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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: messers on Thursday 05 August 10 21:32 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am really stumped with this man, have been hitting a brick wall with him for 4 years.
If anyone out there can help me I would be very grateful. This is what I know:
William, born in Staines in 1876 or 1879, came to South Africa in 1899. Soon after he was attested in to the BSAP and did service in the Anglo-Boer war and in WW1 (a Lieutenant in German East Africa, now Namibia).
His 1st wife was came to SA in 1907. After she died he married Mabel Mary Crombie nee Cookson.
Major Hoaten was a major in the BSAP (British Police in Rhodesia). By the time he retired, he was said to have been one of the highest ranking officers in the fledging defence forces.
There is a cutting from a Rhodesian newspaper about 1938 that describes the wedding of Mabel daughter with her 1st husband, Mary Elizabeth Crombie to Stuart Clarkson. In it, she is "given away by her step-father Major Hoaten." also "There was no formal reception owing to the health of the brides mother, but some intimate friends motored out to Hillside to the resdent of Captain and Mrs Hough where the cake was cut.. ."
I am more interested in his information before he came to South Africa - his parents, siblings etc.
I have searched for any information on this William Charles Hoaten, but so far nothing has been found. It is almost as if this was a newly created person who did not exist before he came to SA - did he create a new identity or am I not looking in the 'right' places?
Please, if anyone can help me, I would really appreciate it.
Thanks
Michelle
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Was awarded two medals in WW1
Jennifer
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Hi Michelle
From other web postings on your search,
Travel: London to the Cape, SthA 1899
Wm HOATEN b abt 1874
This lists him as occupartion: Saddler age 25
Travel: Southampton to the Cape, SthA 1907
E HOATEN b abt 1886
W HOATEN b abt 1878
Is E HOATEN his first wife?
Then I see:
Durban to UK - Ship Walmer Castle, arrived Southampton on 1 Sep 1906:
Embarked Capetown:
Mr W HOATEN 29, occ: R.S.M. (S.R.V), English born
Ship Kildonan Castle, Durban to Southampton - arrived 15 Jun 1925
William Charles HOATEN 45, Soldier, Rhodesian Bisley Team,
This entry has a line through it - I think because he was "Forces" rather than civilian - and he certainley traveled, because he was competing at Bisley in 1925:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/CORNISH-GEN/2008-05/1210611957
http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/archive/index.php?t-5877.html
1. William HOTTIN - 1881 British Census / Middlesex
Son Gender: Male Birth: <1876> Islington, Middlesex, England
2. William HOOTON - 1881 British Census / Middlesex
Son Gender: Male Birth: <1880> Islington, Middlesex, England
I wonder - if he married in that space between Sep 1906 and Dec 1907 when he seems to have been in the UK.
Did the 1899 Travel manifest list his marital status?
Have you looked at the actual 1907 travel manifest - if we have a date of travel, it can narrrow down a timeframe for a possible marriage.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Ambly
E Hoaten was his 1st wife. As with almost any other documentation of him, I have not been able to find a marriage certificate for them - so it is possible he went back in 1906 to get married. ::)
I personally have not looked at any travel manifests, so do not know what his marital status is listed as. ???
Thanks
Michelle
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W and E Hoaten travelled on 12 Jan 1907 from Southampton to South Africa on the German.
He was 29 and a warrant officer.She was 21.
There is a WW1 Medal card in his name,says he served as a Lieutenant in the British South African Police.
Hope that helps
Carol
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Hi
A possible marriage between Sep Qtr 1906 to Mar Qtr 1907 - small window, lots of names if one considers the many ways HOATEN might be alternatively spelled :'(
But one entry stands out for me on FreeBMD
Mar Qtr 1907, Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire
William HOOTON and Elizabeth EVANS
They are also on the Staffs BMD (which confirms they are a pair) - married Shelton St Mark Stoke on Trent.
http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/
Long shot ???
Cheers
AMBLY
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Following in his fathers footsteps ???
1881
7 Gardner Road, Hampstead
Richard HOOTON, head mar 32, Police Constable, born Pembroke, County Town
Sarah HOOTON, wife mar 30, born Herts, Tring
E G HOOTON, son 11, born Middlesex, London
William HOOTON, son 6, born ditto
Frederick HOOTON, son 4, born ditto
Ernest HOOTON, son 3, born ditto
+ 3 boarders
RG11/168/94/30 & 31
Ian C
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Hi
William Hooten is with his parents in Hamptead in 1891. His birthplace is given as Marylebone and he is a telegraph messenger aged 15
Most likely birth registration
Births Sep 1875 Hooton William Henry Pancras 1b 7
If he was a serving officer at the time of his marriage circa 1907 then it may be in the army registers not in the domestic GRO indexes
Regards
Valda
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W and E Hoaten travelled on 12 Jan 1907 from Southampton to South Africa on the German.
He was 29 and a warrant officer.She was 21.
There is a WW1 Medal card in his name,says he served as a Lieutenant in the British South African Police.
Hope that helps
Carol
Thanks for this, each little piece of info helps solve the puzzle. I do know about the medals, thanks
Michelle
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Hi
William Hooten is with his parents in Hamptead in 1891. His birthplace is given as Marylebone and he is a telegraph messenger aged 15
Most likely birth registration
Births Sep 1875 Hooton William Henry Pancras 1b 7
If he was a serving officer at the time of his marriage circa 1907 then it may be in the army registers not in the domestic GRO indexes
Regards
Valda
How does he go from William HENRY to William CHARLES ??? WW1 medals are issued to William C Hoaten. He is known in SA and buried in Rhodesia as William Charles.
Michelle
Michelle
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Hi
A possible marriage between Sep Qtr 1906 to Mar Qtr 1907 - small window, lots of names if one considers the many ways HOATEN might be alternatively spelled :'(
But one entry stands out for me on FreeBMD
Mar Qtr 1907, Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire
William HOOTON and Elizabeth EVANS
They are also on the Staffs BMD (which confirms they are a pair) - married Shelton St Mark Stoke on Trent.
http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/
Long shot ???
Cheers
AMBLY
Long shots sometimes are correct....... I will have to follow the line of Elizabeth Evans and see where that goes. According to information I have, he was born in 1874/1876/1879.... and his wife born about 1886. I wonder if this ties in with the marriage you mention.
What is 'Staffs BMD'?
Thanks
Michelle
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Hi
William Hooten is with his parents in Hamptead in 1891. His birthplace is given as Marylebone and he is a telegraph messenger aged 15
Most likely birth registration
Births Sep 1875 Hooton William Henry Pancras 1b 7
If he was a serving officer at the time of his marriage circa 1907 then it may be in the army registers not in the domestic GRO indexes
Regards
Valda
Not sure about this birth as his WW1 medals are in the name of William Charles and so are all his documents in SA - unless he chagned his middle name on the way to or before he got to SA ???
Any idea how to look for this info in the army registers?
Thanks
Michelle
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Hi
I was indicting with the records of William Henry Hooten that is was unlikely to be the same man - different name, different birthplace
Further information on William Henry
Marriages Dec 1898
HOOTON William Henry Hampstead 1a 1408
WITHERS Kate Hampstead 1a 1408
On the 1901 census in Marylebone a postman.
A warrant officer is a senior non-commissioned officer usually achieveing officer status through military service. So starting as an ordinary soldier. This man did not serve in the British regular army but the British South African Police.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_South_Africa_Police
http://www.bsap.org/history.html
'The British South Africa Police (BSAP) was the police force of the British South Africa Company (BSAC) of Cecil Rhodes...The organisation was formed by the BSAC in 1889 as a paramilitary, mounted infantry force in order to provide protection for the Pioneer Column of settlers which moved into Mashonaland in 1890....As a paramilitary unit, the BSAP fought in the Second Boer War and in Tanganyika during World War I.'
Other than the medal roll for the First World War I would doubt there would be any records held in this country. and no marriage in the army registers. I would think the BSAP didn't ask too many questions about a man's background.
Staffordshire BMD
http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/
an index created from local registration officers instead of the central index held by the Generla Registry Office.
Regards
Valda
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Hi Valda
It seems that I have been following a dead end as I suspected. Thanks for the info and your help.
Looks like I should follow the
Mar Qtr 1907, Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire
William HOOTON and Elizabeth EVANS
track instead.
Michelle
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Hi
The 1907 marriage was for a William Hooton not a William Charles. Hooton though an unusual surname isn't a rare surname so you would expect to find William Hootons as the London example has demonstrated. This William was enumerated in Stoke on Trent registration district in 1901.
1901 census RG13 2605 folio 146
51 Sandon Street Staffordshire
George Hooton 48 Head Married Labourer for a railway playter Olney Buckinghamshire
Keziah Hooton 47 Wife Married Hanley Staffordshire
Thomas E Hooton 21 Son Labourer for a bricklayer Hanley Staffordshire
William Hooton 19 Son Hanley Staffordshire Labourer for a bricklayer Hanley Staffordshire
Keziah Hooton 8 Daughter Hanley Staffordshire
Have you found William Charles Hoaten's marriage to Mary Mabel? Did it occur in South Africa?
Regards
Valda
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AS Ambly found for you on reply number 2- in 1899 when he sailed out to
NZ he was a saddler- I can't see him being back here two years later and working as a brickie's labourer somehow?
He left London on 5 July 1899 bound for New Zealand on a ship called the MAORI- I wonder if there's any records of what he did when he got there and when he left NZ
Carol
Ooops must have misread that :-[ it should have said Cape,South Africa...sorry
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Hi
Didn't he go to South Africa in 1899 to fight in the Boer War?
Travel: London to the Cape, SthA 1899
Wm HOATEN b abt 1874
This lists him as occupartion: Saddler age 25
Regards
Valda
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Hi
The 1907 marriage was for a William Hooton not a William Charles. Hooton though an unusual surname isn't a rare surname so you would expect to find William Hootons as the London example has demonstrated. This William was enumerated in Stoke on Trent registration district in 1901.
1901 census RG13 2605 folio 146
51 Sandon Street Staffordshire
George Hooton 48 Head Married Labourer for a railway playter Olney Buckinghamshire
Keziah Hooton 47 Wife Married Hanley Staffordshire
Thomas E Hooton 21 Son Labourer for a bricklayer Hanley Staffordshire
William Hooton 19 Son Hanley Staffordshire Labourer for a bricklayer Hanley Staffordshire
Keziah Hooton 8 Daughter Hanley Staffordshire
Have you found William Charles Hoaten's marriage to Mary Mabel? Did it occur in South Africa?
Regards
Valda
Hi Valda
This is not my guy - he was in SA in 1899, went back to UK in 1906 and returned in 1907 with wife E(Elizabeth). Thanks for the info.
No marriage cert to Mabel Mary - they were married in Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) who have nothing online and the government has made it almost impossible to get information from Zim. Probably have to wait for Robert Mugabe to die before any records are readily available .......
Michelle
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Hi
Didn't he go to South Africa in 1899 to fight in the Boer War?
Travel: London to the Cape, SthA 1899
Wm HOATEN b abt 1874
This lists him as occupartion: Saddler age 25
Regards
Valda
Yes sorry - I had two pages open at once and mixed the two up :-[
He sailed to South Africa on 5th July 1899 and his occupation was a saddler.
I'm off for a coffee.......might wake me up a bit ;)
Carol