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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex Lookup Requests => Essex => England => Essex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Hlfuller on Tuesday 27 July 10 23:28 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am trying to research my grandparents family trees forthwith golden wedding anniversary.
On my Pannell line I have discovered Charles Pannell. He married Susan in Castle Hedingham but he was of the Sible Hedingham parish. I can't did birth or death records as it is pre 1837. I believe he was born in 1813 from scraps of information I have put together. Can anyone help me find Charles and hopefully the name of his parents. This way, I can keep delving for my grandparents!
Thank you very much :-)
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
According to the 1851 census - Charles was b Castle Hedingham 1813
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Is this the same Charles Pannell (widower) who married Sarah Ward in Castle Hedingham 1856? The ages seem to tally - if so, his father was Thomas Pannell.
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I don't think so - that Charles was b Sible Hedingham per 1861 and was married to Elizabeth in 1851
1861 is mis-transcribed as PARMELE RG9 Piece 1112 Folio 63 Page 3
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Can't seem to find Charles and Elizabeth in the 1851 - can you let me know the details please?
Thanks.
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Possible deaths
Susan Pannell Sept qtr 1855 Halstead 4a 187
Charles Pannel December qtr 1857 Halstead 4a 223 OR Charles Pannel June qtr 1858 Halstead 4a 202
I think this next one is the Charles who re-married in 1856
Charles Pannell aged 52 eptember qtr 1866 Halstead 4a 241
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Can't seem to find Charles and Elizabeth in the 1851 - can you let me know the details please?
Indexed as PAMPLIN HO107 Piece 1784 Folio 415 Page 10
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Indexed as PAMPLIN HO107 Piece 1784 Folio 415 Page 10
I don't think so. Charles Pamplin, Elizabeth and family are in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census, so this is not Charles Pannell and family.
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Hello Hlfuller
Welcome to rootschat :)
A Charles Pannell married in Halstead R.D (includes Castle Hedingham) in 1845 but.....
You need to work backwards in time and logic tells me that if its your grandparents 50th wedding anniversary you are relatively young, so your great grandparents were not born anywhere near 1813 so who are your great grandparents?
1861 census
70 Guards Club, Pall Mall, St James Westminster, London, Middx
Isaac Pennell.....servant...22 (unm)...servant domestic...Castle Heddingham, Essex
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1861
Alfred Pannell aged 26 is a domestic servant at Bath, Somersetshire
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1851
Back Lane, Castle Hedingham, Halstead, Essex
Charles Pannell.......head.....38......ag lab.................Castle Hedingham, Essex
Susan........"............wife.......44............................................"
Alfred.........".............son.......17......ag lab............................"
John...........".............son.......15......ag lab............................"
Ann............".............daur......13............................................"
Isaac........."..............son.......11..........................................." (born Dec qtr 1838, Halstead R.D)
Eleanor......".............daur.......9............................................" (born Mar qtr 1842 Halstead R.D)
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1841
Back Lane, Castle Hedingham, Halstead, Essex
Susannah Pannel...35............................................Essex
Alfred.............".........8............................................Essex
John.............."..........5............................................Essex
Ann................".........3............................................Essex
Lydia Norden..........20............................................Essex
Isaac Pannel............2.............................................Essex
Julia Pannel................1.............................................Essex
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1856
a Charles Pannel married a Sarah Ward...Halstead R.D
Bryant
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Thank you for all of your replies. No, Charles def isn't my gread grandfather lol I must have been making anpother dry eyeball post from going through so many bits of info again.
Charles is 4xGreat Grandfather. My great grandfather is Henry pannell 1907-2000. All the bits in between him and Charles are filled in (I think!) it is just that I have hit a wall with poor Charles!
I have all of the dates in my research that match those which you have all kindly given me, including all of his children. I am a bit confused that he would have remarried as a widower as I have Susan's (Basham/Batch conflicting) death date as 1879. Perhaps I should look at this again.
Does all of this lead me to any directions towards his mother and fathers names? I have tried to the point of pulling my hair out now!
Thakns again for the help and for the warm welcome. Its a daunting task being 25 and having grandparents that often struggle to remember last week let alone the last few decades!
It is much appreciated
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I just looked at freeBMD and no Susan Pannell died in Halstead reg dist in 1879. There's deaths of a Susan Pannell in 1855, Susannah in 1860, Susan in 1884 age 45 and Susan J in 1913 age 73.
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Ahha so maybe he did remarry then. That would fit with one of the dates if he decided to remarry in 1856 (although he wouldnt have wasted much time!)
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Have you located your G Grandfather Henry in the 1911 census? If he is with Charles and Sarah then you will know it's the Charles that remarried, therefore his father would be Thomas. I can then look through the parish records for Sible Hedingham and find the marriage of Thomas to find out his wife's name.
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Im not sure Ive been saying it right...hang on
My ggf Henry Pannell 1907-2000
His father was Henry J pannell 1873-?
His Father was Alfred Pannell 1834-1881
His Father was the Charles we are speaking of 1813-1866
Hope that gets it all a bit more clearer than soup lol!
Sorry if Ive been a pain and said it wrong
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No, it's ok, it's me having a senior moment.
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Hehehe no sweat im just greatful for the help...Il be bald for the presentation of the findings at this rate lol
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I'll have a look for the baptism of Charles in the pr's for Sible Hedingham and get back to you.
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Hlfuller
Its time to start again....According to my database no Henry Pannell died in 2000?
The only Henry Pannell born in 1907 is Henry Frederick Pannell born Jun qtr of 1907 Lambeth R.D (London)
1901
34 Vauxhall Street, Lambeth
Henry J Pannell...head...27.....carman.....Lambeth
Lydia........".........wife.....26.........................."
George.....".........son......25 days................."
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1899
Dec qtr, St Saviour R.D (London)
Henry John Pannell married Lydia Eliza Bignell
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1875
Mar qtr, Lambeth R.D
Lydia Eliza Bignell is born
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Bryant
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Yes that's him although you won't have a record of his death as he emigrated to Australia in the late 80s I believe and his death certificate which i have is from Perth in west Australia!
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1881
55 Auckland Street Greengrocers, Lambeth, Surrey
Alfred Pannell......head...47...greengrocer.....Castle Tedingham, Essex
Frances.....".........wife.....40...........................Roxwell, Chelmsford, Essex
Alfred........"..........son.....16..railway porter...Lambeth, Surrey
Albert........"..........son.....15...greengrocers boy......"
Ellen..........".........daur.....12....scholar....................."
Frances....."............."........9..........".........................."
Henry........"..........son.......8..........".........................."
Walter......."............."........1......................................"
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1861
58, Pulteney Street, Bathwick, Bath, Somersetshire
Alfred Pannell.......servant...26 (unm)....domestic servant...Castle Hedingham, Essex
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Bryant
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1851
Back Lane, Castle Hedingham, Essex
Charles Pannell......head...38...ag lab.....Castle Hedingham, Essex
Susan..........".........wife.....44.............................."
Alfred.........."...........son.....17...ag lab................."
John............"...........son.....15...ag lab................."
Ann............."...........daur....13.............................."
Isaac..........."...........son.....11.............................."
Elanor........."...........daur......9.............................."
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Isaac & Lydia Pannell look favourites to be the parents of Charles at this moment in time.....in the 1841 Isaac is 74 and Lydia is 60 living in the Halstead Union
1841
Halstead Union, Back Lane, Castle Hedingham, Essex
Lydia Norden.........20......................................Essex (marries William Argent in 1845)
Isaac Pannell...........2..........................................."
Julia Pannell.............1..........................................."
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1841
Halstead Union, Back Lane, Castle Hedingham, Essex
Susannah Pannell........35......................................Essex
Alfred..............."...........8..........................................."
John................."...........5..........................................."
Ann.................."...........3..........................................."
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Bryant
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Wow fantastic!
Do you the Halstead union would refer to the workhouse there?
Thank you once again
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Halstead Union is an area as far as i'm aware
http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/result_details.asp?DocID=83686
the Essex Society for Family History has members (with email addresses) with an interest in the name Pannell
http://www.esfh.org.uk/amsrun/Interests.php
If Isaac & Lydia are the parents of Charles it is not recorded on the IGI's but as you can see Isaac has a John Pannell aged 20 (20-24) living with him in 1841 and he is not the son of Richard so there are other male children one would think....
Isaac & Lydia Pannell
children
Richard Pannell b.4th Oct 1811, c.30th Apr 1815 Independent, Ridgwell, Essex
Jemima Pannell b.3rd Dec 1814, c.30th Apr 1815.........."................"
1841
Ridgwell, Hedingham, Halstead Union, Essex
Isaac Pannell.....74....ag lab..........Essex
Lydia......."..........60.......................Essex
John........"..........20...ag lab..........Essex
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1841
Ridgwell, Hedingham, Halstead Union, Essex
Richard Pannell.....30....ag lab..........Essex
Elizabeth..."..........35........................Essex
Susannah Argent..15........................Essex
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1841
Ridgwell, Hedingham, Halstead Union, Essex
Henry Smith........20....ag lab..........Essex
Jemima......"........25.......................Essex
Joseph Pannell....4........................Essex
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Bryant
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"Blimey"
Isaac and Lydia are still going in 1851!
Which proves that John is also a son.
1851
Drury Lane, Ridgwell, Hedingham, Halstead, Essex
John Pannell........head.....33.......ag lab.......Ridgwell, Essex
Ann........".............wife......27...straw plaiter........"
Isaac....."............father.....84..parish pauper......"
Lydia......"............mother...74......"........."............"
Elizabeth Kees....Aunt........79 (wid)"......".......Toppesfield, Essex
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Bryant
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I have Isaac Pannell and Lydia in my tree and they didn't have a son Charles as far as I'm aware. All their children were born and baptised in Ridgewell:
Caroline 1798
Allen 1801
Charlotte 1805
Hephzibah 1809
Richard 1811
Jemima 1814
John 1817
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Hmm so yet again its a bit of a mystery.
I was suprised too when I found them on the 1851 census...If I remember Lydia was still about on the 1861 census as well when I had a look!
I will keep digging...Hard work this one!
Thank you again for all your continued help
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Interestingly, Charles named two sons Isaac and John.
Further proof?
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Just thought I would share some news.
Spoke to a lady today who has viewed Charles' marriage certificate through her own research.
It states fathers name as Thomas Pannel.
Lol - shall we try again?! :P
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Wondering how she knows that, as fathers details wouldn't have been on Charles Pannells marriage record to Susan Basham in 1833 as it was before civil registration started. Or does she know that the Charles Pannell who married Sarah Ward in 1856 is the same Charles Pannell?
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It's from the databases marriage
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I had a look through the parish record baptisms in Sible Hedingham for Charles Pannell but I'm afraid I came up with nothing. Sorry!
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Hi I have too been researching the Pannells,
charles Pannell's father was a Thomas Pannell, when Charles married his second wife Sarah Ward, he gave Thomas Pannell as his fathers name, there is no baptism for Charles as Castle Hedingham, but his siblings are baptised there, the only baptism of a Thomas Pannell I can find is at Steeple Bumpstead but I'm not sure if this is right, you can see the early parish registers for Castle & Sible Hedinghams are on the SEAX site. Also if you go to www.castlehedingham.org/parishrecords/index.html someone has transcribed the parish registers which has proved extremely useful,
My partner is the gt gt gandson of Charles Pannell
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My Great Great Great Grand father is Charles Pannell born about 1813 at Castle Hedingham, Essex, England and died about Sep 1866. I am finding two wives, Susan and Elizabeth and many children; Alfred, John, Anne or Ann, Julia, Isaac, Elenor, Emily, and Susannah. I do Ancestry.com as Pannell Family Tree and my name is Robert John Pannell. Look forward to making some batches.