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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Tu2Tu on Monday 09 August 10 10:22 BST (UK)
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Looking for help with a grave look-up in Dunkerque, France please if anyone can point me in the right direction.
Name: John McGowan
Died: 21.12.1919
Place: Dunkerque Harbour, Northern France
Much appreciated
Many thanks
Tu
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Hello Tu,
Have you got any more information?
Are we definitely looking for a military death?
I can't see anyone on CWGC that matches for 1919.
Phil
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Hi Phil,
Many thanks for the post.
I can confirm that he died on 21.12.1919.
I can confirm that he was a Bos'an on the S.S. Ellington.
I can confirm that his rank was higher that of an Extra Master Mariner.
His family were all Merchant Mariners, so I am presuming he was also a Merchant Mariner.
Whether the Ellington was engaged in WW1 or not I dont know
Some records show the Ellington to have sunk in 1918 - perhaps just damaged.
Where he was burried I dont know.
Whether the Ellington is the Wellington, I dont know.
Does this help?
Tu
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Phil, should add cause of death was drowning.
It has been presumed by family for generations, that he was active in WW1, so I am presuming that yes it is a military death.
Tu
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On the basis of the limited information you have at the moment I wouldn't have thought this could be classified as a military death as it appears he wasn't serving with the armed forces at the date of death and even as a Merchant seaman he would not be commemorated by the CWGC as his death was not due to enemy action.
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Thanks Imber for your informative post,
I had actually posted this thread on the general France board, requesting assistance with a burial look-up, (see first post). It was then moved to the special interest/armed forces board by roots chat.
Although he was active during WW1, I agree it would appear that his death was not due to enemy action, but I would like to know what happened and where he is burried.
Many thanks
Tu
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An update on my search for the burial place of John McGowan.
Having sourced John McGowans death record, I find that the vessel on which he was crew at the time of his death was the s.s. ELLOUGHTON and not the s.s. Ellington as reported on the french civil register. His last known address was listed as Bute Road Cardiff - which is close to the dock area of Cardiff. The ships official number was 142761. Iv also found a photograph. Can anyone enlighten me as to where I can find a ships log for this vessel/trip as it is not available in Newfoundland - in the hope of eventually finding the burial place of his body.
Many thanks
Tu
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Was he born in Cardiff? There are several men of that name on the WW1 medal list, but none were born in Cardiff.
The National Archive has no ships logs for this vessel. It has crew lists but only from 1928. If 'Newfoundland' does not have what you want then you should assume it no longer exists. Was 'Dunkirk harbour' the place of death or where his death was recorded? It may help to look in the local newspapers for Cardiff as his death is likely to have been reported on.
If his body was recovered he is likely to be buried in Dunkirk. If he was non Catholic there cannot be many churches to choose from. If RC it is likely to be the one nearest to the docks.
Ken
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This page on the NMM site tells you how to find ships' logs.
http://www.rmg.co.uk/researchers/library/research-guides/the-merchant-navy/tracing-people-crewlists-agreements-logs
For Dunkirk you might find a post on the relevant forum (check the Département) might gain you some help; from experience there it's best to post in French. See www.genealogie.com
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Hi Ken,
The s.s. Elloughton was berthed at Dunkirk, ready to depart when at 8.30am on the 22nd (not the 21st) he slipped from the gangplank into the water. His body was recovered on 23rd December at 3am and brought by 4 police men to the Town Hall which was the civic headquarters for Dunkirk. His place of death was Dunkirk Harbour.
He was Irish, born in Co. Sligo in 1884. At that time though they were referred to as 'British Sligo'.
Because Bute Road is close to the dock area, I assume this was a lodging house he used in-between trips. He was resident in Co. Sligo, Ireland. His RS2 No. was 377173. He had been issued with the British Medal/Ribbon and Mercantile Marine Medal/Ribbon, in September 1919.
Iv had help on the ground in Dunkirk to find his grave there without success. Ill check with the closest RC church and see what happens.
Thanks for advice
Tu
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Hi Graham,
Thanks for the link. It leads me to the Maritime History Archive in Newfoundland which I have searched for the ships log without success.
The owner of the Elloughton at the time was Gooldun Shipping Co. London.
She was sold on 1.1.1920 (8 days after his death) to J. Pridmore & A.E. Roe, London.
As she was registered in England I was hoping that the log would still be accessible
Ill have a look at the french site you mention thanks again,
Tu.
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Hi, my first post here. John McGowan is an ancestor of mine too. I've always thought he must have been buried in France, since if the body had been returned to Sligo, he would probably have been buried in Drumcliffe in the grave with two of his siblings who had died in 1890. But it sounds like it's proving elusive.
On the photo thread I saw the query about his cap badge. I have in my notes that he was a captain with the Yeoward Brothers shipping line. It looks maybe on the badge are the letters Y.B. plus the distinctive stripe of the Yeoward Brothers [changed to Yeoward Line in 1920].
Joseph and Rosanna of Rose Cottage are my great-grandparents too. My grandmother is Bedelia Josephine (Delia) McGowan, born 1886 - and a sister to Katie, born 1890, - your grandmother? [am I right, tu?]. We must be kindred spirits!
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Hi Joee - Welcome to Rootschat ;D
Tu has not posted on here for a while but perhaps will come back if the notification of your reply to the post reaches the right e-mail.
In the meantime - why not take a look around the site - there are lots of interesting threads to read and some very helpful people.
Milly
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Hi Josephine,
Lovely to connect with you on roots chat - you must be on Aunty Baby's side !
Are you Peter & Margarets daughter???
Yes Katie is my grandmother.
I can PM (private message) you but you must post 2 more times to activate it, as I cant leave an email address here. Looking forward to hearing from you !
Tu
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Thanks for the welcome milly - there looks much to interest here, once I have found my way around the numerous threads.
Tu, good to hear from you - I was browsing the internet for a picture of the Elloughton 142761 which led me to your query on here! I shall contact you. The only extra information on the ship I have [not really helpful for finding the location of the grave] was from the coasters-remembered.
net site.
Totally random and very much a long-shot, I came across an article about a Welsh sailor who died in Dunkirk in December 1918, and who was buried in the Cemetery of Petite-Synthe in the middle of Dunkirk. Could this be a possible resting-place for John McGowan?
May I ask - were your sources for the actual incident and the medals awarded, from The National Archives? Definitely on my 'to visit' list.
I guess you will already have come across the Merchant Navy I.D. Card for John [and his brother James] from FindMyPast. A great source for providing a photo & some personal details [including interesting tattoo!]. Unfortunately it is just stamped 'Cancelled' with no clue as to his burial site though.