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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: groom on Wednesday 08 September 10 17:01 BST (UK)
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Can any one find these people after 1851?
Ann Groom married James Levett on the 1st November 1842 in Tunstall Suffolk.
In 1851 they are in Norwich - HO107/1814/301/1 together with Ann's mother Sarah Groom. Both give their POB as Tunstall. James's occupation is bricklayer.
Their daughter Menar Esther is born in 1851 and after that James and Ann vanish. Menar appears in the 1861 in Tunstall with her grandmother, Sarah Groom, and in 1871 as a servant also in Tunstall. She marries there in 1881 and gives her father as James Levett, bricklayer. It doesn't say deceased, but I know that doesn't mean anything.
I can't find James and Ann in any census or death records. Can anyone else spot them?
There is another James and Ann Levett in Suffolk, but this James gives his POB as Bredfield and Ann as Sudbourn. I know my Ann was born in Tunstall as I have the information from the parish records.
Thanks
Jan
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Hi Jan
According to Google, Sudbourn is only about 4 miles from Tunstall. Do you mean the "other" James and Ann you found are on a later census than 1851? If so, my guess is that this couple is yours. Tunstall, Sudbourn and Bredfield all have a postal address of Woodbridge, so I would think that in the 1800s, the area might have been Tunstall, or that is just what they said.
Lizzie
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Thanks for the idea, Lizzie
I've just double checked and the "other" James and Ann Levett are on the 1851 census in Sudbourn, transcribed as Lovell. He is a blacksmith and remains so on later censuses, so definitely a different couple.
My James and Ann seem to disappear completely. ::)
Jan
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Oh well, the idea was good at the time. ::) ::)
As their little girl was with her gran in 1861, either they had both died, or her father had died and mother re-married and you haven't got her new name, or her father had re-married and you don't know his new wife's name, or both were working away.
Lizzie
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As their little girl was with her gran in 1861, either they had both died, or her father had died and mother re-married and you haven't got her new name, or her father had re-married and you don't know his new wife's name, or both were working away.
Lizzie
Got to be one of these hasn't it? ;D However I can't find a death for either of them or either in any later censuses. Only other option I suppose is that they emigrated and left Menar behind.
Jan
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Jan
There is a James Lovett a bricklayer, supposedly born in Deopham about 1817, on the 1861 census (ref RG09 piece 1222 folio 94) with a wife called Rebecca and 5 children, aged 18, 16, 14, 13 and 7. They all have the Lovett name, but maybe the older ones are Rebecca's children from a previous marriage. I can't fine Rebecca Lovett and children on the 1851 census. I can't find a marriage of a James Levett (Lovett) to a Rebecca either, although maybe they weren't married. There is a marriage of a James Lovett in 1857 in Plomesgate, Suffolk, but there aren't any female names listed . According to FreeBMD, Plomesgate covers Tunstall.
There is a death of an Ann Lovett in Norwich in December 1856, ref 4b 73. Could this be your Ann? You said James and Ann were living in Norwich in 1851. Have you got their daughter's birth certificate? What address does that give?
Lizzie
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Thanks Lizzie
That gives me something to work on. The death looks promising as that would explain why Menar was with her grandmother in 1861.
I haven't got any certificates for this family yet as Ann was my gx2 grandfather's sister, but I think I now need to. Perhaps if I get Ann's death that will confirm if her husband was James.
Thanks for your help.
Jan
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Bother - just found a marriage of a James Lovett in 1842 in St Faiths which is Norfolk. This would fit with the eldest child being 18 in 1861. On the same page is a Rebecca Bacon.
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Hi both :)
There's this possible death as well:
James Levett - Jun 1860 - Plomesgate 4a 418
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Thanks Tati
Just checked that on the NBI and I think it's this one:
11 May 1860 James Levett, All Saints, Sudbourne age 4
Probably the son of the "other" James and Ann.
Jan
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?
1861
James Levett 31 Preston Suffolk
Ann Levett 18 "
? SIX BELLS PRESTON ST
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1871
Lovett James 55 Head Bricklayer Deopham Norfolk Cottage Morley St Botolph,
Lovett Rebecca 55 Wife Wymondham , "
Downes James 28 Son Bricklayer "
Lovett Harriet 17 Daughter
any help sylvia
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Just a note
Six Bells PH, The Street, Preston St Mary still there, friends live in the village and we have eaten there (I had the trout and very nice it was too ;D
Pat ...
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1871
Lovett James 55 Head Bricklayer Deopham Norfolk Cottage Morley St Botolph,
Lovett Rebecca 55 Wife Wymondham , "
Downes James 28 Son Bricklayer "
Lovett Harriet 17 Daughter
Wrong one, that's the one I found, then Jan found a marriage in 1842 for a James Lovett to a Rebecca.
Lizzie
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I have been asked to post details of Ann Groom and James Levett's marriage. It is this one:
Marriages Dec 1842
CROOK Ann Plomesgate 12739
Driver Mary
GIBSON Robert
GIRLING Louisa
Levett James
Sawyer James
Although it is transcribed as Crook, apparently from the parish registers her name is clearly signed as Groom.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,392167.0.html
reply 6
Thanks for all your help, this one looks as if it is going to remain a mystery. I'll send for the death certificate of Ann Lovett, Norwich and hope that helps.
Jan
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Well after nearly 8 years I may have made a slight break through!
James and Ann's daughter Menah Esther Levett married James Dunnett. She died on 11th Jun 1931 at Love Lane Melton Suffolk. Looking at the GRO web site Administration of her estate was granted to Susan Louisa Hillier wife of Thomas (Unfortunately that means no will). I then found Susan and Thomas on the 1911 census, both were born in London. However, one of their daughters was called Mena, and when I checked her birth on the GRO site, her mother's maiden name was LEVETT!
I found Susan L Levett born 1853 and her mother Sarah, a widow, on the 1871 census in Islington St Michael London. Sarah was born 1815 in Suffolk and it looks as if she was born in Tunstall.
I then found Susan and Thomas's marriage on Ancestry in 1873 and it was one of those where it shows the actual certificate. Susan's father was JAMES LEVETT, a bricklayer, exactly the same occupation as Menah's father. So I think that Menah and Susan were half sisters. Susan was 20 when she married.
So it looks as if Menah's mother may have died giving birth to her in 1851 - I still can't find a death. Her father James then either married or just lived with Sarah and they moved to London where Susan Louisa was born. I cant find her birth either.
BUT - Menah and Susan must have known about each other and kept in touch as administration was granted a few days after her death to Susan.
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Susan Louisa LIVVETT mmn GROOM, birth reg Mar qtr 1853 Islington?
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Brilliant!!!
As I posted I just thought another possibility could be that Ann ( Menah's mother) also called herself Sarah (which was her mother's name so maybe her middle name) as her date of birth is the same. So it looks as if that did happen and Susan and Menah were real sisters. ;D ;D ;D
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Susan Louisa LIVVETT mmn GROOM, birth reg Mar qtr 1853 Islington?
Baptised at St Mary, Islington:
6 March 1853
Susan Louisa LEVITT, born 28 Jan 1853. Parents: James (bricklayer) and Ann, of Sidney St.
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There is a death of James LIVETT aged 35, Dec qtr 1855 Islington.
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That looks a very good possibility and explains why Menah appears to have stayed with her grandmother in Tunstall. I wonder why Ann didn't return there?
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Thank you very much avm228, I didn't think I'd ever solve this as everything pointed to Ann having died at Menah's birth. Just shows where one little clue can lead!
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There is a death of James LIVETT aged 35, Dec qtr 1855 Islington.
Buried at Victoria Park (nonconformist) Cemetery, Hackney:
30 December 1855
James Levett, 35, of Sidney St, Islington.
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Well I can’t see them in 1861, but good that you’ve been able to make some progress on this :)
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I can't see them in 1861 either, but I'll have a good look tomorrow, and for Ann/Sarah's death.
Thank you very much for your help. Ann (Sarah) Groom was my 3x great aunt and it was so frustrating that she just disappeared. Others who have her in their tree had lost her as well. It was only the fact that the administration of her daughter Menar's will was granted to Susan Louisa Hillier that set me on the right path, as I wondered who she was as Menar didn't have any children. I'm really pleased to have found them after all this time.
Jan
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Just to round this off incase anyone else is looking for the same family:
Ann Levett is in and out of Islington Workhouse in the 1880s and 1890s. She died aged 94 in 1909 in Islington.