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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Carmarthenshire => Wales => Carmarthenshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: DAVID WALTERS on Saturday 04 December 10 11:03 GMT (UK)

Title: James and Tyler marriage lookup please
Post by: DAVID WALTERS on Saturday 04 December 10 11:03 GMT (UK)
Can anyone find a marriage please for Elizabeth James and Walter Tyler. around 1890? :)

The only thing that I have to work on is a birth certificate for their child:
Edwin James Tyler
7 January 1891
Station Road, Llangennech, Loughor, Llanelly, Carm/Glam.
Father: Walter Tyler. Worker at Iron Foundry
Mother: Elizabeth Tyler (James)
Reported by: Martha Hinkin, present at the birth 17 Feb 1891.

I cannot see them myself on the 1891 census or a death for Elizabeth (maybe she died in childbirth). To be honest I cannot find all three, other then this birth.

Any offer please? :)
Title: Re: James and Tyler marriage lookup please
Post by: lizdb on Saturday 04 December 10 20:41 GMT (UK)
The only Walter Tyler I can see in Wales in 1891 is in the workhouse in Llanwrst Denbighshire - age 41
RG12 4631 33 6
with a Frederick (possibly age 8, though unclear and indexed 85) and a William age 5
Title: Re: James and Tyler marriage lookup please
Post by: DAVID WALTERS on Saturday 04 December 10 20:44 GMT (UK)
Thank you for your help. :)

Wonder if its him?
Title: Re: James and Tyler marriage lookup please
Post by: Galium on Sunday 05 December 10 11:30 GMT (UK)
I can't see the marriage, but I thought it was worth looking for Martha Hinkin and found this:

Marriages December 1884
HINKIN    Edwin Thomas         Llanelly    11a   1325   
JAMES    Martha         Llanelly    11a   1325   

In 1891
Great Western Terrace, Llanelly

Edwin T Hinkin head     28     Tin man Iron works        Glamorgan, Ystabyfera [?]
*Margretta Hinkin wife 26                                            Glamorgan, Mountain Ash
Miriam G Hinkin daur 3                                                  Llangennech
Robert H Hinkin son 1                                                   Llangennech
Evelyn G S Hinkin daur 7m                                            Llangennech

Census ref:Class: RG12/ Piece: 4493/ Folio 114/ Page 32

*Image does read Margretta, but bear with me, I think she's Martha.

1881 census

"adjoining York Hotel" Llanelly

Margaret James head W  45    Charwoman                      Tredgroves, Cardigan
Elizabeth James daur 18  working in tin works    Maesteg, Glamorgan
Martha James   daur 16              working in pottery  Mountain Ash, Glamorgan
Margaret James daur 11 At school                            Mountain Ash, Glamorgan
Marim James daur       9  At School                            Mountain Ash, Glamorgan

Census ref:Class: RG11/ Piece: 5373/ Folio: 114/ Page: 5

So, considering the possibilty that Martha Hinkin is Elizabeth James/Tyler's sister, a search of the 1891 census for Elizabeth born in Maesteg c1863 shows up only one who is in Carmarthenshire:

Household of Thomas Thomas at 10 Bay View Terrace

Elizabeth Taylor servant M 19   General Servant        Maesteg, Glam

Can't see the Hinkin family in 1901 - although there is a probable marriage of one of the daughters in Pontypridd district in 1912, and Robert H Hinkin died in Llanelly district in 1963.

Edwin James Tyler isn't showing in 1891 - he isn't with (possible) grandmother Margaret James [Census ref:Class: RG12/ Piece: 4495/ Folio 75/ Page 27]

Title: Re: James and Tyler marriage lookup please
Post by: Galium on Sunday 05 December 10 12:16 GMT (UK)
A little more digging shows that Mary Ann Thomas (who is aged 30 in 1891, and born in Maesteg), wife of Thomas who is Elizabeth Taylor's employer in 1891, is probably a sister of Martha and Elizabeth James.

1871 census

Llanwonno, Glamorgan
Simon James head M  Coal miner      Carmarthen, Egermont
Margaret James wife M                     Cardigan, Tregaron
John James son          15 Coal miner Maesteg
Mary Ann James daur  11                  Maesteg
Eliza James  daur         8                   Maesteg
Martha James daur    6                      Llanwonno
Rosanna James daur  4                     Llanwonno
Margaret James daur 2                     Llanwonno


Marriages September Q 1879
JAMES    MARY ANN    Llanelly    11a   793    
THOMAS    Thomas         Llanelly    11a   793   

Rosanna James married Peter Lay in 1888, and shows up in Llanelly in 1901 (indexed as Rosanna LEEF), but I cannot find them and their two eldest children Annie and Simon in 1891.
Title: Re: James and Tyler marriage lookup please
Post by: DAVID WALTERS on Sunday 05 December 10 14:22 GMT (UK)
This is very interesting. Let me read it for a while.
Title: Re: James and Tyler marriage lookup please
Post by: DAVID WALTERS on Sunday 05 December 10 15:31 GMT (UK)
You have worked hard on this. I can see the plot coming together now. More so with it leading back to Maesteg.

I don't know if you know the area of Maesteg but just outside of Maesteg is the village of Caerau, the home village of my grandmother, my mother and all the James family. I am trying to find the right Edwin Tyler James (my grandfather), and the family story that he was adopted or born out of wedlock, and there was a story about a name change. Edwin James Tyler becoming Edwin Tyler James.

If you want to read more of the story, see my other post on Edwin Tyler James.

Thank you for that, I find it very interesting.
Title: Re: James and Tyler marriage lookup please
Post by: Morganllan on Monday 06 December 10 01:15 GMT (UK)
Link to this thread to avoid duplication:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,497307.0.html
Title: Re: James and Tyler marriage lookup please
Post by: Morganllan on Monday 06 December 10 01:35 GMT (UK)
The only Walter Tyler I can see in Wales in 1891 is in the workhouse in Llanwrst

Perhaps we need to look for Walter Taylor in either Llanelli area or Bridgend area in 1891? It could have been written as it sounded, hence Tyler!  :)
Title: Re: James and Tyler marriage lookup please
Post by: Galium on Monday 06 December 10 08:29 GMT (UK)
Looking back through your other posts, I see that John James, head of your 'Ditfield' family names his birthplace as Egremont, Carmarthenshire - as does Simon James, father of Elizabeth and Martha  - and one of John's sons is named Simon.  They were both born c1832-1834.

Egremont is described in A Topographical Dictionary of Wales - S. Lewis (info from Genuki) as having only 140 inhabitants in 1844. 
Title: Re: James and Tyler marriage lookup please
Post by: DAVID WALTERS on Monday 06 December 10 09:03 GMT (UK)
All this is looking very interesting.

I believe I said it before that one of John's daughter's went to live with John's family in Llanelly to have her child fathered by a Walter Tyler, then returned to the Maesteg area. Changing the child's name to the family name of James.

I checked all the houses on Station Road this morning, there is no Tyler or James family, only those at number 20. This must be the house that Elizabeth stayed in to have her baby, then both returned to the Maesteg area before 2 April 1911.

The funny thing is I cannot find any record of Edwin Tyler James or Edwin James Tyler for 21 years up to his marriage at Bridgend in Nov 1911. Wonder what name he used for those years?

I did find a medal roll index for Edwin Tyler James. I know he served in WW1, for he was hurt, kicked in the head by a horse and no longer fit for service. They put some kind of plate in his head. Yet I cannot find a pension record for him. He is indeed a man of mystery.