RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 30 June 11 21:59 BST (UK)
-
Hiya all
Can anyone help me with a family from Belgium?
I am looking for any information on a Raphael Bouault (c1883) and his wife Irma (c1883) who came to England as refugees around the time of WW1 and settled in Gloucestershire where Raphael died in 1934 and Irma in 1939
Raphael was a musician who attended the Belgium Conservatoir of Music but other than that we know very little about the family before they came to England and dont really know where to start looking
Thanx in advance
Willow x
-
Have you any idea from which part of Belgium they came?
By coincidence some Belgian refugees lived in my present house during WW1, the husband was a doctor from Bruges and he was captured by the Germans and worked in a field hospital.
There is a street named after him in that town. His wife and family came to my town and lived in this house supported by the local Church, returning to Belgium after the war.
Some present members of the congregation were trying to piece the story together and by another coincidence we had just returned to the U.K after living in Belgium for quite some years . I had brought with me the latest outdated telephone directory for friend`s addresses etc, it covered an extensive area and in it we found descendants living not in Bruges but another town. I must say it was not a common name so if you know their home town in Belgium I may be able to give a little help. Viktoria.
-
Hiya Willow....I have found a family tree from a lady in UK
Bouault - 1902 -1910 Antwerpen , Belgium
this lady has posted her address and her e-mail address...her name is Pam Mercier ??
does this name mean anything to you ?
allan :)
-
http://www.familienaam.be/
http://www.infobel.com/en/belgium/
- there seem to be very few persons by this name.
"Conservatoire Royal de Musique de Bruxelles" would have been the place he attended, I think.
http://www.archive.org/stream/annuaire17frangoog#page/n521/mode/2up - there is a mention here (near top of right hand page) of Gabrielle Bouault of Malines, aged 10, there in 1891. Maybe a relative?
-
Hiya Guys
Thanx for your help.
Vicktoria unfortunately we know very little about the family and where they came from in Belgium other than the fact that they had two children (*). Raphael also had an illegitimate child (*) who was brought up by Raphael and Irma who is the father of my friend whos tree I am tracing
Allan I haven't come across Pam Mercia maybe she is from a different branch? I will have to have a look at her tree but if there is a connection that will be brilliant
Jorose thank you for the websites I will have a look at them when I have five minutes Gabrielle sounds very interesting maybe they were a musically talented family
Thanx again
Willow x
(*) Moderator Comment:
Edited in accordance with RootsChat policy of not publishing details of living people here, or details of people who may still be living. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc, etc.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
-
If the children they had were born in Belgium, and they died in England, their birthplaces might be listed on their death certificates (after 1969 I think?). I've just nixed the names of the kids as they could potentially still be living if they were b. 1920s say.
-
Hiya
No they both died before 1969 and Paul died 1971 ::) just my luck
Willow x
-
http://www.conservatoire.be/acces.html
- you could possibly contact the Conservatoire royal de Bruxelles directly to see if they have any records (this is the French side)
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/38260/supplements/2339/page.pdf
- is this one of their sons, naturalising in the 1940s?
(There could be very useful records linked to this but they may be difficult to access; if you are in touch with any of his children they would probably be the best ones to make any requests).
Also Irma's death seems to be on freebmd indexed as "Bouallt" with middle names "J J" - might help to get this record.
-
Hiya
Yes that is one of the children. Both Rene and George went back to Belgium to fight during WW2 and I guess were naturalised when they returned.
I had found Irma's death registration along with Raphaels (both misspelt) so I might have to talk to my friend about ordering them
Willow x
-
Hi Willow, I'm looking into my grandmother's history - Lian Marcelle Sabine. Not sure if she was born in Auvers, France or Antwerp, Belgium. However, she had a brother Raphael who was born in Lille, France, born 8 March 1904. They had an uncle, Raphael Bouault. His sister, their mother, was Gladys Sabine, born in Poitiers, France. Their parents were Philomene and Sebastian Bouault. Their father was a colonel in the French army.
I hope this helps you and I'm hoping to find more information regarding my grandmother, Lian Marcelle Sabine Van Beers.
Lizette.
-
Hello Lizette
I am intrigued....you are looking for information about my husbands grandmother, Lian Marcelle Sabine Van Beers. Married name Brookman. I'd like to chat more are you still on Rootchat?
Kim
-
Look at free Bmd , there are 3 Bouault deaths, 20th century.
Many Bouaults in Stroud on FreeBMD.
Irma found by jorose should be yours.
Malines in halfway from Brussel and Anvers , in the province of Anvers (Antwerp), flamish speaking. Malines is MECHELEN in flamish.
You could try to find help from a flamish speaker to search the registers of Mechelen for Gabrielle born around 1881( she was 10 in 1891), and Raphaël, and Irma , unless you found their birthplaces on their death certificates ?
-
Hi Willow, I'm looking into my grandmother's history - Lian Marcelle Sabine. Not sure if she was born in Auvers, France or Antwerp, Belgium. However, she had a brother Raphael who was born in Lille, France, born 8 March 1904. They had an uncle, Raphael Bouault. His sister, their mother, was Gladys Sabine, born in Poitiers, France. Their parents were Philomene and Sebastian Bouault. Their father was a colonel in the French army.
I hope this helps you and I'm hoping to find more information regarding my grandmother, Lian Marcelle Sabine Van Beers.
Lizette.
It helps a lot :
This is very interesting because René Arthur Sabin (Sabin is an extememely rare forename for a man in France and Belgium) BOUAULT (London Gazette, thanks to jorose) . It seems that there are some Sabines in the family.
BOUAULT is a rare name in Belgium, there are more Bouaults in France , they probably came from France.
Unfortunately, The city of LILLE has digitized the registers till 1895 only.
I'll try to find someone who can go to the town archives to see the birth act and tell us what's written, and the parents names.
-
By any chance , do you know when was born Gladys , approximately?
-
Flemish--Vlaamse
French-Flamand
English- Flemish
Someone from Belgium is a Belgian so also with other things,the Belgian capital is Brussels .
People make the mistake of using" Belgium "as an adjective, that is like saying "The England capital is London"instead of "The English capital is London"
The language of the north is Flemish and in Wallonia French.
Brussels is in Flemish Brabant and the language ought to be Flemish but through sheer snobbery people will not speak it.
Flemings will readily oblige in French but Walloons will not speak Flemish.
Sorry to rant but it does irritate slightly that these errors are made. Naturally ,living in Gent for 12 years where we were very happy I have a loyalty to that region.
It was just a fluke that French became the "official" language in a Flemish area when the first king of The Belgians, Leopold the first who was German married a French Princess.
I`ll have to sort my capital letters out!!!!! ::) Viktoria.
-
Gladys was born Feb 27 1927
-
1927 departement de la Vienne 's (where Poitiers is) registers aren't digitized yet.
But direct descendants can ask the mairie de Poitiers a full copy of the birth act (in France direct descendants have the right to ask for copies of the acts of their ancestors regardless of the rule of 100 or 75 years).
-
Coming back to this, a small breakthrough!
At search.arch.be , there is a 1903 marriage for the following in Ukkel (/Uccle):
Raphaël Marie Sabin Bouault, born March 3 1883 Saint-Gilles, a musician, resident Bruxelles, parents Sébastien Bouault and Marie Victorine Gillard
to
Marie Joséphine Bertrand, born Feb 12 1883 Bruxelles, resident Uccle, parents Henri Joseph Bertrand and Adonia Caroline Van Eyck
Witnesses were Robert Bouault (brother of Raphaël), aged 27, resident Moustier-sur-Sambre, George Bouault (another brother), aged 32, resident Ixelles, Louis Bertrand, aged 23, brother of Marie Joséphine , resident Saint-Gilles, and Arthur Delattre, 27, brother in law of Marie Joséphine , resident Ixelles, occupation very interestingly "professeur au Conservatoire"
The 1879 marriage at Tienen of Sébastien Bouault and Marie Victorine Gillard can also be found there.
On the other side,
Raphael who was born in Lille, France, born 8 March 1904
For this look here: http://archives.lille.fr/search?preset=33&view=list
I could not see him, though (Van Beer / Sabine? ) even looking at all the births for 8 March 1904 in Lille, no Raphael. ???