RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: debs28 on Tuesday 05 October 10 16:29 BST (UK)
-
I am researching my family tree and I am looking for any information on Lilian Bourne born 1884. sure if she was born in Cardiff or St George, Gloucestershire,
married to George Williams born 31 Jan 1899 in Wiltshire County, England.
They married in 1916 I believe it was in Cardiff.
they lived in Cardiff up until she died on the 12/9/1945.
they had 9 children all together the children were :
Arthur D Williams born 1912.
Albert R Williams born 1917.
Frederick ivor Williams 1920.
George H Williams 1921.
William Alfred Williams. 1924.
Ron Williams 1926.
Vivian Williams 1928.
Harry E Williams 1929.
Sidney Williams 1929/30
anyone have any information i would be really grateful.
thanks debs
-
Did she have a middle name? Do you have the marriage certificate ? Was she married before ?
-
She is in Cardiff in 1901, mother Elizabeth (widow), brother George
-
NO I DO NOT HAVE A MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE FOR LILIAN BOURNE, I HAVE HER OBITUARY FROM THE SOUTH WALES ECHO AND ALSO THE CEMETERY RECORD FOR HER. I COULD NOT GET HER BIRTH OR MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE AS I COULD NOT FIND IT ANYWHERE AND I AM NOT SURE WHERE SHE WAS BORN.
I KNOW THERE WAS A LILIAN BOURNE LIVING IN 5 ANDREWS ROAD LLANDAFF NORTH CARDIFF BUT I AM NOT SURE IF IT IS HER. I KNOW SHE LIVED IN 18 ANDREWS ROAD LLANDAFF NORTH WITH HER HUSBAND GEORGE WILLIAMS AND THEIR 9 SONS.
-
Hi
On the 1891 census the family surname is spelled Bourn (no E at end)
birth
Lilian Bourn 1st qtr 1884 district Cardiff vol 11a page 298
1891 census
Rg12 piece 4401 folio 144 page 45
The wilderness bridge st Llandaff cardiff
Henry bourn b 1851 bishton mon farmer
Elizabeth b 1853
george b 1876 tin worker
Lilian b 1884 llandaff cardiff
sarah morgan niece b 1874 cadoxton glamorgansire
cheers cardiff :)
-
HI
marriage
Lilian Bourne =m= George williams 4th qtr 1908 district- cardiff vol11a page 593
cheers cardiff :)
-
Hi
Poss Birth
Henry George Williams 3rd qtr 1909 vol 11a page 337 district cardiff
Sidney E Williams 3rd qtr 1910 vol 11a page 348 district cardiff
you need to look up the 1911 census for your family.
We are not allowed under copy right law to give out 1911 census.
I hope this will steers you in the right direction
cheers cardiff :)
-
Hi
Looking at Lilian Bourn family 1881 Rg11 5287/77/64 they have elizabeths brother and two children with them his surname being Morgan.
this could be the marriage Henry Bourn =m= Elizabeth Morgan 1st qtr 1873 newport monmouthshire vol 11a page 195.
cheers cardiff :)
-
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP I DO APPRECIATE IT.
DEBS
-
DO YOU THINK THIS IS THE LILIAN BOURNE I AM LOOKING FOR ?
IM NEW TO ALL THIS SO NOT SURE WHAT TO DO
THANKS DEBS
-
Hi debs28
Firstly could you write in low caps , because it is classed like you are shouting in computer talk.
Well the info you gave points to this Lilian Bourn born in cardiff she is the only one.
I take it you don't know the name of her father? do you know the name of Georges father?
On the list of all their sons which one was you grandfather or father? do you have his birth certificate?
Do you know what george did for a living?
my suggestion is to send for the marriage certificate of Lilian and George you have to start somewhere. That marrige certificate will give you lots of info.
Why did you think they were married in 1916? yet you say that the had a son arthur in 1912.
We are all here to help ;D
So you can ask any question and we try to come up with the answer or direct you in the right direction.
cheers cardiff :)
-
Sorry for writing in capitals i typed it early this morning and did not realise being half a sleep.
I have tried to buy Lillian and Georges birth certificate but because I did not know where she was born the registry office said they could not find it. :(
I thought it might have been in 1916 but was not sure so that probably why the registry office could not find it as i had the wrong date
Lillian and George are my husbands Grand parents. and there is no one alive that could help us with the information we need :( to do our family tree so it is quite frustrating trying to do it.
I am very grateful for all the help you have given me.
debs
-
I have looked at the cemetery certificate we have and Lillian Bourne born 1885 did not have a middle name this is the cemetery certificate we have perhaps this might help
-
Hi
death reg
Lilian Williams vol 11a page 261 district cardiff 3rd qtr 1945 aged 61yrs
I don't know if this is the correct Lilian Bourn but the info on the cemetery gives correct age just because she her middle name was not entered does not mean it is not her on the marriage or birth . On your husbands fathers birth certificate did Lilian just put Lilian Williams nee Bourne?
Why do you think she was bourn in Gloucestershire?
looking at George now -When did he die and do you have his death certificate to confirm his age?
Going on what you have told me
I birth came up for Wiltshire <1880>
George Williams 2nd qtr 1879 vol 5a page 85 district Calne Wiltshire
1881 census RG11 piece 2036 folio 68 page 9 Cherhill Calne Wilts
George Williams head b 1833 ag lab compton wilts
Elizabeth wife b 1840 calne wilts
John b 1864 b cherhill
Fanny b 1870 cherhill
daniel b 1874 cherhill
albert 1875 cherhill annie b 1878 cherhill
George b 1880 1yr old
cheers cardiff
-
Hi
1891 Rg12 1597/77/7 cherhill calne wilts
george williams b 1832 gen lab compton wilts
Elizabeth b1840
daniel b 1873 machine blacksmith
Albert H b 1875
george b 1879
Emily b 1883
1901 Rg13 1919/63/16
sheldon rd Chippenham
henry Baker b 1846 wilts mason lab
Louisa b 1850 devon
George Williams b 1880 cherhill wilts Boarder masons lab
william witts b 1879 boarder GWR Fireman
If you send for the marriage certificate it will confirm both their parents and the info from the census I have given you will confirm they are correct. Untill you can disprove the births and marriages I have given you I am not sure what you should do.
Its up to you but sending for the marriage certificate is a start. I am not sure what else to tell you.
Unless someone else would give you better info.
cheers cardiff :)
-
Thank you for your help.
I have looked at my husbands dad's birth certificate as he is Lillian Bourne's son Fred and on there Lillian just got her name as Lillian Williams former Bourne. and George occupation was a railway plate layer in 1920 when Fred was born and it says they were from 18 Andrews Road Llandaff North Cardiff.
debs
-
Hi
On BMD shows 4th qtr 1908 11a page 539 Cardiff
Lilian Bourne
George Williams
John Floorance H Crouch
have found John H Croch =m= to Gertrude Maud but canot see her maiden name tried the chidren for mother surname and cannot see her on vol and page info.
Debs e-mailed me to say she had contacted cardiff Reg office and they dont have the marriage, waiting for her to reply.
Did Cardiff Reg say that Lilian and George was not a matched couple or they could not find marriage. can anyone else see if lilian and george was married to someone else. I thought that if they appear on same page with vol and page they all match up together.
I would hate it if I had given Debs the wrong info. I have only been doing this family tree stuff for ten years ???
cheers cardiff ???
-
Hi Cardiff
The Cardiff registry office said there was no match for Lilian and George in Cardiff.
but i am going to try again tomorrow with the details of the BMD site stating it was in The 4th quarter 11a page 539 and see what they say with that.
thanks for your help.
-
I have received the marriage certificate for Esther Lilian Bourne and George Williams today.
George was 29 at the time of their marriage and Esther was 23.
the residence for them both at the time of marriage was 76 May Street Cathays,
CARDIFF CF24 4EY.
George's father was a George Williams Occupation Labourer.
Esther's Father was Henry Bourne occupation Farmer.
Esther and George got married in St Andrews Parish Church in Llandaff Cardiff on the 19th December 1908
I still can not find a birth for Esther. I have noticed on the marriage certificate that she went by the name Lilian Bourne and not Esther Lilian Bourne.
Debs
-
Hi
So it looks like the Henry Bourn I gave you on census was a farmer so looks a good match for Lilians family and also Williams fathers info is good also.
So we just need to find Lilians birth- I gave you a birth for a Lilian Bourn ( surname spelled Bourn no E)
Lilian Bourn 1st qtr 1884 cardiff vol 11a page 298
If you want to send for her birth certificate you already know her fathers name and occupation and looking at the 1891 census I gave you her mothers name is Elizabeth so you can add that info to your request. if its not a match they want send the certificate.
I believe that this is the birth of your lilian Bourne/Bourn ( the name esther is odd and is not on the registerof her birth)
because all info leads to it.
have faith
cheers cardiff ;)
-
What site did you find them on in the 1891 census as I have looked on Ancestry and can not find them.
debs
-
HI
If you look on at previous replies have given you you can see the piece folio and page numbers I have given you. Yes I have looked on ances.. and it is coming up with zero but It is on the 1891 census. I dont know why that is?
cheers cardiff