RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: truebritmega on Sunday 25 July 10 15:29 BST (UK)
-
got an odd one here... Ive been looking into my 4x great uncle Edmund Heeley of Birmingham lately, and as i have... i cam up across something else while generally searching his name...
I found out that his niece... was at the Ashover Burglary in, well, Ashover lol (she escaped through a window and went for help) she was there.. as Rev Joseph Nodder was also her Uncle... and this is my question lol...
"what was the family tie" ? (hopes that makes sense)
the place burgled, was Marsh Green House... are there any photos online of the house? and of ashover rectory?... does Marsh Green House still even exist?
Hope someone can help :)
-
oops I forgot to add.. the niece was Marianne Heeley (tho the newspaper article that mentions her name types it as ...Marriane
-
Theres a Marsh Green Hall, is that the one? 2nd row down, last one on right
http://www.caudwellandco.com/previously-sold-properties.php
-
well done Cat!! (nice seeing you again, youve helped me somewhere else too lol )... now if only I can see why, how.. there related LOL
-
and yes, i kept searching and yes, it did become called hall instead of house
-
What sort of dates are we talking?
When was this burglary when Marianne had an Uncle Edmund Heeley and an Uncle Joseph Nodder?
-
1857, theres a few articles online about it, poor Miss Healey suffered with "nervous excitment" and an injured spine after leaping from a window half naked to escape!
-
http://www.ashover.org/robbery.htm
I'm intrigued how they are related too, but my sub to ancestrys run out and not renewed it yet, so difficult to trace the people. When's Mariannes dob/place of birth?
-
Thanks
She seems to be there in 1851 - described as a visitor
HO107 2147 7 7
age 12 then, bn Stone in Staffs.
-
Marianne I know nothing of, but edmund was 1799 - 1871 birmingham... I found the ashover robbery at..
http://books.google.com/books?id=l1ADAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=Heeley&f=false
on page 681
I never knew about the hodders either edmund was a businessman in Birmingham
ty Liz for the 1851 one.. does it say who her parents were?
in the link i sent, it has a letter there that was in a newspaper, to edmund from marianne, telling him of the burglary etc
-
Here is the full 1851 if you havent got access
Ashover
Rev Joseph Nodder 61 rector Ashover bn Chesterfield
Mary Ann wife 34 bn Chesterfield
Mary Ann Heeley 12 visitor bn Staff Stone
+ servants
I see in in 1871 that Joseph and Mary Ann had a child Jemima (think she was 4 or s/thing in 1871, havent still got it on screen), but they are still in Ashover so easy to find.
I wonder if MAry Ann (Marrianne) is a niece of Mrs Nodder? I canr find Joseph's marriage to Mary Ann at all to see her maiden name.
I cant see Joseph in 1841 though there is an elderly Jemima Nodder in Ashover that I wonder is linked, given the name he chooses for his surprise daughter in his 70's!
-
Mary Ann Fletcher I think? -
http://www.rotherhamweb.co.uk/genealogy/nodder.htm
-
hmmm i wonder...
no the newspaper piece mentions both mr and mrs hodder, but says that marianne was niece to "Mr" Hodder...
I was just thinking tho (off the top of my head lol )
I have a "Marion" Heeley... in my tree... looks for it.. no my marion was an 1882 birth.. however...
the Uncle, Edmund... his wife is also Mary Anny... his sister... is marion... and his mother.. was... "Marianne" so the name marianne was previously used in the family too
hmmm
-
The marriage for Joseph and Mary Ann/e was, I think, in Bromsgrove June 1847 Vol 18 Page 338
-
On familysearch theres the christening of a Mary Anne Heeley to Joseph Heeley and Catherine Caroline in 1838, St Michaels, Stone, Staffordshire
Marriage in 1825 to Catherine Caroline FLETCHER
(14/04/1825 Chesterfield)
-
Parents George and Caroline Fletcher (b. 1799) so sister to Mary Ann Fletcher
-
Marriage?
George Fletcher to Caroline Venour 24/05/1798 Halford Warwick
Does this mean she was previously engaged to another man, Walter Landor?
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=187-l6&cid=2-1-76-21#2-1-76-21
-
cat? if you were here id kiss ya!!!!!! you only gone n did it!! LOL
I know nothing really of edmunds brothers and sisters, except there names...
but, Joseph Heeley is... Edmunds brother! born 1801 (I just checked my tree!) so the marriage of him to catherine caroline (or was it caroline catherine LOL) fits perfectly!!! well done!! you found the tie!!!... i'll have a propper read of the details again in the morn, but yup you did it!!!!
THANK YOU SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!! i dont think id have managed that on my own...
THANK YOU!!!!
And the marriage being in chesterfield, thats the same area as ashover, im sure... cos I been looking at ashover today and im sure chesterfield was close
and as to the newspaper calling her marriane heeley, well if she is mary ann, thats uderstandable, and maybe, as there appears to be so many mary anns in the amily, maybe they called her marriane to distinguish her from the others? :)
-
Family search, mary jane fletcher married to joseph nodder, 1847... Joseph Nodders parents, John Nodder and Jemima Fidler
-
(on an offshoot, just found a lovely address while searching names...Pudding Bag Lane, aint that nice? lol )
-
Glad you got the family sorted, they seem to be quite well documented online, you got quite a notable family there I think with the Bournes/Nodders, Fidlers, Heeleys and Venours!
Best Wishes
Cat :)
ps. like the Pudding Bag Lane, very quaint :)
-
well, I still have a lot to find... its the edmund side ive been working on, I know the names.. of his other brothers and sisters, but nothing more...
They are..
Henrietta Heeley, she is the one I do know for shes my 4x great gran...
Penelope Heeley 1788 walsall
Carolina Heeley (isnt that a lovely name) 1790 Walsall
Eleanor Heeley 1801 (she was a big family that moved on thru new york and and and)
Joseph Heeley,1801 whom i knew nothing of till we found all that out now
Alfred Heeley 1803 walsall
Harriet Heeley 1806
Thomas Heeley 1810... I know nothing else about him except that he died in Fisherton, Delamer, Wills Co. England in 1892...
back to our current search tho... do we know, can we see a birth for Mary Ann Fletcher? I couldnt find one for her, and where did you see the parents names of george and caroline?
-
and while we're here lol there is something else im trying to work out...
Edmund.. was as i said, a businessman in Birmingham,"Edmund Heeley & Co" jeweller, wholesaler and and and... (I have another thread somewhere on here about that too)...and he is the Heeley in "Harris Heeley &Co"
But there is another big heeley, James Heeley of "James Heeley & Sons" and "Heeley & Sons" (Birmingham)
Well Edmund and James seem to sell identical goods, there trade ads are more or less the same details too, I am 99% sure they are family, but how, I havent a clue.... any ideas?
-
Rev. Joseph Nodder, rector of Ashover Parish Derbyshire, from 1835 to 1878 married in 1847 to Mary Anne Fletcher(1817-1895), daughter of a Chesterfield physician, Dr. George Fletcher.
(fuller details at the lower part of this page... http://www.rotherhamweb.co.uk/genealogy/nodder.htm )
-
and as to your earlier part, about caroline venour, release to walter landor...
it looks like that is caroline... being the one sorting her fathers will I think? because it says...
Release from Caroline Venour of Halford, spinster, to Walter Landor of Warwick, doctor of physic, and another, >>>>"of her claims under the marriage settlement of John Venour of Kingsmead in Wellesbourne Hastings, esq., deceased, her father,"<<<< upon receipt of £218. 19s. 4d.
and another piece I jsut found says...
Release, being a receipt from Caroline Venour, one of the daughters of John Venour of Kingsmead in Wellesbourne Hastings, esq., to the Rev. John Venour, her brother, for £513. 17s. 10d received under the will of the said John Venour.
So we now know her father too !John Venour and her brother is a Rev John Venour (lot of revs in this family? LOL)
and a side thing... on the page with all the Nodder stuff (the rotherham page) it mentions a John Nodder b1840 was an electoplater in 1881 working in sheffield... well Edmund Heeley was also an electro plater and also had another business in Sheffield
-
back to our current search tho... do we know, can we see a birth for Mary Ann Fletcher? I couldnt find one for her, and where did you see the parents names of george and caroline?
IGI has -
Catharine Caroline Fletcher chr. 1799
George Harwood Fletcher chr. 1800
John Venour Fletcher chr. 1802
Walter Fletcher chr. 1803
Sophia Fletcher chr. 1804
Maria Selena Fletcher chr. 1805
William Fletcher Chr. 1807
Ralph Fletcher chr. 1815
Mary Anne Fletcher chr. 1817
All christened in Chesterfield, parents George and Caroline Fletcher
Would this fit by dates?
-
MONUMENTAL INSCRIPTIONS AT CHESTERFIELD. 299
DEAKIN, John. 17 July, 1812. 82.
DOWKER, Thomas, Alderman. 1701. 72.
FERNEL, John Burgoyne. 9 Oct., 1789. 39.
Betty, his wife. 4 Feb., 1797. 47.
Elizabeth, her daughter. 7 April, 18 14. i.
FLETCHER, Sophia, daughter of G. Fletcher, M.D., and Ralf. 1837.
■ G., M.D. 2 Nov., 1843. 74 ; also Caroline, his wife, daughter
of John Venour, Esq., of Willsbourn. 17 Oct., 1837.
from www.archive.org (The feudal history of the county of Derby)
-
Penelope Heeley 1788 walsall
Looks like she married Joseph Smallwood according to IGI and had children -
Caroline, John, Hellen, Mary, Addelin, Joseph and "Arrietta"
-
Re: James Heeley, is he the one who in 1881 is listed as sister in law of Clara Parks at White Lodge, East Molesey, Surrey?
Christening?
James Heely chr. 28/02/1837 Parents James and Sophia
Marriage in 1830 for a James Heeley and Sophia Hudson
James Heeley's marriage?
December 1868 Aston 6d 418
One fo the brides is Catherine Jane Parkes
-
1815
Heeley James, manufacturer of steel watch chains, keys,seals, beads, buckles, buttons, purses, purse springs,&c. Great Charles-street
1823
Heeley James, steel toy maker, 146, Gt. Charles-street
1829
Heeley James, light steel toy manufacturer,146, Gt.Chas.-st.Resid.Haper's-hill
1833
Heeley James and Sons, steel and gilt toy manufacturers, 146 and 147, Gt.-
Charles-street
Heeley James and Sons, inventors and manufacturers of the Rhadiographic
and Polychronographic Pens, also of the ever-pointed pen and pencil-case,
146 and 147, Great Charles-st.
Heeley James and Sons, manufacturers of patent and common cast tacks,
coffin nails and pins, 146 and 147,Gt. Charles-st.—Residence of Mr. Clement
Heeley, 1, Camden-place, Harper's-hill, and of Mr. Francis Heeley, 2, Camden-place, Harper's-hill
1855
Heeley James and Sons, mnfrs. of improved trousers straps, Screw letter files, steel
toys, snuffers, cork screws, boot hooks,key rings, steel pens, silver ever pointed
pencil cases, British plate forks, spoons,ladles, &c., Mount st and Graham st
1858
Heeley James., jeweller; homeRosehill, Handsworth
Heeley James and Sons, manufacturers of fine steel articles, dress swords, hatchets,
buttons, snuffers, corkscrews, boothooks,nutcracks, keyrings, patent boot studs ,
candlesprings, pens, etc., Also malleable iron casters, manufacturers of slating nails, hobs, jacks, coffin nails, pins, &c,73, Graham at, and 24 and 25, Vittoria st
1862
Heeley James & sons, manuf. of fine steel toys, 73 Graham St
Heeley Francis (James Heeley & Sons) park road, handsworth
-
see, the adverts show they sell more or less the same articles
-
and heres my thread on the birmingham history forum about the edmund heeley/ james heeley lol
http://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=31986
-
Blimey! How much to read?! :)
I see on the IGI there are christenings of a Francis (1803) and James (1799) Heeley to parents James and Mary
Have you traced John Heeley's birth? Could John be brother to James, the father of James and Francis?
This is getting confusing! :-\
Anyway got to go put the kids to bed and watch WDYTYA
Cat
-
awwww lol no I havent .. not yet, but now you see how I feel lol, Ive been bombarded w soooooooooooooooo much lately, actually, till about a week back, I hadnt touched the Heeley line in a long while... then someone replied to an old post of mine, and since then BAM!! lol
And Ive seen so many heeleys listed here and there, but there was one (I havent saved it tho, typical huh?) I did see one James in birmingham,,, who had a francis and a clement I think.. as sons... James.. and that James had a father of John....
Well Edmunds father and grandfather were both Johns, but not much is known of them...
but yes lol confusing... but I am sure... Edmund, and James... are related... but how LOL
-
there is also a Clement Heeley in the IGI...
26 JUN 1797 Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick, England
also, to James and Mary
This would also make all 3 of them "around" Edmunds age.. (Edmund was 1799)
hmm
(and yes, I watched WDYTYA... must admit I didnt enjoy tonights, and that actor fella irritated the heck outta me lol , last weeks was 110% better w good ol Brucie LOL)
-
and, Ive just confirmed out Mary Ann Heeley is the Marriane in the newspaper...
for by accident Ive found her in the igi 1881...
Mary Anne NODDER Head W Female 64 Chesterfield, Derby, England Rectors Widow
Mary Anne HEELEY Niece U Female 42 Stowe, Stafford, England School Mistress Principal Of School
That lists her proper name "Mary Anne" and lists her as niece to Mary Anne Nodder :)
-
but hmmm lol where was she actually born?;) (not too important but... lol ) cos that says born "Stowe" Staffordshire..., but her christening is "Stone" (there about 10 miles apart so doesnt really matter, but does make you go hmm? lol )
-
Yes Rupert Everett was rather annoying, I think a lot of people thought so, going on the thread on here about last nights WDYTYA.
Good Luck with unravelling your Heeleys! I'm lost! Have you tried looking for wills to see if that helps?
Cat :)
-
awwww i'll help re un ravel the heeleys etc for you later (cos ive discovered your a usefull ally in searching for them heheheeh)
gives you a big ol hug for all youve done so far! I truly do appreciate it :)
-
You're welcome, glad I could help a little, I really must renew my ancestry subscription though, I'm lost without it, maybe then I can do something more on my own family too, although I seem to be more interested in other peoples ancestors at the moment (probably cos theres only me an my dad bothered with it all, everyone else just yawns!) :)
Regards
Cat :)
-
Ive been trying to renew mine just, grrrrr!! I keep puttin all my details in, and when it goes to the final page, it keeps taking me back.. it keeps re setting my city to another one from what ive put in n tellin me itsa wrong!! GRRRR it keeps tellin me im in Aberdeen!! LOL
And you have, youve helped a lot :) (might make you an honorary family member if ya like ;) )...
As to wills.. I have just found that Edmund did have one, and his daughter is mentioned in it in a result froma national archives search...
Hopefully this link to it works?
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=143-ms_167&cid=3&kw=Birmingham%20City%20Archives#3
-
Hi
Keep up the good work. I also came across that article about the niece and was trying to place her in the family tree. Now problem solved! Many thanks to all.
I also found Edmund's will. Are we able to get a copy of it from the national archives.
-
Yes the link works fine, not sure about getting a copy of the will, think you have to go yourself or get someone to go for you, but if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct you, not had any dealings with TNA personally before (I paid a researcher to find some military records for me a few years ago)
Regards
Cat :)
ps. you got your sub renewed yet? mine went through fine, just went to "my account" and then ticked the ancestry essentials box and "upgrade"
-
grrrr ive been trying to find the birth of George Fletcher and cant find it!! apparently he was the son of a Walter R Fletcher of Derby