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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northamptonshire => Topic started by: kingsleyj on Monday 20 December 10 21:08 GMT (UK)

Title: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Monday 20 December 10 21:08 GMT (UK)
Hi, Sorry this could be a long post!!!

I am lloking to reaseach the history of my house. What i want to achieve is a historical knowledge of who lived here and what the house looked at through there tennure.
Ideally i would like pictorial references, alongside names of people that lived here, to put a sort of pack together.
I would also love some kind of building plans if they still existed!!!!

Our house is a unique victorian house along a road of mainly victorian terreced homes. I cant be sure but i think the build date was late 1860's. I could date it easily. It was one of the first houses along this street to be built.
Our house has a number but also has a 'name' inscribed into the stonework.

WHAT I HAVE DONE SO FAR!! Is purely interenet based..

                 1911 Census ic complete
                 1901 Census is complete ( different family to above )
                   1891 Census ..... 

 kingsley road has fewer entries , houses by names not numbers , although our house name is missing there are severel entries of houses with no names / numbers. I may be able to deduce which entry is our by assuming  the schedule numbers move up the street in order. I have searched the occupants from 1901 who live in a different property in northampton at this time.

                  1881 Census.........

Kingsley Road has just 2 entries. However kingsley garden ( although we have a series of cottages further down the road called kingsley gardens )  and kingsley park & Estate appear either side of it. Again no entries for house names etc.
Of the 2 Entries no names match any latter ones to our homes entries.

                   1871 Census.......

No entries for Kingsley road

I have also looked at old maps online which confirm the house being there on its earlyist maps ( about 1884 ) and it being one of only a few there at this time.

What i was going to do next was visit the local records office...

But i dont know what i will be looking for? what documents? do they have a census there to browse more easily than pay per view internet site?
will they hold old plans / changes to the house i.e. planning


Ideally i would like to track down descendents of the people who lived at my house in search of some old photos and information/ stories....
I have these peoples names but where do i start on tracing there desendents bearing in mind i cant trace any further forward than the 1911 census?

Or anyone have a telephone number of someone who knows everything about northampton !!lol

I can supply names on the censuses etc to anyone that wants to look at the specific details , i just ommited them on this intial message....

So there we go i hope your not too bored and still awake but any ideas muchly appreciated.

in advance

jay




Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: groom on Monday 20 December 10 21:24 GMT (UK)
Hi Jay

Have you got the deeds to the house? When we cleared my late mother's house I found the deeds, which were interesting as they gave when it was built and the names of the various owners and how much they each paid for it.

If you haven't got them you might be able to get them from the Land Registry.

Jan
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Monday 20 December 10 23:23 GMT (UK)
we did have the ones for our old house they were really usefull!!!!
i havent seen anything for our current house. I just assumed the things get lost(loads of old indentures etc)
can you point me in the right direction of the land registry?
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: groom on Monday 20 December 10 23:37 GMT (UK)
Don't know if this is any good

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/

If you still have a mortgage on your house, the deeds will probably be with the mortgage company. I know mine were returned to me when I paid the mortgage off.

Jan
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Monday 20 December 10 23:43 GMT (UK)
yes we have a mortgage , so i assume the pack of old indentures etc could be with the mortgage company so i assume a phone call and i should be able to see them!!!
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: groom on Monday 20 December 10 23:55 GMT (UK)
Worth a try.  ;)

Good luck

Jan
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: Jeuel on Tuesday 21 December 10 10:59 GMT (UK)
You may find it worthwhile to visit Northamptonshire archives/records office or a local history centre/museum. 
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: slippery on Tuesday 21 December 10 14:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Jay

I am trying to find out the history of our cottage, we have deeds only going back to 1900.
What I have been doing is searching for ancestors of the people who lived here by searching  their family trees on Ancestry and Genes. I just say I have no family connections but I live in the house their ancestors lived in.
People have visited our cottage and given me photographs of their ancestors, one dated from 1865. We had a visit from the person who carried out the major modifications in the 1960's.

You never know what you will find out till you try.

Best of luck

Peter
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Tuesday 21 December 10 15:09 GMT (UK)
years ago we visitred a house one of my wife ancesters lived in with just a photo to direct us!!

which website have you found best to trace people on. you say ancestry and genes  is that ancestryandgenes.com?
very new to this!!
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Tuesday 21 December 10 15:11 GMT (UK)
jeuel,

I pland to vist the records office but am unsure what it is i am looking for or how things are catorgrised. am i searching for info on my adress or past inhabitents?

what sort of records do these places keep?
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: carol8353 on Tuesday 21 December 10 17:16 GMT (UK)
Quote from: kingsleyj on Tuesday 21 December 10 15:11 GMT (UK)

what sort of records do these places keep?

Look at their website http://www.northamptonshire.gov.uk/en/councilservices/community/ro/pages/default.aspx

Email them and tell them what you are hoping to do and see what suggestions they come up with. They are really helpful there,and the parking is free too  ;D

Carol
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Tuesday 21 December 10 21:25 GMT (UK)
i will do that tonight and see what they suggest , thanks carol
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: slippery on Wednesday 22 December 10 10:23 GMT (UK)
Jay

These are the 2 sites I use they are pay sites I do not know if you have to be a member to look at the family trees.

http://www.ancestry.co.uk/Default.aspx

http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/home/

If you have a problem let me have all the information of one of the families and I will look for you.

Peter
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: Jeuel on Wednesday 22 December 10 12:44 GMT (UK)
Archives may have maps showing your house, perhaps architects' plans, old rates books, residential directories, electoral rolls etc.

Local newspapers might have information about events in the street - some archives have indexes for this kind of thing.
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 22 December 10 16:11 GMT (UK)
When we bought our last house, all the old conveyances were with the solicitor who handled our purchase. ( He referred to as pre-registration documents). Once a property is registered with the land registry, the deeds just become a computer print out. We did not realise this until several months after completion we received a letter from our solicitor saying he had this bundle of pre-registration documents which were no longer required by the Land Registry. He said if we didn't want them he would shred them. Although at the time we did not know what he meant, I went to collect them, thinking we could shred them just as easily. I was glad I did. Although our house was only a 1960's build, it had been built as a close of 14 houses on land sold off by the local Manor House. It contained copies of conveyances going back to Victorian times for the Manor House.
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: veeblevort on Wednesday 22 December 10 16:27 GMT (UK)

Hi.

the national archives has put a webpage up with some advice on
researching house history. I have put a short link to the page here:

        http://tinyurl.com/3y6vaos

I think you may already have progressed to a level where there is
nothing new for you there though.
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Wednesday 22 December 10 16:31 GMT (UK)
i got a nice reply to my email from the records office , i am going in over the holidays.

Peter , your offer is one that is too good to refuse!! please find the peoples details below.

1911 census

Holmes , James  , age 45  born 1866 in n,pton , st peters. Occupation Boot manufacturer.  At the same time his company operated on Clarke Road , Northampton
married to
Holmes , susannah  age 48 born 1863 in Horrold Beds
NO CHILDREN (so maybe not tracable)_

1901 census ( more intersting i think??? )

Collinridge , Thomas (thor )  ,Head ,  48 born 1853 @ Hethe br Oxfordshire
Collinridge  , Sopy ( sophia ) Wife  48 also born Curragh Boy Roscommon Ireland
Collinridge  , William B  son born 1883 , pupil to mechanical engineer ,, born n.pton
Collinridge , Francis J son born 1891 School Boy born n,pton
Collinridge , Constance M Daughter born 1884 School Girl Born in northampton
Snoy , Robert , border , male , born 1880 ( 20 yrs) Baron of the Kingdom of Belguim Brussels Belguim Subject
Rother , Fredrico , Border male born 1883 (18 yrs )  Ragionere Italy  Milan Italian Subject
Plus 2 sevents , a Parsons Harriet married female of 26 years born in npton
and Williams , Gertrude , single female 15 yrs born in Daventry

The above couple are in a different local address in the 1881 census with 2 more sons and another daughter. at which point Thomas is a manager of Leather Works.

So there you go guys you now know as much as my internet delving!!!!

Thanks in advance peoples.




Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 22 December 10 16:34 GMT (UK)
Quote from: kingsleyj on Wednesday 22 December 10 16:31 GMT (UK)
i got a nice reply to my email from the records office , i am going in over the holidays.


Glad you did, I told you they were good  ;D

For fear of stating the bl***ing obvious- do remember to check their opening times over the hols before you go  ;D

Carol
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Wednesday 22 December 10 16:58 GMT (UK)
i did , and they said they are not generally busy at this time of the year !!!!
lizzie , i will email our sols as they should have physically seen the paperwor and should or may  be able to tell me more ( finger crossed )
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: seahall on Wednesday 22 December 10 20:03 GMT (UK)
Hi All.

Did they tell you will need a CARN card and 2 forms of identity before
being able to access any records.

I used to live in Kingsley Road as a teenager before moving to St George's Avenue.

Which number are we talking about, or have I missed it.

Also if you click on my useful links it may help you further or the
Alan Clarke link who has alot of photographs on his web pages
of the town.

Sandy
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: seahall on Wednesday 22 December 10 20:16 GMT (UK)
Okay I see it was No.34.

I lived 27.  :)

I will look to see if I can find more info on it than you already have.

Sandy
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: seahall on Wednesday 22 December 10 21:04 GMT (UK)
Hi again.

I have searched all the directories etc I have and can not find
it previous to your own searches.

Edited:  On my 1892 electoral roll Thomas was at 32, Watkin Terrace.

On my 1901 electoral roll he was at 34 and had premises (a warehouse)
in Ladies Lane.

Sandy
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Wednesday 22 December 10 21:11 GMT (UK)
sandy , thanks for your looking , apparently, prior to being called kingsley road it was either gypy lane or gypsy road

house build date is 1883 according to the stone inscription.
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: seahall on Wednesday 22 December 10 21:19 GMT (UK)
Looking at other later directories I have.

1928 Street Directory.

Frederick Clarke, 34, Kingsley Road.

Sandy
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: seahall on Wednesday 22 December 10 21:31 GMT (UK)
In 1914.

James Holmes is noted as residing at 34, Kingsley Road.

Sandy

Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Wednesday 22 December 10 22:59 GMT (UK)
ahh cool so i know he was ther ein 1911 , and 1914 ,  he was also listed in a boot maufactures directory in clarke road in 1911 , but not in 19.... think 23... but he would have been in his 60,s by then so may well have died or sold out
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Thursday 23 December 10 19:16 GMT (UK)
gipsy lane , kingsthorpe  appears in the 1881 census i found , but has 1 entry against no name.
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: seahall on Friday 24 December 10 09:30 GMT (UK)
Not suprised as it was a country lane in those days.

I hope you read the topic saying the Local Studies is
closed for 4 months as so many resources that could
of helped you are not available.  :(

Sandy
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: carol8353 on Friday 24 December 10 09:35 GMT (UK)
Sandy,when you say 'Local Studies' are you just referring to the second floor of Nton library? Not the actual record office at Wootton Hall ?

Gipsy Lane in 1881 appears to have just one family there,they ran a farm,so it probably took up the whole of the road!

Carol
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: seahall on Friday 24 December 10 09:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Carol.

Not sure about your question.  :-\

The topic states Local Studies at the Library.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0awi/

No closure of access to the Record Office that I know off.

So I guess that is a Yes. :)

James Holmes died in June of 1922 he could still have been
noted in 1923 as most entries were taken from October of
the previous year.

Have a good one Carol, I can't wait.  :)

I think this needs to be moved to the Northants board, I will ask
a Mod to do so.

Sandy

Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: seahall on Friday 24 December 10 09:47 GMT (UK)
Just had a thought Carol.

Quote
to the second floor of Nton library

There is only a basement, ground floor and a 1st floor, so it is the 1st floor.

Sandy
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: carol8353 on Friday 24 December 10 09:48 GMT (UK)
Quote from: seahall on Friday 24 December 10 09:47 GMT (UK)

Quote
to the second floor of Nton library

There is only a basement, ground floor and a 1st floor, so it is the 1st floor.

Sandy

Oh yes so it is.....I must have had my American hat on there- they say 1st floor meaning the one you come in off the street from  ;D

Quote from: carol8353 on Tuesday 21 December 10 17:16 GMT (UK)

Look at their website http://www.northamptonshire.gov.uk/en/councilservices/community/ro/pages/default.aspx

Email them and tell them what you are hoping to do and see what suggestions they come up with. They are really helpful there,and the parking is free too  ;D

Carol

It is the record office that  Kingsleyj has contacted so we're okay then ,that isn't the one that's closed for 4 months phew  ;)

Carol
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: Valda on Friday 24 December 10 09:59 GMT (UK)
Hi kingsleyj


Seahall who knows the board well is advising the topic be moved to the Northamptonshire board. Would you like me to move your topic to Northamptonshire?


Regards

Valda
Moderator
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: seahall on Friday 24 December 10 10:01 GMT (UK)
The Library is a lot closer than "Wootten Hall" so would have been
easier access.

Good Christmas spirit around at the moment.

Sandy
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Friday 24 December 10 10:16 GMT (UK)
hi. i think moving this to the northampton board will be a good idea.

last night i tried to match the house names from 1881  to nowadays numbers (walking down the steet) , still have quite a few to go. Think lots have been changed etc etc.

thing is in old maps from 1883 -1887 there are 14 houses / buididings on it ours included. but the date on our house is 1883.
On the 1883 censuus there are 14 inputs for kigsley park estate.

cross referncing the census with the old map i read it like this

first house is jn between harbo rd an welforn rd. next is gipsy lane this is the farm house ,
12 houses for kingsley gardens ( still there now by same name near bethany homestaed)
5 inputs for kingsley road.these buildings can be seen at would now be the top of georges avenve)
then kingsley park estate runs from whats now tinas shop junction  road to the white ele ( occupation of man selling beer ) then across the road for the last entry a police man. poss that house on the corner was a police house?

I did see a house between tinas shop and the first house with a date on the wall of 1883 that isnt on the 1883 map though.
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 24 December 10 10:38 GMT (UK)
Could the term "Kingsley Park Estate" also include the houses in Oliver Road and Milton Road, the old map shows some houses clearly in existence and the 1881 census has no separate listing for these streets.
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Friday 24 December 10 11:15 GMT (UK)
yes , lizzie , it guess it could , i had thought of that but just assumed oliver street would have its own listing!!
back to re counting the houses on my map again!!!
i guess what i need is an 1881 map at the point of the census  poss be something with the deeds ( when i locate them lol)
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: ainslie on Friday 24 December 10 12:44 GMT (UK)
Sorry I cannot help with the history, but I lived for a few months in the top floor of No. 54, in the early 1960s.
Seeing the road on Google Earth reminded me that a large circus visited the Racecourse that summer.
What was the pub on the corner of Kettering Road called?  I am sure it was not the White Elephant then. 
A
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: seahall on Friday 24 December 10 13:12 GMT (UK)
Hi ainslie.

The Pub I think was called that then, although they changed it awhile ago
as they seem to with a lot of Northampton old ones.

I have a Pub index so I will have a look and see if it notes when built.

Sandy
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: seahall on Friday 24 December 10 13:52 GMT (UK)
Hi again.

The 1st mention of the White Elephant was in 1889.

Sandy
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Friday 24 December 10 14:00 GMT (UK)
under kingsley park hotel?

it was only called the white elephant because after the race course closed it stood empty hence the nickname
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: seahall on Friday 24 December 10 14:06 GMT (UK)
Hi again kinsleyj.

On the index I have it was called the White Elephant in 1889 upwards.

I was aware like yourself it was left empty though and acquired the nickname.

It's address was 2, Kingsley Park Road (now Terrace).

Maybe I have it completely wrong, wouldn't be surprised.

Sandy
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Friday 24 December 10 14:40 GMT (UK)
o.k. eversly is no.4 (double fronted childrens home )
then there is a sigle bay terraced house no. 2

maybe white elephant / kingley park hotel could be adressed as part of kingsley park terrace?

no 1 kingsley road is on the other side of the road first house past georges avenve ( going towards kingsthorpe )
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: ainslie on Friday 24 December 10 14:49 GMT (UK)
Yes, the KP Hotel seems to ring a bell [not Kevin Peterson though I hope he rings some bells in Melbourne].
A
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Friday 24 December 10 14:59 GMT (UK)
jus a question in the 1881 census the houses are adressed as names in a list but the scedules are not in numerical order.
if they were put in order would it go along the road as such?
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: seahall on Friday 24 December 10 15:04 GMT (UK)
Further on in the index it is noted under Victuallers as below.

FREER John, White Elephant (K. P. H.) 1903

On my 1901 Electoral Roll it is noted as
Freer John, K P Hotel, Kingsley Rd

I think the 1901 was already listed earlier for 34.

I can see how confussing it seems.

I was trying to assist, although it may seem otherwise.

Merry Christmas to all Northants Rootschatters
[/i][/size][/color]

Sandy
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Friday 24 December 10 15:22 GMT (UK)
sandy your a wealth of knowledge and a great help!!!

J
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: behindthefrogs on Friday 24 December 10 15:37 GMT (UK)
I have a vague memory of there being a police station at the back of the White Elephant on the Kettering Road just before the first shop.  That would have been around 1950.

David
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: seahall on Friday 24 December 10 15:47 GMT (UK)
kingsleyj

There are many on our boards who were born in the Town also.

David and Scrimnet and Rthom etc, etc, etc.

I will be on later to see if you have been able to progress more. 
Not too late though as it is that special evening.  :)

Sandy
Title: Re: Knigsley road . northampton .how do i start to reasearch the history of my house
Post by: kingsleyj on Thursday 30 December 10 21:03 GMT (UK)
i went to the records office today and found out the following ( need to write this in brief so  i remeber )

kellys directories

1890 Weed . George lived at A house called HOLLYBANK ( ours see 1903 )
1894 No mention of house current name 'Montlucan'
1898 As above ( although my old house is mentioned ther very cool :-)
1903 Collingridge at property called HOLLYBANK , recored at our property no. 34 in the 1901 Census with warehouse at 14 ladys lane
1906 Collinridge still called HOLLYBANK in kellys
1910 Now noted as no. 34 and resided by JAMES Homes (as also per 1911 census)
1914 Thomas Collingridge has moved his warehouse to St johns tannery Greenough yard , Bridge street
         James Holmes has Premises ( boot makers ) at Rambler Works Clarke Road
1920 34 Kingsley road is still James Holmes
1924 Fredrick Clarke
1928 Fredrick Clarke
1931 Mrs B Clarke ( maybe widow)
1936 ELMER Wm . J   ( thats how it was wrote )
1940 As above.

so i know nothing about any of a George Weed , Fredrick Clarke or ELMER Wm . J

CENSUS
I have ran out of credits for my census things but in the 1901 census holly bank is on there. could anyone tell me more details on george weed?

1910 DOOMSDAY BOOK.

James Holmes House owner and lives there. also owns a plot directly behind my house in oliver street upon which our garages (2 story stables ) are. A man is noted as living in this building by the name of what could be a C , g or similar B Taylor

Maps show the stables were built inbertween 1886 and 1901 old-maps.co.uk

PHOTO
I also found a photo under K of our Hour C 1900 ish.Taken from Alongside  Bradford house ( since demolished replaced with the 70,s flats on the road ) it looks along the road to our house.
Also som of bradford house too.
Its very small but was took by a CHARLES LAW , Photographer of 12 Bridge street.
Would love to see a full size image of this!!!!!!

One real mystery, our house i think had a makeover att some point re design even. Casement windows at the rear suggest 1920 onwards as does the front porch doors. Maybe the house was renamed then... But it allready had a number by now. AND also the chiselled out name montlucan is on the same stone as the date 1883. so is it likely a new stone frontage would have a build date reinscripted?
Or maybe that was the name beteen 1883 and 1890? I have nothing between these dates.

Thats it for my trip to the records office they did say the library has lots more photos but they are shut so onto the bank for a look at the deeds next i think!!!
really want to see some building plans etc  , they must be drawings somewhere!!!!