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Independent Islands => Isle of Man => Topic started by: Johann Claassen on Saturday 21 August 10 14:00 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
I am new to this forum.
I do hope that there is someone out there who could help me with my problem.
My grandfather, Henry John WATERSON was born here in South Africa(most probably in Mossel Bay)on 23.3.1900 and died in Mossel Bay on 15.91959. He married Petronella Hendrina POZYN in Mossel Bay c. 1930.
They had the following children: (from the eldest to the youngest)
Isabella Jacomina
Joan Elizabeth
Edward John
Mona Marjorie(my deceased mother)
Maureen
Eileen
Jeanet
Henry John
Norma
Eric
Alen
Edward
I have been doing research on my family for the best part of eight years but had no success in finding the parents of my grandfather, Henry John WATERSON. Although some of my mother's sibblings are still alive, they also have no clue on this very important question.
I have checked all the Parish records and our National Archives here in South Africa - nothing!
If I look at the name- and surname combination of my grandfather and the names of my uncles and aunts, it keeps pointing to the databases of Isle of Man.
Any help will be appreciated.
Thank you
Johann
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Hello Johann
Have checked through the Isle of Man, white pages residential phone directory and have found only three "Waterson" surnames, in the directory, for this year.
Two are in Douglas........initials, addresses and numbers for all three.
Would you like for me to possibly phone them to see if they can be of any help?
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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Yes, please but only if it will make no impact on your telephone bill...:)
Thanks Danchaslyn!
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watterson is n extremely commo manx name - if you look at my pages on www.manxnotebook.com/mquart/mq17032.htm you will see many Manx names in Transvaal for example
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Thank you Frances. Yes, your site is on my favourites tab. I am sure I will find all the right stuff there but firstly I must make a connection between my GD and his dad. I went through the wills and there are so many resemblances(sp?). Kind regards. Johann
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Hello Johann Claassen
Sorry, have been away for a couple of days, returned to-night, have many plans to-morrow, but will, with pleasure, do the phone calls, probably on Thursday.
Fingers crossed until then!
Alles van die beste
Danchaslyn
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Thank you so much for all your trouble.
Geniet jou dag!
Best wishes
Johann
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Hello Johann Claassen
This evening I've phoned the first number and have already been given the telephone number of someone else who can possibly help.
Encouragingly, this particular Waterson family on the Isle of Man, have "Eileen" and "Isabella" as family names.
I'm told that your particular spelling of Waterson is a rarity, i.e. with one 't', not two.
I was told that in Braddon, there's a monument to the "Waterson Family", in the Square.
Some other personal details I'll send to privately.
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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Whopeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!! You are a star! It sounds nice - real nice!
Thank you so much for your efforts.
Groetnis.
Johann
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Thank you, Johann
We'll get there in the end! I'll phone the number I've been given sometime to-morrow, during the day.
Hope your passports are up to date?!!
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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Hello Johann
Have had a very interesting phone chat to the cousin of the lady I spoke to last night on the Isle of Man.
She's very keen to assist and has given me various details of Waterson family members, going back as far as her Grandfather. One Great Great Uncle went to Mexico!
And, she mentioned that about 10 years ago, an aunt visited her old school at Castle Town on IOM, which had been turned into a museum, and that there, she viewed, on the wall, an actual Waterson Family Tree!
I'll try and trace this museum for you.
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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Hello Johann
The Leece Museum, at Peel. I'll send you the contact details privately.
It was established in 1984, by Mr T E (Eddie) Leece, a retired headmaster of the Peel Clothworkers School, and formerly a town commissioner, and Mr Quayle, who acted as Curator of the Museum for 15 years.
During 2000 it was relocated to the Old Courthouse Building.
They have a full family history archives and specialise in helping folk trace their Manx families!
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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Thank you Danchaslyn for all the trouble you are going through.
You did a splendid job so far!
Kind regards
Johann
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I presume you have tried - http://www.isle-of-man.com/cgi-bin/interests/genealogy/bulletin/index.pl?noframes - main manx genealogy site - the Leece museum does not have major holdings in fam history it has a good collection of photos etc esp relating to the fishing industry (I live in Peel about 50% of time) - these are at the Manx Museum and at the IoMFHSoc library also in peel - www.iomfhs.im - the display trees are almost certainly part of the collection of the IoMFHSoc which are brought out for exhibitions etc - join the IoMFHSoc and get their help might be best
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Hi Frances_mnb
Unfortunately on the Manx Genealogy, I can find no references to any Waterson Family. Perhaps Johann Claassen in his search might find something of interest.
Maybe though the Manx DNA Project might be a possible route to pursue?
On the IOM Family History Society Forums, there is one reference to a "Waterson Marriage", i.e. Phillip Cain, to Catherine Waterson, at Kirk Braddan, 1854.
As per my post of yesterday, 19.35:21, a member of the Waterson family herself, viewed the Waterson Family Tree, on the wall of her old school, which had been converted into a family history museum.
Hopefully Johann Claassen will be able to obtain directly from the IOM Family History Society some wonderful help with his quest.
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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Obviously I was not party to your conversation but no old school in Castletown is a fam history museum - I suspect your informant with the best will in the world has confused the Leece Museum in Peel with the IoM Fam Hist library also there (but not at same site) - the very old school (not been used as a school for several decades) is part of the Manx National Heritage sites (look under Castletown churches on www.manxnotebook.com for old grammar school - there was the annual IoM Fam Hist soc exhibition last year in Castletown (it moves around the 4 main towns) held if I recall correctly in the High School (modern) which would have displays - Waterson was the old form of the name mostly replaced by watterson these days (upto mas literacy in late 19th C the spelling was due to parish clerk not the individuals)
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Hello Johann
Have had a very interesting phone chat to the cousin of the lady I spoke to last night on the Isle of Man.
She's very keen to assist and has given me various details of Waterson family members, going back as far as her Grandfather. One Great Great Uncle went to Mexico!
And, she mentioned that about 10 years ago, an aunt visited her old school at Castle Town on IOM, which had been turned into a museum, and that there, she viewed, on the wall, an actual Waterson Family Tree!
I'll try and trace this museum for you.
Cheers
Danchaslyn
Maybe, Frances-mnb you can assist by advising Johann Claassen which 'old school in Castle Town', about 10 years ago was visited by my 'informant', and had according to her been turned into a permanent museum?
Also, as per my Reply No 7, have you knowledge of the 'monument at Braddan, which has Waterson names on it'?
And, this particular family, to this day, have the unusual, original spelling of the surname 'Waterson", it has not changed.
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Hello Johann Claassen
On Findmypast.co.uk on the Migration Records, four various "Waterson" passengers departed either from London, or Southampton, for Durban, South Africa. Birth ages vary between 1861 - 1884.
On same site, between 1895 -96, six various "Waterson" passengers, departed from London, or Southampton, bound for The Cape, South Africa.
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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old school - www.manxnotebook.com/parishes/ca/casltwn.htm
Braddan - can't make sense - there are two main yards Braddan old + new (again look up on Manxnotebook) but no Waterson memorial I can recall - if he asks on famhist site for look up on name for any MI light might be shone on this - I can't think of any other monument - Braddan as a specific village doesn't exist it is the name of the parish to west of Douglas - the Island has very few statues or other public memorials - the war memorial for Braddan is not significant (again illustrated on ManxNotebook)
It could well be that the name was recorded with the one t and it stuck - try the 1881 census and I can see only 3 fams + some individuals with this spelling
should add the manx pronounciation is nearer What_ter son - whereas waterson to english ears would be water son
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Hello Johann Claassen
On the 1891 Census for the Isle of Man, there are 20 individuals listed with the surname with the correct spelling of Waterson.
One, Henry Waterson, b. 1877, age 14 years was not at home in the Household, he was at 'Vessel'.
Could this be your Great Grandfather, father of Grandfather Henry Waterson, bound for Mossel Bay, South Africa?
Beste Groete
Danchaslyn
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Hello Johann Claassen
By the Census for Isle of Man, 1901, Henry Waterson, who would by this time obviously be aged 24 years, is no longer listed.
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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vessel means recorded on board a boat - most likely a fisherman (young boys were the cooks!) - he is most likely the gson Henry WaTTerson at No 1 Lake Lane Peel in 1881 - household of fishermen or trades related to boats - gfa Patk + cath - patk is probably s/o Patk + jane Kelly - 1841 a joiner which fits in with trade(spar maker) in 1881 (can't locate him on 1851) - Cath is prob Cath quayle m Patrick 18450607
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Hello Frances_mnb
That's very interesting that on IOM members of households, for Census purposes were listed as being 'Vessel' if away on a fishing boat. Previously that hasn't been my experience for Censuses in the UK.
Wonder why Henry Waterson of the 1891 IOM Census is no longer on the Island by the Census of 1901?
For Johann Claassen to find his Great Grandfather Waterson and ancestors of the IOM, as the records kept in Mossel Bay are so scant, I believe to crack it, someone still living on IOM, either connected to Johann Claassen's family, or not, will, from living memory, remember something about a family member who emigrated to South Africa?
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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yes Peel was main fishing port - the Island censuses were important to Island economy as with a common purse re excise duities the island population controlled how much London returned to the Island thus the Island carefully made sure all those fishing (at that time of year at Kinsale Ireland) were included (btw the IoM is not part of England and many things are different) - re family memories - quite possibly though you are now some 4 generations or more back - most who went to SA were miners after the collapse of the Manx lead mining industry (see comments + letters on my site www.manxnotebook.com) the fishing industry went into a slow decline post 1900 but not sure how many from Peel emigrated - Peel was always the most closely knit and remained the 'most manx' of the towns
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Hello Frances_mnb
Oh that is all so interesting!
Fascinated that after the collapse of the lead mines, some went to SA as miners. Mossel Bay where Johann Claassen's Grandfather Henry Waterson was born, isn't as far as I know, or wasn't a mining area, the closest possibly being the Copper mines, up in Little Namaqualand (as it was then known), or the gold mining in Knysna, in the other direction!
However the possibility exists, especially due to the timing of Johann Claassen's Grandfather Waterson's birth, that his father before him, may have arrived in the Cape, South Africa, as a "British" soldier?
The 1st Boer War was 16 Dec, 1880 - 23 march, 1881 and the 2nd Boer War, 11 Oct, 1899 - 31 May, 1902.
I've been searching for lists of British troops sent out to South Africa, to no avail, and also as to which ships they were transported in. Closest I've found is that the Canadians may have assisted with transportation of troops to the Boer Wars?
Where and how does one find lists of troop ships and their passengers?
Were any troops sent out directly from IOM?
Do you perhaps know the names of any particularly relevant to the times Manx regiments etc please?
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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I did search earlier through Anglo Boer War com
in the Officer Casualties, Surname 'W' and no listing for Waterson.
Amongst the "Imperial Casualties" in Casualties, all are listed per Regiment, Cavalry etc.
Of course not knowing if Johann Claassen's Grandfather's father was a soldier from IOM, or not, and not knowing his possible regiment, that came to a dead end.
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look at my site under Boer war
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I've enjoyed a very comprehensive read through your site Frances_mnb, and firstly may I congratulate you on such a varied and interesting site. What a labour of love!
Unfortunately the Manx emigrants, together with Capt William Kitto, during the late 1890's, who worked on the copper mines, on the NW coast of the Cape, do not appear to have one amongst their number with the surname, Waterson. Even though the copper mines were not in the same region as Mossel Bay, being on the opposite coast of the country, I still wouldn't discount, though, that Johann Claassen's Gt Grandfather may have been there.
The same also applies to any reading I did, and links from your site to others, on the Boer Wars..........still no Waterson, unless we can discover which regiment, if he was a soldier, he served with?
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Thank you Danchaslyn and Frances for a very interesting discussion in my absence. You gave me enough 'homework' for the next week. I will work through it and come back to you as soon as possible.
I know my GGdad is out there...
Best wishes
Johann
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Welcome back Johann Claassen!
Looking forward to your returning................in the meanwhile I've another possibility that I came across during my searching, which I'll send you a personal message about.
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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Re, Reply No: 18:
After doublechecking with my "Manx Informant" the 'monument at Braddan' referred to, is in fact, a 'monument in the cemetery in Braddan, with Waterson names on it'.
Anyone game to search for it and transcribe the details, please?
Danchaslyn
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Many thanks Danchaslyn! I will try to find it with Google street.
Best wishes
Johann
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there are two yards in Braddan - old Braddan + new Braddan (very large) both served Douglas - all MI's recorded by IoM FHSoc however difficult to search without a date - try posting a request on http://www.isle-of-man.com/cgi-bin/interests/genealogy/bulletin/index.pl?noframes but not easy to find given the sparse info
(see www.manxnotebook.com/gazateer/gyards/cems.htm - link to Braddan)
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Thank you Frances for the links to the two graveyards at Braddan, the old and the new.
As I believe the Waterson/Watterson family being sought here, probably had a family grave plot prior to 1840, it would be sensible for a search for the appropriate Waterson 'momument' Memorial to be made in the OLD graveyard at Braddan.
Would the local Council at Douglas keep the graveyard records? if not, who would? i.e. to enable the searching for the site/number of the Waterson family grave?
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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NO - the yard is church property but the MI's have been read + published by IoM FHSoc - www.iomfhs.im - strongly suggest placing a request on other board - there is an index to burials on IoMFHS site
There were just a couple of 'bought' plots in Old Braddan - pre Burial act you or a friend buried in a family plot (somewhat controlled by parish clerk but previously allocated by place of residence though by early 19th C Douglas had got too big) - new braddan is more regular and the plot ownership book is at Manx Museum who will almost certainly reply that they donot do research + please employ a local researcher
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Ok, thank you Frances, I'm sure Johann Claassen will do this soonest.
Which Church own's the yard?
Are the parish records held in the Church, if someone were to visit it, seeking marriage, or whatever details?
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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my site has some guides - otherwise buy the recommended book on Manx records or look online forv the neophyte's guides issued by manx Museum - www.gov.im - look under Manx National Heritage
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Thank you Frances and Danchaslyn for the links and suggestions. This wil certainly bring me nearer to some answers on all my questions.
Kind regards
Johann
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Well, Johann Claassen you certainly have quite a lot to go on.......
I've searched through the recommended link from Frances on the Manx Govt site, but so far, no joy there.
Good luck!
Danchaslyn
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Hi
If the graves stone numbers can be found, i can take a photograph as its only about 15 min walk from where i live, and it is something i do any way for people who cant get to the isle of man, but with out numbers its a big search.. Liz
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Thank you Liz for your willingness. As soon as something positive comes up, I will make use of you offer.
Regards, Johann