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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Banffshire => Topic started by: angiek on Wednesday 21 September 11 12:33 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find the baptism of Walter Joss bc1813, Master Mariner who married in Tynemouth and settled in South Shields. One of his children was named James Barron Joss b1838.
I have found two marriages in Gamrie, Banff who could be possible parents ?
Walter Joass m Elizabeth Barron 1/1/1803
James Joass m Jean Barron 4/3/1797.
Can anyone please help ?
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I have had a look in the books of monumental inscriptions for St John's kirkyard in Gamrie and Doune kirkyard in Macduff and there are no inscriptions there which help. Several Joass/Joss which are probably ancestors, but no Joass/ Barron.
Have you found Walter's death certificate to get his father's name? Do you have him on a census giving his birthplace as Gamrie?
You may have to follow up both possible families. If you can get hold of the microfilm reel for Gamrie baptisms and check all the various witnesses it might give a pointer. If one of the two families shows as living in Gardenstown or Crovie with the father a fisherman, it would be more likely than if the family was working the land. If Walter was still in Gamrie in his 20s, he might appear as a witness to baptisms.
Although there are no gravestones to Joass/Barron at Gamrie, the burial register was well kept from about 1822 to 1854. Also the marriage entries for Gamrie can give more detail than usual. Often there are two entries, one in the Gamrie register and one in the Macduff register.
Graham.
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Thanks Graham.
Unfortunately I have very little information to go on. I found an entry for what I believe may be his death on familysearch.org and that suggests that he died on/off the coast of Spain in 1858 age 45.
I am not sure whether there would be a GRO death certificate that I could get hold of for him.
The census records for his wife Philis and children in South Shields reveal that she was a Master Mariners wife and that he was not at home in the census of 1841 and 1851.
I have no hints that he was from Scotland and was only guessing of a possible link to the Walter Joass Elizabeth Barron marriage because of the naming of his first son.
Many thanks..
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Don't give up on this trail as it looks quite promising. There was a good number of fishermen on this coast and many went into the merchant service. Perhaps if you searched for merchant seamen's records you might find something. I've never had to do that, but I'm sure someone here could help you out with advice.
Graham.
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Thank you so much, that's wonderful to find someone with some information.
My great grandmother was Catherine Ann Joss, Alexander's sister. I have the names of Phillis and the rest of the brothers and sister but nothing about Walter senior which is where I had come to a dead end.
I had just identified Walter Joass and Elizabeth Barron and assumed a possible link but another person's tree on Genes Reunited suggested that Walter had remarried in 1807 to Ann McKai, plus I could not find any children of Walter Joass and Elizabeth. Elizabeth also appears to have had a sister Jane Barron who married James Joass 1797, presumably Walter's brother.
I would be very pleased to know more details about Walter Jnr's birth if you have it ?
Catherine Ann's son John Watson Johnson, my grandfather moved to the South coast when my mother was a baby and so all my research has been done online and it is the Johnson/Joss side of the family which I have little information.
Angie.
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I love it when I do a general internet search for family-tree names and then a link leads back here to Rootschat! I just searched for my Joass/Joss family and was lead to this thread. I should have guessed.
My great grandfather (x's) is Walter Joass 1780 of Banffshire. His son Walter was born 22 MAR 1806 at Macduff. Walter sr. married Elizabeth Barron in 1803:
WALTER JOASS
ELIZABETH BARRON/FR306 (FR306)
01/01/1803
155/
10 341
Gamrie
She died young and Walter sr. married my grandmother Ann McKay in 1807:
WALTER JOASS
ANNE MCKAI/FR271 (FR271)
06/08/1807
155/
10 274
Gamrie and Macduff
The son of above Walter sr. and Elizabeth Barron is Walter Barron Joass born 22 MAR 1806 • Macduff, Banffshire. He is the son of Walter's first wife Elizabeth Barron.
Walter Joass jr. married Phyllis Watson in 1833 in Tynemouth. He went on to die in Spain in 1858.He was known as Captain Walter Barron Joss.
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I know that Walter jr.'s mother is Elizabeth Barron because Walter Sr. re-married my grandmother Ann McKay in 1807 after the death of Elizabeth... and his middle name is Barron. I cannot find his birth cert though... Tried under many spellings. It could be simply a missing doc... not sure where it is. It might pop up with further deep-searching.
Were you interested specifically in info on Captain Walter Barron Joss? Or are you interested in the parents as well ,Walter Joass sr. (whom I'm related to) and Elizabeth Barron?
Here is the correct info for Walter Barron Joass's parents:
ELIZABETH BARRON
Parents:
JAMES BARRON/ISOBEL BRUCE
F
28/11/1784
150/
40 23
Cullen
WALTER JOASS
Parents:
ALEXANDER JOASS/HELEN ROSS FR428 (FR428)
M
01/01/1781
155/
20 158
Gamrie and Macduff
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Re: 1806 birth of Walter Barron Joass ... I see that others are having a hard time finding his birth cert and instead quote his military documents for the DOB of 22 Mar 1806 and the death in Spain 1 Aug 1858.
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Report on Walter Joass's death:
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Late to this party. Have some info on family back to Colleonard if any interest.
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Hello Douglas.
I for one would be thankful for any Joass family info... ancestry auto-suggests family tree links to Colleonard for my Alexander Joass but I cannot confirm. There are multiple Alexander Joss/Joass in Banff at the time.
Are you related to Walter Joass that married Elizabeth Barron/Anne McKay?
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My link is via Helen Joass Married James Gray 1833, my gt.gt gt grandparents; daughter to Walter and Ann Mackay.
Have various bits of information on Joass/Voss/Foss/Zoss and varied spellings.
Some posted on Ancestry others in paper format till i finalise links.
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Hi, My husband's 3 x Great Grandmother was Helen Joass, born circa 1805-1872 Gamrie and she married John Lumsden 1796-1890 on 29 June 1827. Just today found this line and low and behold, I go onto Rootschat and see this resurrected post! Can't believe it.
Work in progress. There are soooo many Joass on Scotland's People in Gamrie and Macduff, Banffshire. I look forward to the chase.
Kit
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Hello Kit!
I see that Helen Joass 1805 has the following parents:
JOASS
HELEN
WILLIAM JOASS/ISOBEL PORTER FR489 (FR489)
F
29/08/1805
GAMRIE AND MACDUFF
They married in 1803
JOASS
WILLIAM
ISOBEL PORTER/
04/06/1803
BANFF
I think this is William Joass's birth:
JOASS
WILLIAM
JOHN JOASS/ISOBEL RIDDOCH FR641 (FR641)
M
15/06/1777
GAMRIE AND MACDUFF
John Joass and Isobel Riddoch had a son named Walter which leads me to believe that John might be related to the Walter Joass of this thread. Gotta keep digging...
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I have a baptism document from Walter Joass's sister which appears on the same page as a baptsim for John Joass's daughter Isobel.
It says that John was a farmer at Bloddymire and the same witness Alexander Craig signs both.
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Helen M John Lumsden father William was brother to Alex who married Helen Ross
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Thanks Douglas and Alan, lots to look into.
Kit
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I've purchased the 'Will' of William who died a Burnside in 1847. He mentions son Alexander to whom he gives the remainder of the lease to the Farm at Burnside. His other son George, who also gets the remainder of the lease to Cowsmill Farm. Gifts of £50 go to daughter Helen (married to John Lumsden, Executor) and daughter Isabella (married to George Ritchie, Wheel Wright). Also Isabella and George's daughter, Agnes the amount of £20 and her Grandmother's (Isabella) wardrobe for her 'drawer'. At least, that's how I read it.
I know it isn't about Walter, but thought I'd share. I've seen the other thread regarding Alexander Joass and Helen Ross.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rzk/
Kit
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That's great Kit! Wills are very interesting eh!? There can be a ton of useful info in them... really can help fill a picture.
Where are you at now as far as tracing your Joass kin? Did you get further then William Joass and Isobel Porter?
Also , just putting it out there but did you possibly get your DNA done on ancestry? If so curious if the link shows up. If not , no worries, it's all overrated anyways.
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Hi Alan, it's my husband's side and yes, he has his DNA on Ancestry, uploaded to My Heritage and GedMatch too.
Still work full-time, so fitting research in when I can (part of me would like to take retirement, but I enjoy my job). Slow process. I've just purchased a number of records from SP and taken info from their 'search results' as well, for those not direct ancestors to fill out the Ancestry Tree.
PM me if you want more detail on our tree or anything else.
Best, Kit (in a snowy and cold/frosty south of Edinburgh, Scotland)
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Maybe you already saw this...
But in the other thread about Joasses GR2 shared a transcription of a family grave:
By Alexander and George Joass to the memory of their father William Joass farmer Burnside of Cullen d. 28 Jan. 1847 aged 81; his dau. Agnes d. 17 Oct. 1843 aged 39; their mother Isabella Porter d. at Burnside 17 Mar. 1854 aged 75.
Here's a clear picture of William Joass 1766 grave above:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/231025208/william-joass
I click the grave picture and then "view original" ...which makes it big and easy to read.
Based on that and taking into account what Douglas commented the connection is through William Joass's parents...
JOSS
WILLIAM
ALEXANDER JOSS/MARY DUNCAN FR371 (FR371)
M
01/11/1765
GAMRIE AND MACDUFF
This means Walter Joass 1780 and your hubby's William 1765 are brothers (from different mothers). Walter's mother is Alexander's second wife Helen Ross and William's mother is his first wife Mary Duncan. All that is explained in the other Joass thread that you linked so I won't repeat.
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So... small update.
I'm sure it happens around here all the time but this thread has created some new bonds. Kit and I were able to find a DNA connection between her husband ,associated relatives and myself. It gives me new cousins and Kit gets the confirmation her husband is definitely related to Walter Joass through half brother William 1765.
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Currently looking at Descendants of Alexander Joass 1736-1802 and Mary Duncan 1731-1772 which Walter Joass 1780-1862 is the grandson. Including Alexander Joass 1756-1831 and wives Helen Ross 1745 and Margaret Morrison. Especially interested in finding information on John Joass 1770. Any direct descendants which have their DNA tested I would love to hear from you.
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I believe Walter Joss 1780-1862 married Elizabeth Barron 1774 - Married 1 Jan 1803 Gamrie, Banffshire. Had Walter Barron Joass 1806.
Jean Barron 1778 - married James Joass 1777
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I'm related to Walter Joass (1780-1862) and his second wife Ann McKay (1784-1854). Walter's parents are Alexander Joass and Helen Ross. I have my DNA done and would be interested in comparing...
There are several Alexander Joass's in Banffshire at the time making it difficult to discern which one is the correct one who fathered Walter. The Alexander Joass that I am related to was a farmer at Burnside of Cullen (not a longtime teacher like the other Alexander Joass).
I have my dna on ancestry ... can we conmpare?
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I can add to the Joass story at Bloodymire. I am related to an Alexander Craig approx 1706 (may be the witness to the Joass births??, and Katherine Joass b approx 1722. I have no further details about this couple except Alexander Craig headstone reads "sometime farmer in Bloodymie", (Gamrie Banff).
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Thanks. Nice to meet you.
The name Alexander Craig of Bloodymire comes up several times in birth records of Joass family of Burnside. Also an Alexander Joass from Bloodymire is a witness to the birth of Alexander Joass 1756 (schoolmaster of Boyndie). There is Alexander Joass the father , Alexander the son and then Alexander from Bloodymire. Maybe there is a connection between the Bloodymire Alexander and Katherine Joass? I'd be interested in any clues about Bloodymire Alexander Joass.
I see that Alexander Craig has a brother James and he also shows up as a witness to Joass births.
Also I see that Alexander Craig had sons: Alexander 1745 , John 1748 , Walter 1750 (interesting) , James 1753 and William 1756.
Attached: 1777 birth of James Joass -son of Alexander -farmer of Burnside and Helen Ross
Interestingly , above the birth of James is an Irvine one and the witness is Alexander Joass from Bauds. There are several in the area at the time for sure.
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There are 3 families within close proximity over the same times which I am sure are linked,but have yet to find link. A search through KS records would be my next step.
Bloodymires:
John Joass m Isobel Riddoch, children
Ann 1766,
Alexander 1771,
James,
!sobel 1775,
William 1777,
Walter1780.
Bauds.
Alexander Joass m Anne Lumsden, Children.
Katherine 1776
Ann 1778
Alexander 1780
Alexander 1781
Mary 1782
Bathia 1785
Helen 1788
James1792
Catherine 1797 ?
AND Burnside;
Alexander Joass m Beatrice Addison
Possibly the natural son to George Joass and Margaret Preist bp 7.10.1681
George and brother William the sons of James Jon
Anyone who can aid the untangling?
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Thank you Alan of Kalso, I did not know about Alexander Craig’s brother James. I will investigate. Katherine Joass is a mystery as I have not found her death yet. She may be a sister to Alexander Joass of Bloodymyre.
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Hello Douglas
Not much to add but I did get the Katherine Joass birth doc and it says that Alexander Joass of Bauds was a farmer. It says this Katherine Joass died in 1791 so cannot be same Katherine that PCRW mentions above marrying Alexander Craig.
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Has anyone come across a marriage for Alex Joass b1740 D 1814 and Ann Lumsden B 1744 D 1812 and buried in Alvah. Currently researching with 2 dna matches and have struggled to find a marriage, first child Katherine was baptised 1776.
Cindy
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Their wedding doc seems to be missing... but it does say wife on the baptism docs and on the grave it says 'Ann Lumsden his spouse'.
This stone is ereceted by Alexander Joass farmer in Bauds, in memory of John Lumsden, sometime farmer in Carling Craig, who departed this life, February 20th 1780, aged 66. Also his spouse, died March 20 1801, aged 79. Alexander Joss, farmer in Bauds 32 years, died July 20th 1811, aged 72. Ann Lumsden his spouse, died February 8th 1812 aged 68, and their son, James Joss, merchant, Boyndlie ... [last part not legible]
Alexander Joass of Bauds is likely this entry on SP:
JOASS ALEXANDER
WM. JOASS/
M
21/04/1735
146
10 / 64
Alvah
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5817add7e93790ec8befd923/alexander-joass-baptism-banffshire-alvah-1735-04-21?locale=en
William Joass of Funkiestoun is likely brother of Alexander Joass (also sometimes of Funkiestoun) who had the son Walter in 1728. This Alexander of Alvah is likely the father of Alexander of Burnside 1722-1802. That would mean his wife was Beatrice Addison (according to the Joass family grave in King Edward).
Alexander 1735 Bauds and Alexander 1722 Burnside are cousins I believe.
Here is a list of kids by Alexander Joass of Alvah (Funkiestoun , Stonyhill , Brydach):
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5817add5e93790ec8befd552/john-joass-baptism-banffshire-alvah-1724-03-04?locale=en
Missing from the list is Alexander 1722 who's baptism record is not findable. He could have been born anywhere from 1722-1735...
If the above is true then John Joass of Alvah born 4 Mar 1724 at Stonyhill is the same John Joass of Bloodymire that married Isobel Riddoch. I am DNA related to both Alexander of Burnside and John of Bloodymire...because they are brothers.
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5817add5e93790ec8befd552/john-joass-baptism-banffshire-alvah-1724-03-04?locale=en
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Hi Alan,
Thank you for that information. I also have Alex Joss married Rose McKenzie 1805 Cruden Aberdeen. children I have for them is James 1808 Alex 1810 George 1814 and maybe GardenJoass born 1819 father Alex occupation is Teacher on Baptisim record.
I can't confirm which Alex married Rose but I'm thinking he is the son of Alex and Ann Lumsden born 1781.I haven't found a death for Rose McKenzie
Cindy