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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Sutherland => Topic started by: orkrad on Wednesday 06 October 10 01:31 BST (UK)
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This is a very long shot but someone might be able to help.
I am trying to find the birthplace of an ancestor John MACPHAIL/ MCFAUL.
On his marriage cert (he married Ann Jane MCKILLOP at Ballycastle Rathlin Ireland in 1868) his father's name is Charles MCPHAIL. There is no record of Charles in Rathlin. I have always been given to believe that John MACPHAIL/MCFAUL had Noth Uist ancestry. His mother was Margaret MACKAY/MCKAY but this search has so far proved unsuccessful. A helpful Rootschatter suggested that I try Strathnaver Sutherland as both these names are common in that district.
John (my ancestor) was probably born around 1845 according to the date of his death cert. (I know these records are not always accurate!) He died in Greenock Renfrewshire in 1899.
Can anyone locate John MCPHAIL or his parents for me.
I have tried all the usual Scotlands people records without any luck.
Here's hoping.
Orkrad.
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Hi everyone
My post requesting a possible McPhail/McKay marriage in Strathnaver Sutherland sometime in the early 1840's has produced no results.
I am left wondering is MCPHAIL a common name for this area? If not can anyone suggest another county (or counties) where a search might be more successful?
Regards Orkrad
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Is this the post? "A helpful Rootschatter suggested that I try Strathnaver Sutherland as both these names are common in that district."
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,487401.msg3454170.html#msg3454170 topics merged
You've only posted on 6 October so probably just need to be patient and see if anyone can help.
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McPhail (or MacPhail; or MacFall, etc.) is probably gaelic for "son of Paul" As is common with names having the prefix "mac" or the suffix "son", there could be several, unrelated origins. One is Paul Balkasson (foster father of Leod and Sheriff of Skye) and another is Paul McTire (anglicized spelling) possibly connected to the Earldom of Ross. In any event, the MacPhails of Sutherland appear to have been a sept of the Mackays. However, there were also MacPhails in other parts of Scotland.
Strathnaver is the heart of "Mackay Country" so a McPhail/Mackay marriage would not be unrealistic and would likely be recorded in the Parish Register. Have you tried tracing it through Hugh Wallis's web site?
I notice the IGI lists the marriage of William MacPhail to Isabella Mackay on 3 July 1874, at Farr, which is Strathnaver
IanB
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Thanks IanB. Will try the website you mentioned. The Charles MCPHAIL/Margaret MCKAY marriage I am looking for probably was early 1840's. My direct ancestor John MCPHAIL was probably born (where I don't know) around 1845 married in Rathlin Ireland in 1869 and died in Greenock 1899.He obviously was a bit of a traveller.
Regards Orkrad.
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may help
sylvia
http://www.clanphail.org/Mcphail/
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Are you sure that Charles McPhail and Margaret McKay (parents of John McPhail?) were from Sutherland?
The Irish civil registration index only shows 1 McPhail marriage in Co. Antrim- a William John McPhail 1900 Belfast.
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1408347
You've mentioned that John McPhail was married 1869 "in Rathlin Ireland"- do you mean on Rathlin Island? If so, much of Rathlin is and has been populate by McFaul/McFalls and I'm wondering if the McPhail family might have been connected.
What was the name of John McPhail's wife?
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Hi Orkrad,
Have you visited this site? http://irishgenealogy.net/files/Mcfmar1.html
It is a list of marriages that includes that of John McFall and Ann Jane McKillop.
If you have an edit function similar to "Find on this page", enter "Ballynatte" and it will jump down and hilight the entry. It shows John's father as Charles and Ann's father as Archibald. You will notice the name "McFall" is mentioned many times, which causes me to think that your John may have been from there, and not North Uist nor Sutherland.
Hope this helps,
IanB
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Thanks Aghadowey and IanB.
I have a church marriage record for JohnMCFALL and Ann Jane MCKILLOP. They were married 27 July 1868 at Ballycastle, Parish /District Moyle, County Antrim Their denomination was Church of Ireland.
I also have a death certificate for John MCPHAIL which gives his parents names as Charles MCPHAIL and Margaret MCKAY.
I know that these names are both common on Rathlin but I have been unable to trace John's birth or his parents there. All MCPHAIL/Mc FALL searches on Rathlin have not been fruitful.
As to why I think John MCPHAIL might have come from somewhere else I only have family stories(unreliable I know but often containing some grain of truth!) that say our MCPHAILS came from North Uist and that we are members of the Clan MCPHERSON.
I know it is more plausible that John MCFAUL/MCFALL/MCPHAIL probably came from Rathlin or Ballycastle but I simply can't find him.
Regards Orkrad.
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If you had given us John's name (McFall) and the place of marriage (Rathlin) at the beginning we would have saved a bit of time searching for him.
Much of Ulster, especially North Antrim, was settled to Scottish families and it's not uncommon for them to say they came from 'Scotland' or 'Ayrshire', etc. My grandmother's ancestors came from Isle of Skye to Co. Londonderry and after several generations our branch of the family went to Canada- later generations always said they were from Skye and it was only when I read notes in a family Bible that I was able to trace them in Ireland.
Have you found John in Scottish census records (1871, 1881, 1891)? what's listed as John's place of birth- Ireland or Scotland?
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Have been unable to trace John MCPHAIL/MCFALL in any Scottish census. Have tried name variations and wildcards without success.
This seems strange as Children of John MCPHAIL and Ann Jane MCKILLOP were born in Greenock in 1879, 1881, 1886 and 1887. I have birth certs for two of them. I would have expected the family to appear in the 1881 and 1891 censuses .
John's wife Ann Jane is similarly absent from 1881and 1891 censuses.
John's widow appears in the 1901 census for Greenock as a boarding house keeper with three of her children and a grandchild. She has 13 boarders mostly shipyard workers born locally or in Ireland.
John MCPHAIL is still an unknown. His occupation was quarryman and I have no idea where he might have found work.
Regards Orkrad.
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Have been unable to trace John MCPHAIL/MCFALL in any Scottish census. Have tried name variations and wildcards without success.
This seems strange as Children of John MCPHAIL and Ann Jane MCKILLOP were born in Greenock in 1879, 1881, 1886 and 1887. I have birth certs for two of them. I would have expected the family to appear in the 1881 and 1891 censuses .
Have you tried searching Scottish census records with Just name of a child, their age +/- 2 yrs or so and first names of parents?
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Thanks. Have stated to try your suggestion but have run out of credits.
Will persevere with this idea as it sounds like it has a lot of possibilities.
Orkrad
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Hi,
I am also researching McPhail.See my post James McPhail born 1821 Ireland under Lanarkshire.My John McPhail married Margaret McGee.I have no idea what part of Ireland they came from.
Norma
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Hi Normamac
Still no luck for me on tracing my Irish forebears. Someone suggested I try this site http://irishgenealogy.net/files/Mcfmar1.html. I did find my ancestor's marriage. My James Mc Phail was spelled MCFAUL and the marriage took place in Ballynatte Antrim which is/ was in the Rathlin Isles It does not say however that he was born there and I have yet to locate a birth cert for him. There are quite a few Mc PHAIL/MCFAUL families on the Rathlin website so you may be lucky.
Irish research is a never ending mystery especially for us who live in the Antipodes!
Regards Orkrad.