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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Peter Goodman on Monday 16 May 11 04:09 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find details of my grandfather Thomas Clement Goodman whom I am told enlisted in a cavalry regiment in WW! and who served mainly in France and belgium. The family says that he was involved at the very last cavalry charge by a mounted British team in WWI which I assume means at Lessines in belgium. He returned from war and lived on to the age of 94. I suspect that it could have been the 18th Hussars and have found a record for a Lance corporal reg No 7679 but not sure if this is the correct ID. Can anyone advise how I can take this research further?
Regards, Peter Goodman Sydney Australia
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Do you have his medals?
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Peter
There are other records of 'Thomas Goodman', with cavalry links, among the Medal Index Cards listed by the National Archives, but none show a middle name which is quite normal.
As well as the 18th Hussars corporal, there are:
GS/7542, Corps of Dragoons, later renumbered as D/13206.
6514, 7th Dragoon Guards, saddler serjeant.
If you can trace which unit was in the charge, you may find one of these will match.
A
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hi peter
i,ve looked at the medal card you talk of and it needs an expert to decipher it as there is mention of clasps to ine of the medals , now this is where i stick my neck out yet again if he was in a cavalry reg i would think he was a regular soldier not just a conscript for ww1 as i would think it would take some time to train up a man for such a reg i,ve looked in service/pension records and none appear for him but there is a t goodman in the boer war records in the 5th ( princess charlotte of wales ) dragoon guards a long shot i know but hopefullly some one else with far more knowledge will sort it out for you , plus apart from that medal card for ww1 there,s no service record available so it must be part of the burnt records of ww2 , the main thing would be to get the medal card deciphered really .
also do you have a date of birth and have you looked in the censuses to see if he,s there in 1911& 1901 it may help sort out if he was a regular soldier or not , just checked both of them and no he,s not in the army so that theory goes out the window in 1901 he,s down as a tailors assistant with parents john and ellen johns occ tailor and in 1911 he,s a picture postcard dealer married 5 yrs to greta may .
regards
trevor
ps i,d written this just before Ainslie posted so he beat me to it .
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7679 Was a pre War Regular he looks like an original Old Contemptible with date of Entry to war Aug 1914
He was entitled to 1914 Star,British War and Victory Medals.
He was also entitled to the Clasp and Roses for 1914 Star ie he was under fire from enemy guns before Nov 22 1914 (cut off date for Clasp and Roses)...thats the last part of the listing on the MIC ...IV etc are just the Issue dates etc.
The back of the card is all about that he is on list of names supplied to be eligible for Clasp and Rose(not all men were)
The profile fits its a shame theres no address on back of medal index card to back it up!
6514 Can be discounted as he was dead in Oct 1914
The other guy Ainslie found is a post 1916 entry to war
There is a Tom C Goodman on the Medal Index cards as Army Service Corps Remounts Section so they also had horse links but that could be throwing a spanner in works!
Still inconclusive but hope it helps
Ady :)
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thanks Ady that,s another piece of info on the clasps i hadn,t come across before , also those that can be discounted helps as well .
regards
trevor
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thanks guys for all of the comments - much appreciated. I do not think that he was a regular. he was born in 1881 and married in 1905 to greta bearcroft. They had 3 children in 1908, 1911 ( my grandfather) and in 1914. We think he separated from his wife during the war or immediately after. As I said all I have is a relative in England who says that she knows he joined a cavalry regiment and fought in France / belgium and was at the last famous cavalry charge. So that is why I thought of the Hussars or Dragoons.
No, I do not have any medals or any other details I'm afraid. My father was in the Guards Armoured Brigade in the Seecond War ( Grenadier Guards) but was unfortunately kiiled just east of Lingen in April 1945 - so we have no one to bounce questions off.
If any other thoughts I would be grateful.
Regards, Peter Goodman
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t mo - you have the correct guy - in 19911 census he was a Picture Postcard salesman! and married to great May Bearcroft living in Mitcham.
Peter
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Peter
Do you have the Birth Cert for 1914 child? If so does it have any details about father ie was he a soldier?
Ady :)
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mmm45 - No I dont have the birth certificate for Hubert born in 1914 - I have the one for my father born in 1911 and he was definitely NOT a soldier then. I do not think that he was NOT a professional soldier in that sense, but that he was conscripted. My father enlisted voluntarily into the Guards in 1942 and I was told that he did so to avoid what happened to HIS father - that is if he enlisted voluntarily then he would have more choice in the regiment that he joined.
I also heard that his regiment were to be sent to Turkey but just before they went he fell and broke a leg and could not travel - the ship was apparently sunk en route to Turkey. Again this may simply be a family myth - so I am not being much help I'm afraid.
Regards, Peter
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hi all just did a google search on last british cavalry charge ww1 and on one of the links there is a question and answer the answer being that it was a sdn of the 7th dragoons that did the charge at leesen on 11 th nov 1918 at 10.50 ten minutes before the ceasefire .
as an aside peter i take it you are aware you can apply for your dads service record as next of kin ?!
regards
trevor
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GS7452 Is looking like a prime candidate.He is definately a post 16 entry to war and a cavalryman.
Conscription Act came into law in 1916
Every part of jigsaw helps.Need to find someone whose records survive with similar numbers see if anything can be gleaned from them
6514s Service Record is on ancestry ive gone through
but the other guys records arent mixed in with it.
Ady
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Thanks t mo and mmm45 for your responses overnight ( my time!). The only thing I can add at present is that Thomas Goodman was born on May 3rd 1881 in Pancras ( St Pancras?). So assuming he joined up in say, 1916, he would have been 35 at the time. I would have thought that this was quite old for a cavalryman? Or was it the norm to take any able bodied person? He was quite tall - said to be about 6 foot 2 or 3 inches. It is possible as you say that he could be GS7452 but although I subscribe to Ancestry I have limited access to Military records. Can you please advise me any records of this person to see if they tally at all. It is possible also that the person that you said who was in the Army Service Corps Remounts Section could be linked - as again he was connected with horses by the sounds.
t mo - when you say that I can get service records did you mean of MY FATHER in WW2 or can I also apply in respect of my grandfather? If so how do I go about this? Would it be possible to write to the Dragoons or Hussars to see if we can tap into their records or have they delegated that responsibility now to National Archives?
It seems the war in Turkey continued after the end of the war in Europe. I note that there was another cavalry charge over there ( maybe more than 1). I dont think he ever got to turkey but his regiment may have done.
Thanks again for your input. Peter
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Peter
Doubtful that the Hussars and Dragoons museums have any "other ranks" personal records.The Service records that survive are at the NA Kew and what survived the Blitz are on ancestry.
Ill have a look at records again tomorrow.
Remounts were usually manned by older soldiers but as ASC he isnt cavalry.
Ady
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hi peter
it,s your dads record you can get it will cost you £30 ( don,t know what that equates to in aus dollars ) and you would need a death certificate go to this site it tells you all about applying and you can download the forms as well , www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html , as to your grandads service record they are all online at ancestry for ww1 that is what is left of them as up to 60%were destroyed in a bombing raid in 1942 so anyone who finds one is very lucky it is only the medal roll cards that survived hence why it can be a nightmare sometimes to find info on a soldier .
as to dragoons and hussars i meant to say earlier if you do a google search for hussars or dragoons regimental museums you should be able to find out if any info is available from them also it is worthwhile asking on these 2 sites as well 1914-1918 the long long trail -and the great war forum it,s just pos they may be able to help as well you,ve nothing to lose and all to gain .
have you any pics of either your dad or grandad in uniform as it,s always good to see the old boys i feel and puts the posts in perspective if you have a face to a name .
well it,s our turn now for a bit of kip i think your just up and were off to bed , speak tomorrow peter have a good day
regards
trevor
ps i was writing this as Ady was posting so delete ref to museums