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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Completed Lookups => Topic started by: BewitchedKat1 on Saturday 09 July 11 20:38 BST (UK)

Title: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: BewitchedKat1 on Saturday 09 July 11 20:38 BST (UK)
I would be deeply grateful if anyone were able to shed light on this branch of my family tree, please.

An ancestor, Frank (Francis A.) Comyn, who died at sea in 1917, had previously been living with his wife, Edith Comyn (nee Paynter) at 35 Alexandra Road, Canton, Cardiff.  The news printed re. Frank's death states that he was the son of Annie Noble of Canton, but I don't know anything else about Annie, whether she lived with the couple, what happened to her etc.  I know that Frank and Edith had a daughter known as (E. S.) Violet, but I don't know her name in its entirety or whether she had any siblings.  I also don't know where Frank was born or who his father was, though family rumour suggests that he was born in France.

Any help regarding any of these people would be most gratefully accepted.

With thanks in advance.
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: suzard on Saturday 09 July 11 20:50 BST (UK)
Marriage reg
Francis Albert Comyn
Edith Paynter
Sept qtr 1903
Essex
4a 253
Suz
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: Mort29 on Saturday 09 July 11 20:52 BST (UK)
Given that Frank (Francis Albert) & Edith married (1903) in West Ham Regn District, this could well be the daughter you mention - there are earlier births if you need them  ... I dont know why this birth doesnt show a mothers maiden name tho  ???

Edith Stella V Comyn
Birth registered in Apr-May-Jun Quarter of 1915
Registration district of West Ham

Volume 4a
Page 38



There's something wrong with this Index entry - the image isnt there, and also the FREE INDEX for the 1911 census, shows a Violet c1905, born London with Edith in Cardiff   ???

There are multiple Paynters in this Household ...


This must be her ...

Births Dec 1904
 
 
Comyn  Edith Stella V     W. Ham  4a 38
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: Mort29 on Saturday 09 July 11 21:02 BST (UK)
Having dabbled about in the census, I think you will have to obtain his Marriage Certificate - use Suzards post for the ordering detail, plus West Ham is the District..

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: suzard on Saturday 09 July 11 21:13 BST (UK)
Possibly this is daughter E S Violet marrying

MarriageEdith S V Comyn
Percival Hughes
1924
Swansea
11a 2399

death reg
Edith S V Hughes
age 51
Dec qtr 1955
Swansea
8b 647


Suz
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: suzard on Saturday 09 July 11 21:17 BST (UK)
I would be deeply grateful if anyone were able to shed light on this branch of my family tree, please.

An ancestor, Frank (Francis A.) Comyn, who died at sea in 1917, had previously been living with his wife, Edith Comyn (nee Paynter) at 35 Alexandra Road, Canton, Cardiff.   .

Any help regarding any of these people would be most gratefully accepted.

With thanks in advance.

35 Alexandra Rd Canton Cardiff is where Edith and children Edith S Violet and Albert (possibly Francis Albert) lived with Edith's parents and siblings (Paynter family) ????

no sign of Annie Noble?

Suz
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: Mort29 on Saturday 09 July 11 21:23 BST (UK)
Edith (c1881) et al were born in Cornwall - her Father was a Mariner.

They were already in Wales by 1901 (Cardiff West - RG13/Piece: 4985 Folio: 121 Page: 7), and Edith was in Service in Cardiff St Mary - RG13/Piece: 4982 Folio: 9 Page: 9
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: BewitchedKat1 on Sunday 10 July 11 12:19 BST (UK)
Thank you both for all help with this!  I'll now order Frank's marriage certificate to find further details.  I'm also currently trying to find details of Frank's registration number in the Merchant Navy to try to find the details of his birth &c.  Thank you for finding out about Edith's family as well, and details of their daughter marrying Percival Hughes: both of you have aided research in a big way!  :)
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: Morganllan on Sunday 10 July 11 23:56 BST (UK)
Hello  :)

CWCG has the following details:

Frank Comyn, Ship's Cook, died at the age of 36 on 21st February 1917. His ship was H.M.S. "Princess Alberta", and he was with the Mercantile Marine Reserve. Frank is commemorated on the Plymouth Naval Memorial.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3043354

Princess Alberta's official number is 121288 (records at Kew). She was built in 1905.

Kind Regards
Morgan
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: BewitchedKat1 on Wednesday 13 July 11 17:48 BST (UK)
Hi Morgan - thank you SO much for all of this; I've been struggling to find details of the ship (i.e. the reg. number) for ages, so this is a big help!
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: BewitchedKat1 on Monday 18 July 11 12:23 BST (UK)
I've now obtained a marriage certificate for Frank Comyn, and have discovered that his father, also Francis Comyn, was a "gentleman" by profession - but the latter's wife, Annie, is listed as Annie Noble as witness on son Frank's wedding certificate.  Would anyone have any way of finding details of Francis Snr. and Annie's wedding, please?  I have been unsuccessul with attempts thus far.
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 18 July 11 19:18 BST (UK)
see duplicate post http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,544762.0.html
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: Morganllan on Tuesday 19 July 11 17:58 BST (UK)
....but the latter's wife, Annie, is listed as Annie Noble as witness on son Frank's wedding certificate.  Would anyone have any way of finding details of Francis Snr. and Annie's wedding....

As she is named as Annie Noble on her son's marriage certificate, and on the CWCG record of his death, it is likely that she did not marry Francis Comyn.

Kind Regards
Morgan
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: BewitchedKat1 on Tuesday 26 July 11 10:08 BST (UK)
Thank you Morgan!  In historical terms, does anyone know whether it would have been socially acceptable for Annie to have given Comyn's name to her son even if they weren't married?  I was under the impression that it wouldn't have been.
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: andycand on Tuesday 26 July 11 11:20 BST (UK)
Hi

If his parents were not married then in England, Wales & Scotland the father could not be included on the birth registration unless he was present at the registration and agreed but there was nothing to stop Annie having Comyn as a middle name. Nor is there anything to stop Frank using Comyn as a surname. Most of us researching in Scotland would have come across cases were illigitimate births were registered under the mothers surname but the child then used the reputed fathers surname.

Andy
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: BewitchedKat1 on Tuesday 26 July 11 18:01 BST (UK)
This is v. v. helpful Andy so thank you very much!  :)
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: junerabbit on Tuesday 12 August 14 14:46 BST (UK)
Edith Comyn (nee Paynter) was the sister of my grandfather and like him was born in Egloshayle, Cornwall UK.  where her name was registered as Eaduth.  Her other siblings were:
Frances b. 1876 Torquay Devon, William B. 1877 Torquay died Cardiff August 1886, Mary Josophine b 1878 Egloshayle, Francis (my grandfather) b 1879 Egloshayle, Nellie b 1882 Egloshayle, Kathleen b Egloshayle 1883, Ethel b 1887 Cardiff, Hercules b 1888 Cardiff.
I knew 2 of my great aunts but do not remember meeting Edith but I did meet Albert Comyn (known as Jack) who was a cousin to my father b.1908 and a few years older.  If I remember correctly he was brought up by my great grandparents, but was privately educated at Monkton House School, Cardiff.  I met him when he lived in Bristol.  I have the Paynter family history in Cornwall going back to 1500's.
I also have a photograph of Edith and her sisters taken with my grandfather before he went to the First World War where he was a private with the Liverpool Rifles.
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: BewitchedKat1 on Tuesday 04 August 15 14:37 BST (UK)
junerabbit - thank you so much for all of this information (and apologies for the delay in seeing this!).  Do you happen to know anything else about Albert / Jack?  I would love to find out more.
Title: Re: CENSUS: NOBLE and / or COMYN
Post by: junerabbit on Thursday 06 August 15 13:08 BST (UK)
Hi BewitchedKat1
I know very little of Jack although I do have a snapshot taken with my father and his borther when Jack was probably about ten years old - I only met him first as a child and again later when I would probably been in my very early teens.  I know Edith Paynter married Francis A Comyn in the 3rd quarter of 1903 in West Ham I next traced her to Swansea and found there was a daughter Edith Stella Violet Hughes (nee Comyn) who had 2 children both girls, Nancy Edith Violet Hughes b 1926 and Gladys P V Hughes b 1929.  but there was no mention of Jack.  When I last met him his partner was 'Rosa' and I believe her father had or did own a Leather Works in Bristol which for some reason I recollect was burned out so there may well be newspaper cuttings.  He and Rosa had her sisters son Robin living with them who I believe went on to Sandhurst.

The 1911 Census shows Edith aged 30 living with her parents (Francis and Sophia Paynter) in Alexandra Road, Canton, Cardiff together with daughter Violet Comyn b 1905 London and son Albert Comyn aged 4 b 1907 London.

Two of Edith's sisters also lived in Swansea - Nellie (married to a sea captain) and Ethel (single).
Edith Paynter married to Francis A Comyn died in Swansea aged 67 on 28 October 1948. 

Hope some of this helps and I would love to know more.
Good hunting, I have been amazed at what I have found in my Paynter line over the years.
junerabbit