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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Paddy12 on Wednesday 08 June 11 21:57 BST (UK)
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Hi.
I am trying to locate the burial place of my grand uncle who was buried somewhere in SE London in 1955. All I know is that the undertakers were Messrs., Knox Brothers, 204 Rotherhithe New Road, London, SE16. I have googled this firm and see they are no longer in existence. Does anybody know if the same firm still operates at a different location or if not would their records still be available anywhere.
Thanks.
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Hi Paddy
My co-moderator Valda has written an excellent guide to burials in London here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,403492.0.html
My first suggestion would be to look at a map of the area where your grand uncle lived before he died and see which cemeteries are the nearest.
At the moment, I don't know if Knox are still in business, I can't find them in the phone book. If they have been taken over by another firm, their records may survive. If they have ceased trading, the records have most probably been destroyed by now. You could also try ringing F A Albin who are local funeral directors and may know what happened to the business. I wouldn't build your hopes up about this method of research though.
Dawn
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Thanks Dawn.
He lived in London W7. It was while a patient in St. Thomas' Hospital he died. A record I seen held at City of Westminster archives states his body was removed to a mortuary by Knox Brothers Undertakers. My grandfather travelled to arrange his funeral and stayed with inlaws in SW London. One member of the family remembers Nunhead being mentioned but a I had a gravesearch conducted there and that proved unsuccessful. I would really like to visit his grave as I do not believe anybody has been since his committal. My only other option is to search cemetery by cemetery and I do not like the thoughts of doing that!!
Thanks again,
Paddy.
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Hi Paddy
Nobody likes the thought of that sort of search but unfortunately, in London especially, that is the reality.
Knox Brothers may have had the hospital contract to remove the body, but he may have been buried by another firm.
Have you tried cemeteries closer to W7?
I don't know if these are relevant
KNOX BROTHERS 184 Mitcham Road, Tooting,
SW17 9NJ
020 8672 2616
KNOX BROTHERS 53 Haydons Road,
Wimbledon, SW19 1HG
020 8540 2755
Knox Bros had 5 shops in SE London in the 1968 London phone book.
Dawn
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I've wrote to both those firms and am awaiting a response. Do you think them 5 shops were owned by the one Knox Brothers or by separate families. Actually he didn't die in the hospital. As a patient he disappeared and was recovered from the Thames. His body was moved from the pier directly to a morgue. I might also contact F A Albin for his advise on the matter. I emailed the hospital but they never responses. Thanks again for your help.
Paddy
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Traditional family funeral directors tended to be run by members of the same family, not always the same branch though. My father's business started in the late 1850's, split in half in the 1940's and is still going today but the other half is now run by a different branch of the family. His half was taken over by another firm in the 1980's when he sold it, still trades with the 'old' family name but he has nothing to do with the business. I can tell you though that his business records weren't kept dating right back to the beginning of trading.
I hope you get a reply to your enquiries but I wouldn't build my hopes up.
Although painstaking, I would pursue the cemetery enquiry route.
Dawn
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Have you tried looking on www.deceasedonline.com
I found a lot of my family from Mitcham and Wimbledon on there
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Hi Mark.
Thank you for your suggestion however it proved unsuccessful. No results have shown up for my search. I'm out of options at this time, I can only search cemetery by cemetery but this will take alot of time and money.
Thanks again for taking the time to write.
Regards,
Paddy.
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Hi
There are 5 London boroughs who have put their cemetery records on Deceased Online (see the London burial guide for further details). They are Brent, Camden, Havering, Islington and Merton. In all there are 32 London boroughs plus the City of London. Three other London boroughs have their own cemetery records online Kingston-upon-Thames, Richmond-upon-Thames and Barking and Dagenham (though the latter is currently unavailable).
W7 would be the Paddington area therefore the City of Westminster (though Paddington Cemetery is now owned by Brent - records not online though).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W_postcode_area
In SE London the two London boroughs for St Thomas' hospital would be Lambeth and Southwark. Southwark has three cemeteries as does Lambeth, plus an independently owned cemetery in Streatham.
Unless you are certain there was a burial you should also request a search through cremation records which are kept separately from burial registers.
If you are not sure of the cemetery, the search (excluding privately owned cemeteries) would be by London borough not by individual cemetery.
If he is buried with another family member that might widen the search otherwise those are the three most likely London boroughs to make a start with.
Regards
Valda
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Hi Paddy,
Just read your message, just wondered if there :) could be an article in the paper about his disappearance and his death, maybe it's worth looking into, there might be some info there.
Hope you find what you are looking for.
Jan
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Hi Jan,
Thanks for your suggestion. All help is gladely appreciated. I am no nearer to finding his grave. My last surviving gran aunt attended the funeral and she "sort of" remembers Nunhead but is not too sure. However a gravesearch conducted shows he was not interred there. I do not know how to go about checking the newspapers or what newspapers were in print at that time, but it is a good suggestion though. I live outside the UK and it is difficult for me to get to the cemeterys etc. Searching them individually via the postal system is very time and money consuming.
Regards,
Paddy.
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Hi Paddy,
I know what you mean, I live in Lancashire, but I did have lots of relatives in London cause my Dad was born there, so I know some of his family are buried at Abney Park Cemetery in Hackney, Stoke Newington. Try looking on line for what newspapers were around that time. Wonder if there were any police reports on the incident. A lot of libraries have info on the newspapers, but I don't know what is online. Hope you find what you are looking for. :)
Jan
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Hi Jan,
My grand uncle first moved to Lancashire from Ierland before moving to London. I have searched all ther main cemeteries in SE and SW London since my last post and have found no entry for him. Its getting frustrating at this stage!! The police were invloved at the time but I'm not sure if they'll divulge any information. Could you advise who or what department of the police I could contact? They ruled out foul play at the time and recorded an open verdict. I have tried seaching The London Gazette and The Times for those dates but nothing is coming up. I feel that I cannot do too much from my desk here, I think a trip to London may be called for!
Thanks for your suggeations though, much appreciated.
Regards,
Paddy.
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Hi Paddy,
What details do you have on your uncle, name, date of birth, date of death, etc., any middle names. Not sure what papers were out then, let me know and will see if I can find anything out.
Jan
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Hi Jan.
Would you have any objection to emailing me privately. There is some information I would not like to put on a public forum. My address is (*)Thank you,
Paddy.
Moderator comment: email address removed in accordance with Rootschat policies. Please exchange information by personal message
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Hi Paddy
I would extend the search back to W7 where he was last known to be living or consider that he was cremated.
If you chose not to share the name and date of death of your grand uncle you will find that people are not so willing to help with your search. Some chatters may be put off if they think it has all being done behind the scenes.
Please note that many people find the site using internet search engines and if the details aren't posted, you might miss out on potential links.
Dawn
(Co-moderator for London & Middlesex)
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Hi Dawn,
I have no objection to giving name and date of death online, but there is more information which would assist in searching and I don't want to post that on public forums. It's very sensitive information and could upset people who are still alive.
Thanks,
Paddy.
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Hi Dawn,
As I am newish to this site, can you tell me how I send a personal message.
Thanks
Jan
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Hi Paddy,
Will contact you when I know how to send a personal message. Do you have his full date of death, the certificate should tell you where he died and who was the informant. You mentioned Nunhead in one message, this use to be part of Surrey. I have ancesters on my Father's side buried there.
Jan
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Hi Jan. Thank you, I didn't see any option for private message so that's why I included my email. Apologies for causing turmoil! The 11th Oct 1955 is the full date. Anything else I would rather keep for a PM.
Paddy.
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There are 2 ways of sending a pm.
Either
Click on the small green scroll under a chatters avatar on the left of the screen, if it is glowing bright green they are currently online
Or
Click on their user name on the left of the screen which will bring up their profile box, under additional information is the 'send personal message' option
Hope this helps
Dawn
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Hello again.
I have recently discovered that the Funeral Home run by Knox Brothers that operated at 204 Rotherhithe New Road was purchased by F.A. Albin in 1971 from Anne Birch. I have contacted F.A. Albin but they do not possess the burial records as far back as 1955 for this company. I wonder does anybody know of the whereabouts of Anne Birch or any of her family??
I recently visited West London for a funeral and I noticed alot of small cemeteries on my travels, most of which I had never heard of and which are not listed anywhere on the internet....would anybody know of any such cemeteries around South or South East London, apart from the obvious ones such as Nunhead etc.
I would appreciate any information that may steer me in the right direction.
Many thanks.
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My father ran Knox brothers at Rotherhire New Rd. Unsure when he joined but it may been 1963/64. My bedroom used to be above the mortuary for two years after I was born in November 64, before Knox brother closed and we moved to Downham. I believe it closed in 66.
My father was then out of work for 6 months before joining Chapels and Son, later to become Francis Cahpels and son, before being taken over by the great Southern group.
Not much help I know sorry
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Hi Legindb64
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
Old topics are never deleted, as you have found this one from 2011/12.
Thank you for your comment.
Anyone else who is still active here and also receives a notification that you have posted on this topic may come back and answer as well.
Dawn