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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Shropshire => Topic started by: OzJen on Tuesday 27 December 11 07:00 GMT (UK)
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Dear All,
I know that my g-g-g-g-gmother Jemima Bishton was base-born in Oct 1799 to "Mary Bishton of Limbots", which is near Stableford and Worfield.
I have also found the birth of a boy, John (also base-born) in Donington, in Oct 1801 to a Mary Bishton. I do not know if Jemima and John are related.
I have been unable, after many ++ hours of hunting, to find out any more about Mary and the kind of life she and Jemima would have had. I have also been unable to find out anything about Limbots beyond what I have listed here, and that information came via a RootsChatter.
I know Jemima married Benjamin Thomas of the Royal Navy (who was much older than her) in 1818 in Bristol, very possibly when she was pregnant with her first child, Clarissa. Somehow, along the way, she had acquired the surname 'Collins' - no marriage for Mary Biston to a Mr Collins seems to exist, but Jemima gives her father's name as Thomas Collings - solicitor - on her marriage certificate in 1856. (Another puzzle!) ;)
Is there any way I can find out more about Mary and Jemima (and possibly John) between 1800 and the 1841 Census? By 1841, Benjamin Thomas had been deceased for about 15 years, I estimate - I have narrowed his death down to the years between 1820 and 1827 (most likely 1826-27), and know nothing about his birth.
If anyone is able to offer any suggestions or help, I will be very grateful as I have totally run out of ideas! :-\
Regards,
OzJen
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Hi OzJen :)
Just a thought...have you viewed the actual parish register (or a direct copy) or just a transcription, of Jemima's baptism? I was wondering whether "Limbots" could be a mistranscription of the actual word.
One idea to try to discover more about Mary and her two children would be to see if any bastardy examinations or bonds, or other poor law records, exist for them. Shropshire Archives would have these I think.
Cheers
Prue
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Hi Prue,
who said
I was wondering whether "Limbots" could be a mistranscription of the actual word.
I don't think OzJen has a problem with 'Limbots' being the birth place of Jemima BISHTON.
I located that precise location for her in another thread last July.
I have a typed transcript of Worfield Church BDM's. Author unknown.
It lists Jemina, born 15 Oct 1799, Christened 27 Oct 1799, as the BASE dau of My BISHTON of Limbots.
Several entries for BISHTON have 'Limbots' as the address.
An old large scale map has 'Limbots Buildings' in the middle of a field.
It's South West across the road from Stableford, perhaps a mile North of Worfield.
Google Earth shows a building still there today.
Seasonal Greetings,
Gwynne
http://www.rafbridgnorth.org.uk (http://www.rafbridgnorth.org.uk)
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Hi Prue and Gwynne,
Thanks very much for your suggestions, Prue. I will follow them up. A cursory look at the Shropshire Archives site shows lots of listiings for bastardy bonds and examinations, so I may get lucky.
Gwynne, how can I find out more about the Limbots buildings? Do you know anything more about the place? Seems an unusual name (I'm sure that's why Prue thought it could have been a mistranscription) - I'm wondering if they could have been related to the workhouse or some sort of accommodation, perhaps for ladies in need of care, like Mary Bishton? I'm very interested to know more, but have discovered there is nothing available through Google beyond what you have already been able to tell me.
Thank you, both.
OzJen
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Hi OzJen,
I have Bishtons in my tree from the South of Shropshire Worfield and Astley Abbots etc. I think we could be connected in some way? I have a Mary Bishton born Tasley 1842 who was my 3 x Great Grandmother.
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Hi Aileen,
Thanks for your message. It certainly sounds as if it could be possible. From what I've discovered so far, I know the Bishtons were quite a large family. My Mary would have been born in the 1700s and was my 5g-grandmother. I'm not 100% sure when she was born, but there was a Mary Bishton b. Donington in 1769 and I'm wondering if she's the lady I'm after as I haven't found one yet who was born later, who fits.
Let's keep an eye on it and see if a connection comes up.
Cheers,
OzJen :)
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Hi
I'm from Yorkshire so make allowances,
Prue is Right as she usually is the name is Limbutts buildings and remnants are is still there.
Put 'Limbutts buildings Stableford' in Google Search
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html
Click on ;- Get Maps in top across menu
Next page Click on Gazetteer
Next page click on S and or scroll down to and click on Shropshire
Next page Click on S in top menu
Next page scroll down to Stableford
Next page select maps from small menu on the right and select 1981 map -click on Enlarge map in blue
then under the larger square click enhanced Zoom in red
Then go and make a cupa as its very slow to appear
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Looks like some sort of building with a compound enclosure or these are later farm building maybe pig/cow shed or maybe an old convent/almshouses. Its still there or summat is and someone local may know summat about them or maybe find out the farm address then write to the farmer. There is a long back of the building footpath right of way to it from a lane at Cranmere cottage and Cranmere village or hamlet or farm on old maps also a track to a main road the opposite way.
You have a interesting quest ahead in the new year!- Good Luck and Hunting :(
Copyright image removed
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Thank you so much for that infomation and the image, dobfarm - that's super!
I'm off to follow your instructions right now. Do you, or any other reader of this posting, have any idea where I can find out more about these Limbutts buildings and what they were used for? I found this link which shows a picture of the surrounding area - the buildings seem quite isolated (from the photo), which I wonder could be bit of an unusual a place for a single mother to be giving birth?
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2281529
I've become very curious about this, so any information that can add to my understanding of this time in Mary Bishton's life would be very welcome.
Cheers,
OzJen
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Wait to rest of Poms wacken (Wake) up.
;D 'Thar noohas' as we say up here in Yorkshire
Copyright image removed
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http://tfmsuperstore.co.uk/
Put pen to paper and get writing to this place in link their customers may know the history of Limbutts.
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Will do - just found the page on Google Earth and saw the store. It's very exciting to have found the building where my 4g-grandmother was born/lived, when it's on the other side of the world!
Thanks,
OzJen
PS - one of my 2g-grandfathers was a Yorkshireman - now I'm getting an idea of how he spoke. Love it! ;D
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http://www.discovershropshire.org.uk/html/search/verb/GetRecord/CCS:MSA6892
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http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/results.aspx?tab=2&Page=1&ContainAllWords=limbutts
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Sydney Funnel webspiders walking loose in ozzy -A'l sti (Stay) reight (Right) er'h (Here) thanks
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Sidney Funnel webspiders walking loose in ozzy
Never seen one! The Sydney funnel-web spiders like to keep to themselves.
Happy New Year from over here in Oz - blue sky, sunshine, a lovely warm Sydney day. ;D
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Damp, muggy and wet here! :'( but warmest weather at Xmas for years. I remember finding where my great grands lived in Temple Balsall near Hampton in arden Warwickshire (about level with Stableford the other side of Birmingham at 3 oclock) and seeing the old building where they lived and farms etc also found my Gt Grans gravestone right in front of the medieval hall where the knights templers met. Really exciting stuff. I envy your quest on Limbutts. Please post your findings.
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Write to Cranmere Farm
Stableford
Postcode: WV15 5LP
UK
Don't forget SAE for an answer (May cost a bit in postage though? from oz.)
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Sidney Funnel webspiders walking loose in ozzy
Never seen one! The Sydney funnel-web spiders like to keep to themselves.
Happy New Year from over here in Oz - blue sky, sunshine, a lovely warm Sydney day. ;D
WOW! Just Google'd Cooee -Pure paradice- we got Muggy - :'( :'( :'(
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The Limbutts were a couple of cottages, well I think there were 2 and to get to them you had to go across a field. They were situated off Cranmere Bank. I imagine they simply weren't attractive to live in because they were not easy to get to.
Unfortunately not many of Worfield's Poor Law Records have survived. I hope you are lucky.
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Thanks for adding to the Limbutts picture for me, Jane. Every little bit helps! :)
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Hi Prue,
who said
I was wondering whether "Limbots" could be a mistranscription of the actual word.
I don't think OzJen has a problem with 'Limbots' being the birth place of Jemima BISHTON.
I located that precise location for her in another thread last July.
I have a typed transcript of Worfield Church BDM's. Author unknown.
It lists Jemina, born 15 Oct 1799, Christened 27 Oct 1799, as the BASE dau of My BISHTON of Limbots.
Several entries for BISHTON have 'Limbots' as the address.
An old large scale map has 'Limbots Buildings' in the middle of a field.
It's South West across the road from Stableford, perhaps a mile North of Worfield.
Google Earth shows a building still there today.
Seasonal Greetings,
Gwynne
http://www.rafbridgnorth.org.uk (http://www.rafbridgnorth.org.uk)
In the above it say there are several Bishton's entries living at Limbots in the register. I don't think they will all be single mum sibling baptisms, also the size of the Limbutts buildings given in the last post reply seems to say this was small holding/farm house, therefore nothing to do with poorlaw and its location in the middle of farmland away from the main community or roads.
Well done 'jane kirkland' -thats vital info
Dobs
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Hi,
The list of transcriptions of Christenings, Marriages and Burials, at Worfield Parish Church 1749 to
1812, for ALL family names, mentions the Limbots eight times.
In the three years between 1798 and 1800, four BISHTON women had a base (illegitimate) child there.
Then a RAWLINGS couple had a child there in 1803 then a RICHARDS family had three children there
between 1807 to 1812.
I've retyped all the BISHTON family Christenings below.
You can spend an interesting afternoon trying to put the people into family groups.
Note that I've tried to copy the original document - including the spelling errors. The place was
consistently called Limbots.
Jane - I know that you write a column for the Worfield Parish magazine. Could I suggest you ask your
readers for any historical information about the Limbots?
For the record, Worfield Workhouse was in Main Street, in the center of the village. I photographed it
in 2003 for another researcher.
BISHTON Christenings at Worfield Church. From typed transcripts 1749 to 1812.
Born. Chr. Name.
26 Oct 1752. 11 Nov 1752. My d of Rob of Acleton, Lab’r & Eliz.
- 6 Mar 1765. Sam s of Jn, of Accleton & Eliz.
- 22 Sept 1767. Jn s of Jn, of Accleton & Eliz.
- 22 Feb 1771. Ric s of Rob, & Eliz.
- 12 Apr 1772. Luke s of Tho, & Eliz.
- 12 July 1772. Wm s of Rob, of Stableford & Eliz.
- 27 July 1772. Jenny d of Jn, of Acleton & Eliz.
- 22 May 1774. Jn s of Tho, of Hilton & Eliz.
- 23 May 1774. Jas s of Rob, of Stableford & Eliz.
- 3 Feb 1775. Mary Thomason d of Jn, of Acleton & Eliz.
- 29 Sept 1775. Keturah d of My (base born)
- 25 Aug 1776. Myra d of Tho, & Eliz.
- 27 Dec 1776. Sar d of Rob & Eliz.
29 Oct 1778. 8 Nov 1778. Job s of Tho, of Hilton, labourer & Eliz.
17 May 1783. 18 June 1783. Eliz d of Tho & Eliz.
7 Sept 1784. 19 Sept 1784. Geo s of Rob, & Eliz.
14 Feb 1785. 6 Mar 1785. Valentine s of Jn & My. Pauper.
16 Mar 1786. 26 Mar 1786. An d of Tho & Eliz, of Hilton.
19 June 1786. 2 July 1786. Mgt d of Rob, & Eliz.
- 18 Apr 1787. Kitty d of Jn & My.
24 June 1787. 1 Jan 1788. Jn Theophilus s of Joseph & Han.
4 Sept 1788. 21 Sept 1788. Hen s of Tho & Eliz.
25 Nov 1789. 28 Dec 1789. Eliz d of Rob & Eliz (Pauper)
10 Oct 1790. 7 Nov 1790. Bessy d of Jn & My.
8 Dec 1790. 12 Dec 1790. Sar d of Tho & Eliz.
8 Mar 1790. 13 June 1790. Chas s of Sam & Sar.
2 Jan 1793. 13 Jan 1793. Geo s of Sam & Sar, of Acleton.
4 Dec 1793. 8 Feb 1794. Sar d of Jn & Sar, of Hitton (Pauper)
6 Apr 1794. 20 Apr 1794. Henry Turner, base son of Jane of Stableford, Pauper.
18 Apr 1795. 10 May 1795. Juliana d of Sam & Sar.
9 Oct 1796. 6 Nov 1796. Fanny d of Tho & Eliz, of Hilton.
26 Feb 1798. 18 Mar 1798. Harriet b – d of An, of Limbots.
24 June 1798. 8 July 1798. Charlotte d of Sam & Sar.
15 Apr 1799. 28 Apr 1799. Edw s of Jas & An.
11 May 1799. 26 May 1799. Ric s of Jn & Sus.
15 Oct 1799. 27 Oct 1799. Jemima base – dau of My (Limbots) Your g.g.g.g.gmother.
3 Aug 1800. 14 Sept 1800. Ric Allerton base – s of An, Limbots.
30 Aug 1800. 28 Sept 1800. Wm base – s of Sar, Limbots.
13 Jan 1801. 25 Jan 1801. Sus d of Sam & Sar, Acleton.
20 Feb 1801. 8 Mar 1801. Jas s of Jas & An, Standlow.
23 Nov 1802. 1 Jan 1803. Hen s of Jas & An, Standlow.
20 July 1803. 11 Sept 1803. My An d of Sam & Sar, W.
16 Oct 1804. 11 Nov 1804. Jn Hen s of Sam & Saw, W.
12 Oct 1804. 18 Nov 1804. Rob s of Jas & An, Stanlow.
25 Jan 1805. 10 Feb 1805. Jn s of Jn & Sus, Stableford.
7 Feb 1806. 23 Mar 1806. An d of Jas & An, Standlow.
26 Jan 1807. 22 Feb 1807. Jas s of Sam & Sar, W.
31 May 1807. 28 June 1807. Tho base – s of Mgt, Stableford.
21 Nov 1807. 1 Jan 1808. Eliz d of Jas & An, Standlow.
17 Apr 1808. 15 May 1808. Triphena d of Tho & An, Sonde.
21 May 1808. 26 June 1808. Jane d of Valentine & Phebe, Hallon Ford.
3 Aug 1808. 25 Sept 1808. Geo s of Jn & Sus, Stableford.
11 Jan 1809. 22 Jan 1809. Eliza Thomason, d of Sam & Sar, W.
11 Dec 1809. 24 Dec 1809. Harriett d of Tho & An, W.
10 Feb 1810. 6 May 1810. Sar d of Val’n & Phebe, W.
24 Aug 1811. 8 Sept 1811. My d of Elis.
15 Aug 1811. 8 Dec 1811. Jn s of Valentine & Phebe, Hallon’s Ford.
2 Dec 1811. 1 Jan 1812. And s of Ric & Menella.
22 May 1812. 28 June 1812. Eleanor d of Tho & An, Sond.
The only other mention of the Limbots;
17 Dec 1803. 15 Jan 1804. Martha d of Jn & Eliz RAWLINGS, Limbots.
17 July 1807. 9 Aug 1807. Tho s of Wm & Han RICHARDS, Limbots.
12 July 1809. 13 Aug 1809. My d of Wm & Han RICHARDS, Limbotts.
6 July - 15 Mar 1812. Joseph s of Wm & Han RICHARDS, Limbots.
Gwynne
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Thank you so much for sharing all this information, Gwynne, AND for taking the time to so carefully re-type it! I'm sure many other people chasing the BISHTONS will find this information very useful in the future, as well as me now.
It interests me that
The list of transcriptions of Christenings, Marriages and Burials, at Worfield Parish Church 1749 to 1812, for ALL family names, mentions the Limbots eight times.
In the three years between 1798 and 1800, four BISHTON women had a base (illegitimate) child there.
Then a RAWLINGS couple had a child there in 1803 then a RICHARDS family had three children there between 1807 to 1812.
I'm sure there is going to be an interesting story to this place, when we work it out!
I have written to the store over the road from the buildings and to Cranmere Farm and will share anything they send me on this thread to add to the information resource we are all creating.
If anyone else who reads this thread knows anything about the history of the Limbutts/Limbots building/s, even if it's small, please share it with us! :)
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Hi,
Resisting the temptation to drive there, a pleasant four hour round trip walk took me to the Limbutts Buildings yesterday with my camera.
Apart from the two photographs below, I've put eleven photographs on my own web site at;
http://www.rafbridgnorth.org.uk/familyhistory/variousfolder/limbutts/limbutts.html
Gwynne
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You are a star, Gwynne! That's sensational! It's so interesting and exciting to see them so clearly in the photos, especially from all the way over here in Oz . Rather amazing, actually, to think that this is where 4g-grandmother was born ...
Thank you VERY much. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's interested to see what they really look like up close.
Hmmm - if only those bricks could talk, I'll bet they'd have a few interesting stories to tell!
OzJen ;D
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Hi,
Rather amazing, actually, to think that this is where 4g-grandmother was born ...
Sorry, but having yesterday seen the 'Limbutts Buildings' I think it raises more questions than answers.
Although the buildings could obviously have changed considerable over 200 years, I'm not convinced they were ever a 'domestic' type of building.
I've also checked my copy of H.D.G. Foxall's 'A Gazetteer of Streets, Roads and Place names in Shropshire' This is a very respected 1967 publication that lists over 27,000 places in Shropshire.
He lists both;
Limbutts, The, Stableford, Worfield.
and
Limbutts Buildings, Stableford, Worfield.
So was there a house, now demolished, close to the buildings I photographed?
Gwynne
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Yes, I was thinking about that too. I've looked very closely at all the photos you put online (very interesting indeed) and I was wondering if the long building where the roof is falling in and the building that is now tumbled-down with only part of the rear (?) wall left (opposite the long one) could perhaps have been workers' accommodation with the entrances facing each other? The long building seems to have a series of doors and windows along it? Did you get to look inside the long building? Could it have been divided up into small lodgings, do you think? It seems to me that the tall 'barn' must have come later and been joined on to the long buildings.
Perhaps these could have belonged to a larger farmhouse that is no longer there? If there was another building, or a larger farmhouse, and it appears in a 1967 directory, someone in the local area must remember it. It will be interesting to see what, if any, information comes back from my letter enquiries.
The puzzle continues ...
OzJen
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Maybe they were 'domestic' buildings (the long ones at the back) ... ? :-\
Found this interesting link about labourers and cottagers in Shropshire at the time Jemima was born in 1799 - sounds like life was very basic and often extremely tough for agricultural labourers, depending on the attitude of the landlord ...
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22844#s8 . Go down to the sections about "landlords and tenants" and the section on "labourers and cottagers".
Gwynne, apparently the remains of Limbutts Cottage are still there on the other side of the valley in a clump of fruit trees, which are the remains of the orchard. See #1 on map excerpt attached. The buildings you photographed are at #2.
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Hi,
Yes, I agree that is one possible location. It's one of two new locations I found today whilst looking at the Tithe Map and Apportionment Book dated 1838, at Shropshire Archives, Shrewsbury.
The block of buildings we have been looking at previously was designated on the Tithe map as No.513. It was called 'Teril Meadow with buildings and yard adjoining'. Owned by Richard James TAYLOR and occupied by Anne GOUGH. (Both owned and occupied most of the surrounding land)
The plot you have mentioned today (your No.1) was designated No.511. It was referred to as 'Cottage and garden'. Owned and occupied by John JASPER.
To the West, South West of No.513 (at the other end of the field) was an area designated No.515. Referred to as 'House and Garden' Owned by John JASPER and occupied by William HOWELLS.
No.514 was 'Limbutts Meadow', No.521 was 'Limbutts Hill'. Both owned by Richard James TAYLOR and occupied by Anne GOUGH.
So, was it No.511 or No.515 ?
Although poor quality, a small part of the Tithe Map is shown.
Gwynne