RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: enfrance on Friday 11 February 11 19:52 GMT (UK)
-
Uncle Bill was a lot older than most of my parent’s siblings and was born in Shoreditch in 1886 but didn’t marry my Aunt until 1956.
I have a memory of a photograph of him in uniform looking very elegant and dressed wearing a ‘Boy Scout’ hat, a leather belt and angle strap - at angle across his chest over his shoulder and back to his waist, what looked like jodhpurs and high leather boots. Sadly the photo is lost but it was sepia. Perhaps he's lost his horse? ::) But he never mentioned having anything to do with horses.
I have made a search among the Army medal cards and found 3 entries for William George Little. What is very interesting is that one record is for the Royal West Kent Regiment.
It is interesting because I am also researching a relative of my father who also served with the RWKR. There is a slight possibility that these two men knew each other. So whilst Walter James Bishop was born in Soham, Cambs and William George Little was born in Shoreditch, is it likely they would have joined up at the same recruitment base and at the same time?
Is it possible that the uniform with the Boy scouts hat would have been worn by a RWKR soldier?
The other two soldiers listed in the medal card records were in the Hertfordshire Regiment and the Machine Gun Corps.
Any help identifying Uncle Bill’s past in the Army would be appreciated.
Mike
-
hello mike just having a look at pension records for2 different w g little,s thing is do you have any more info on him such as wifes name siblings names parents only one i,ve found states his n o kin is an emile little 20 dennetts grove peckham .
trevor
-
Uncle Bill was a lot older than most of my parent’s siblings and was born in Shoreditch in 1886 but didn’t marry my Aunt until 1956.
I have a memory of a photograph of him in uniform looking very elegant and dressed wearing a ‘Boy Scout’ hat, a leather belt and angle strap - at angle across his chest over his shoulder and back to his waist, what looked like jodhpurs and high leather boots. Sadly the photo is lost but it was sepia. Perhaps he's lost his horse? ::) But he never mentioned having anything to do with horses.
I have made a search among the Army medal cards and found 3 entries for William George Little. What is very interesting is that one record is for the Royal West Kent Regiment.
It is interesting because I am also researching a relative of my father who also served with the RWKR. There is a slight possibility that these two men knew each other. So whilst Walter James Bishop was born in Soham, Cambs and William George Little was born in Shoreditch, is it likely they would have joined up at the same recruitment base and at the same time?
Is it possible that the uniform with the Boy scouts hat would have been worn by a RWKR soldier?
The other two soldiers listed in the medal card records were in the Hertfordshire Regiment and the Machine Gun Corps.
Any help identifying Uncle Bill’s past in the Army would be appreciated.
Mike
Sounds like Legion Of Frontiersmen to me... ;)
-
Scrimnet, I can just imagine him in such a regiment! :)
Trevor, I have the 1901 census record of WG Little of Peckham. However, the birth date is wrong and this other record is most likely Uncle Bill.
His father was Thomas Little, born in Newcastle on Tyne, his mother was Emma and he had three younger siblings, Stanley, Henry and Clara. In 1901 they lived in Newton Avenue, Acton. The fact that he was a fitter's mate confirms to some extent that this is the correct William Little as he was always around cars or wagons.
I have yet to find him in the 1911 census but perhaps he was in the Forces at that time being 25 years old.
I know he lived in Mersey Road, Walthamstow, E17 with my Aunty Nell (nee Eleanor Brittle) during WW2.
The Army was to be my other line of research as I've not got on very well with his civil life. I'm not sure if this can help your enquiries but in the meantime many thanks for your interest.
Mike
-
Mike,
Is there any evidence or "family legend" to suggest that WG was previously married & widowed before he married Eleanor Brittle?
If so, then I believe I might have found him...
Adrian
-
Adrian,
I've had word with my cousin and we are under the impression that there may have been some 'histroy' around Uncle Bill. Mostly due to the age difference between him and our parents and the rest of our Aunts and Uncles. However, we have no definitive proof of what you are suggesting. Nor have I thought to look! He was nearly ten years Eleanor's senior and although they lived together with Eleanor's sister Emily for many years they didn't marry until 1956.
If any of your fella's history has him for instance living in London or working as either a motor mechanic or chauffeur it may well be Bill.
Anyway, perhaps you could have a look for us,
Many thanks, Mike
-
hi mike
i,ve checked the pension records i found and they aren,t your w g little .
also looked at 1911 cen and as you say he doesn,t show , as to his being in the army at that time if you look at the cen results for w little including wg there are a few that show as being in the army overseas and none of them have a correct birth place , now is it pos that he could have emigrated for a few years as i,ve had a quick look and a lot show under the name of w little ?
and as you ,ve just added more pos info for adrian on his post , as to the pos of w g being married before eleanor i,ve found 3 pos in 1901-03-07 with 2 of them in the london area .
also when you say his father and mother are thomas and emma and that this confirms to some extent this is the right w g is that quote fact or what you surmise to be right is thomas and emma his parents !!
trevorScrimnet, I can just imagine him in such a regiment! :)
Trevor, I have the 1901 census record of WG Little of Peckham. However, the birth date is wrong and this other record is most likely Uncle Bill.
His father was Thomas Little, born in Newcastle on Tyne, his mother was Emma and he had three younger siblings, Stanley, Henry and Clara. In 1901 they lived in Newton Avenue, Acton. The fact that he was a fitter's mate confirms to some extent that this is the correct William Little as he was always around cars or wagons.
I have yet to find him in the 1911 census but perhaps he was in the Forces at that time being 25 years old.
I know he lived in Mersey Road, Walthamstow, E17 with my Aunty Nell (nee Eleanor Brittle) during WW2.
The Army was to be my other line of research as I've not got on very well with his civil life. I'm not sure if this can help your enquiries but in the meantime many thanks for your interest.
Mike
-
OK, then - here goes...
In the 1911 census, look at the William George LITTLE, age 24 (approx. birth year 1887) living in Fulham with wife Margaretta May and daughter Margaretta Maud. He's a Commercial Motor Driver for (I think it says) Gamage's, the big department store on Holborn Circus, so maybe a mail-order delivery man or similar.
William George LITTLE married Margretta [sic] May DELLAR (born 30 May 1879) in Brentford RD, Q3 1907.
Margaretta [sic] Maud was born in Fulham in Q1 1909.
This man has a WW1 pension record on Ancestry, indexed as William John LITTLE (search for Last Name Little and Regimental Number 097610). A couple of pages do say William John, but most have William George, and the next-of-kin info matches. It gives Margaretta Maud's DoB as 4 Feb 09, and reveals that there was also a son, Harry Edwin born 20 Oct 1907 - the missing child on the 1911 census, who can actually be found as Edwin LITTLE X [sic], staying with Margretta's widowed mother Mary DELLAR X [sic!] at the address given in the pension record as WG's "address on discharge".
So this WG was M2/097610 Private - rising to Serjeant - William G Little of the (Royal) Army Service Corps, who enlisted on 10/5/15 and was transferred to Z Class Army Reserve on 24/2/19. He seems to have spent quite a while in hospital with appendicitis, for which he received a pension, and another "personal" ailment... for which he didn't. :)
This man was born in Hackney (Shoreditch is part of Hackney borough, I think?) around the last week of March 1886, as he gave his age as 29 years and 41 days at his medical exam on 8 May 1915. His occupation in civilian life is Motor Fitter & Driver, and he served in various Motor Transport companies of the Army Service Corps.
When looking at the pension record, remember to go backwards as well as forwards from the page Ancestry thinks is the first! It takes you to Image 4524, but you need all the images from 4520 to 4542!!
Margretta May LITTLE nee DELLAR died in Uxbridge district in Q2 1956 - the very same quarter in which your WG married Eleanor BRITTLE.
I've even found a photo of Margretta and daughter ...
http://www.dellerfamily.com/p3176.htm
Could this be your man???
Adrian
-
Trevor, at the moment it is surmise but it may be ultimately verifiable given time. It does however, give me a good lead which is more than I got. :)
Adrian, I have printed out all the posts as I will need to browse them 'cos its all so comprehensive.
Its actually quite frustrating as I have spent many happy hours trying to make the connections and you come up with a load of possibilities in such a short time.
I'm very grateful to you all. I will have a good read tomorrow and see if there is anything I can actually verify quickly.
Mike
-
Trevor and Adrian,
In my search for William George I had seen the 1911 census record – saved it - but dismissed it purely on the basis of the address and the fact that we had never heard of any other family connected with WG. Now, having it pointed out again that he was a driver and with so much other detail I am beginning to think it may well be him.
I’ve drawn a time line to see how the events we know pan out and it is difficult to see how he could have been involved with the Canadians or SA prior to 1919 when he was transferred to the Z Class Army Reserve. During that time he was busy getting married at age 24, 1907, was at home in 1911 for the census, joined up in 1915 and served through to some time after 1919. Could he have squeezed in some time with the Mounties in that time? I suppose after 1919 he could have been anywhere and in the photo I refer to he could easily have been 35 plus. There is an unaccounted for gap from 1919 to around 1939 when he was living with my Aunt.
Trevor, your question about whether he emigrated for a time may well be relevant. When I researched the uniform I found lots of info about the Canadian Mounties and South African police wearing the Stetson.
This is a quote from the history of the Stetson hat; Its trade names of "Boss of the Plains " and "Pony Hat " reflected its largely cowboy clientčle, and it is listed on inventories of stores of Canadian units headed for South Africa as "Hat, Cowboy." Stetsons had been worn unofficially by members of the North-West Mounted Police (NWMP) since 1895, an increasing number of whom preferred it to the standard-issue white pith helmet. Its adoption for use by Canadian units in South Africa was probably due to the fact that many members of Canada's second contingent were former members of the NWMP.’ There is also mention of a leather boot they wore called the Strathcona boot.
So your question could be, did William volunteer and serve with the Canadians or in the SA police? This may go some way to explain the uniform Bill was wearing in the original photo I can remember. This throws up yet another avenue for me to follow. My wife will be soooo chuffed. My family already call her the ‘heritage widow’. :)
Of all the other amazing detail perhaps the most telling is your last two lines, Adrian, that Nell and William were married almost immediately after Margaretta May’s death in 1956. Almost as though the only obstacle was publishing the banns!
Equally, the icing on the cake in the form of a photograph is amazing. Perhaps I may try to trace the Dellar family to see what happened to the children, after all we would be sort of cousins.
I will spend some happy time following your pension and service trails. If I get stuck perhaps I can come back to you for some more advice.
Once again thank you for all your help. Its fascinating stuff. To put a face on the characters in this saga I’ve attached an old photo of Bill posing by one of the motors he regularly drove together with Nell next to him and her two sisters Marion and Winifred, my mother. Judging by the ages I would put this photo around 1920 or a bit earlier and guess the motor is a Daimler as it has a fluted radiator cover.
-
Hi there,
I have found a photograph of Winifred annie Teresa LITTLE born October 1895 is this any relation. I note there is a photograph of Winifred Little on this page.
Please get in touch if the photograph is your family and I will post it to you.
Sue
-
Hello Sue,
Many thanks for your interest. The Winifred you refer to is in fact my mother who was a Brittle, as was William's second wife Eleanor (Nell) and another sister Marion.. They are the three girls in the photo.
We have another branch of the Little's in our family - my maternal great grandmother - but I have not gone down that route yet.
Perhaps if later I come across a possible connection I might give you a shout that would be very helpful.
In the meantime, thanks for contacting me. It does beg the question, is there any connection between the Little's you have and mine?
Regards
Mike
-
Hi Mike
The Little family is not in fact my line. I rescued a photo on a carte vista of a little girl because it had her full name and date of birth on it as well as the date the photograph was taken in London. One day I hope to reunite it with someone who would like it. I had a quick look on the 1901 census but couldn't match her up, I've not seriously tried to find her relations before, but hopefully someone will google her and be sent to this website.
Good luck in your researching and thanks for replying.
Sue