RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: kob3203 on Saturday 08 January 11 08:22 GMT (UK)
-
I was in the UK a couple of months ago, and managed to look at the records myself at The National Archives in Kew. Unfortunately no luck.
But just because I didn't find the record doesn't necessarily mean it isn't there!
Summary of request, with up-to-date information (03:09 GMT, Thursday 18 Jan 2011)
Still hoping for a lookup in the Queen's South Africa (QSA) Medal Roll... ;D
Name: Walter Williams
Regiment: RGA/RHA/RFA. (Stories say Royal Horse Artillery (RHA), WWI record says he served previously in Carmarthen RGA)
Rank: These three are the most likely from the stories we have - 'Gunner-Driver', 'Farrier-Sergeant', or 'Shoeing-Smith'
Regimental Number: Unknown. (Although I'm keeping my fingers crossed that 'Williams, W, 18311' might match. Also we can't rule out 'Williams, W, Gunner, 13269, 2 bat, RFA' and 'Williams, W, Gunner, 92302, G bat, RFA')
TIA!
Original first post, edited to include information from replies to this thread
Not sure whether the lookup offer posted on this board covers just the WO100/137-139 Royal Artillery, or the WO100/140-145 RFA as well, but it's worth asking.
Only have a name, Walter Williams, and the story that he was in the Royal Horse Artillery in the 2nd Boer War, the lead rider on a gun team [Edit: so maybe a 'driver'?]. So I'm guessing his regiment was either the RHA, RA, or RFA.
[Edit 12Jan: New story! Maybe he was a 'farrier-general' (see aussienl's first post here, ninth one in this thread), so any regiment with horses is possible, but I still think an RHA/RFA/RA links is our best lead]
Two possible regimental numbers have come up from various online records, both in the RFA - "13269 Williams, W" and "18311 Williams, W".
[Edit: now have three possibles (thanks Trevor) - hopefully the QSA Medal Roll will confirm whether the first name of any of these men is Walter:
Williams, W Gunner 13269 2 bat rfa
Williams, W 18311
Williams, W Gunner 92302 g bat rfa]
There were also a couple of other "Williams, W" with no regimental numbers given [Edit: Trevor's second reply indicates that these were officers, so not my man]
So I'd be interested in any medal roll entries for any Walter Williams in the RA, RFA or RHA.
Hopefully this will give me a few (not too many I hope!) regimental numbers as leads to take further.
TIA,
Pete
P.S. What was the criteria for being eligible for this medal? I vaguely recall it being on active service for at least 3 weeks, and being under fire (I assume that an artillery-piece being fired in an engagement would count here?)
-
Hi Pete
The criteria for the army for the Queens South Africa medal was that they stepped ashore before the peace was signed.
You need to list the 'online records' you have looked at. Have you tried the medal rolls on Ancestry? They are not complete, but it is a good starting point. They should match the RA rolls available on DVD. There are often two entries for the same man - they introduced a supplementary roll for men there in 1901. These are indexed separately by Ancestry, so the name in the index may be different.
The RGA and RFA also used horses to move their guns, so just because he was mounted does not make him RHA. Have you found him in any census as a soldier?
Ken
-
hello pete
there are 16 service records as well for r art and 11 or more in boer war records , so a place of birth or date anything more concrete would help to pin point him
trevor
-
Whoops! Forgot to mention that!
He was born around 1868-1869 in Llanelly, Carmarthenshire - the big coastal steel and tin town (not Llanelli, Glamorganshire - that one's a small village in the Brecon Beacons)
-
hi pete
after checking properly those service records with the info you provided none are your walter , as to the boer war records found the same 2 as you plus 2 gunners as well
gunner 92302 g bat rfa
" 13269 2 bat rfa
those other williamses without no,s are bound to be officers i got caught like you on my first count of the records
trevor
-
Thanks Trevor,
So four three [Edited: I was half-asleep when I wrote this and didn't spot I had 13269 twice!] possible leads to follow up on my next visit to Kew (mid 2011):
Williams, W Gunner 13269 2 bat rfa
Williams, W 18311
Williams, W Gunner 92302 g bat rfa
Hopefully the WO100 QSA Medal Rolls will give the first names of these three men.
(However, I now suspect that the first one (13269) isn't him - I found WWI records in WO372 (TNA Online) for a William Williams, 13269, Corporal/Sergeant RFA)
Thanks again,
Pete
-
Thanks Ken
(didn't spot your reply when I made my first response!),
My online finds are simply free search results, since I have no paid subscriptions (you've already given me a lot of useful leads on this man in my "Could a stint in the Boer War really fit into this man's life?" thread here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,499343.
The theory (just a theory, and one of many!) I'm working on at present is this:
He could have enlisted with the RA after the death of his first wife (mid 1890's) for the standard 6+6years. The first 6 years active service would have seen him in the 2nd Boer War, where the incident with the gun carriage occurred. In 1901 he could have transferred home to the reserve (perhaps because of his injury?) and started his second family while still in the reserve.
After his 6 years in the reserve ended he could have enlisted with the militia.
In WWI (aged 42) he could then have rejoined the RHA and perhaps been on home service (i.e. no medal entitlement)? Possibly promoted to sergeant?
As I said before, just a theory, one of many!
I only posted this new thread since I thought neil1821's sticky "Lookup Offer: Medal Rolls" might give me a few more detailed leads (i.e. regimental numers/units) to follow up on.
(I didn't think any QSA medal rolls were online (except some naval ones). Even looking now I can't find any QSA medal roll on Ancestry!?)
Thanks again,
Pete
-
Peter
I think on Ancestry it will come under the all encompassing "Military Campaign Medals 1793-1972"
Ady :)
-
Hey Pete,
Think you can write off the gunners, the story from dad was that he was a farrier general???
I am also busy with emails with a fellow with the south african website of the boer war will forward you his email later
Bronnie
-
That would explain why he was known as "Wat y gof" !!! Auntie Bonnie said that's Welsh for blacksmith, but couldn't understand why Walter would be known as such. Guess what a farrier does - makes horse-shoes!
But if your dad says he was a farrier-general (general as in general-purpose, not military rank!), does that mean he wasn't the lead rider on a gun-team in the RHA??
So maybe an alternative lead is to look for any Walter Williams with the rank of "farrier" in the 2nd Boer War (any regiment with horses would include farriers, so I assume we'd broaden the search).
[Edit: just found an interesting bit about RFA farriers and gunner-drivers here in this 1914 pamphlet by Rudyard Kipling http://www.kipling.org.uk/rg_newarmy_notes.htm#farriers. So was Walter a 'gunner-driver', a 'farrier-sergeant' or perhaps just 'shoeing smith'? ]
(I really love this part of the research - working through the half-remembered stories to get to the small nugget of truth that leads to the first documentary evidence...)
P.S. I wouldn't write off anything yet. Until we find that first vital bit of documentary evidence that we can link to Walter with 99% certainty, I wouldn't rule anything out.
-
Peter
I think on Ancestry it will come under the all encompassing "Military Campaign Medals 1793-1972"
Ady :)
Thanks Ady, well spotted!
(But you don't seem to be able to search just the QSA medal roll, so without a paid subscription I'm not going to get far).
I'll keep my fingers crossed that neil1821 sees this thread.
Failing that, I've got some good leads now on two alternative theories to follow up (for free) on my next annual visit to Kew.
-
Still hoping for a lookup in the Queen's South Africa (QSA) Medal Roll... ;D
[Edit: details updated 18 Jan 2011]
Name: Walter Williams
Regiment: RGA/RHA/RFA. (Stories say Royal Horse Artillery (RHA), WWI record says he served previously in Carmarthen RGA)
Rank: These three are the most likely from the stories we have - 'Gunner-Driver', 'Farrier-Sergeant', or 'Shoeing-Smith'
Regimental Number: Unknown. (Although I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the 'Williams, W, 18311' mentioned earlier might match. Also we can't rule out 'Williams, W, Gunner, 13269, 2 bat, RFA' and 'Williams, W, Gunner, 92302, G bat, RFA')
TIA!
Pete
-
I was in the UK a couple of months ago, and managed to look at the records myself at The National Archives in Kew. Unfortunately no luck.
But just because I didn't find the record doesn't necessarily mean it isn't there!