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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: roma on Thursday 24 June 04 06:31 BST (UK)
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Family lore has it on my maternal side that our ancestors were Spanish. I have recently had a breakthrough tracing an Elizabeth SPAIN who was my gggggrandmother to Sandwich in Kent, marrying John PERKINS in 1797.
Does anyone have any history of SPAIN family in Kent, I believe several Spaniards settled in Sandwich after being stranded from the Armada and all adopted the name SPAIN.
Any information gratefully received.
Roma
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Hi Roma,
Try the surname navigator, it will give you many genealogy pages to browse if you type in the surname you are searching for http://www.rat.de/kuijsten/navigator/england/index.html
Good luck,
Sue
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Hi Sue
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Hi Sue
I don't know what happened in the previous message it just went before I had even started.
Thanks for the information on the wb site. I will give it a try.
Thank you gain
roma
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Family lore has it on my maternal side that our ancestors were Spanish. I have recently had a breakthrough tracing an Elizabeth SPAIN who was my gggggrandmother to Sandwich in Kent, marrying John PERKINS in 1797.
Roma
Hi Roma
I've just found the above message via a Google search. I am a SPAIN living in Ramsgate (6 miles from Sandwich) and have an Elizabeth SPAIN in my tree who may be your gggggrandmother. She was born around 1778 in Folkestone (24 miles from Sandwich). I also have a later SPAIN of the same family living in Sandwich in 1861, and others in the same area. My tree is proved back to William SPAIN who was born in the early 1700's, but I still can't get back any further.
Can you help me or can I help you?
Regards,
Phil
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Hi,
I have a John Spain from Kent who married into my Abbot line in Hampstead in 1879.
In the 1881 census and the 1901 census he gives his place of birth as "NEAR DOVER" est dob 1851.
Robyn in Australia
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Hi Rob
Very complicated these Spains. I also have a John SPAIN from "near Dover" but he was born 1804 at Bushy Ruff, a small hamlet just outside Dover (now known as Temple Ewell). Do you have any more details as I have heard today that another branch of the local SPAIN's (currently I'm unable to link to them) moved to Australia sometime after WWII.
I am particularly interested in the London connection as I have a Henry Charles SPAIN born c.1828. Sometimes he was born in London, sometimes he was born in Kent depending on which document you read! We cannot find his birth locally (Ramsgate, Kent).
Can you help? My tree can be viewed at www.philspain.f2s.com.
Regards,
Phil SPAIN
b. Ramsgate 1949
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Phil,
I wish I could be of greater assistance, I know that my mother's family were in contact with the Spains in the 1950-1960 period. They wer in Australia then, which ties in with your inforamtion that a branch came here.
My mother who is 81 remebers them visiting and thnks that one was NElly Spin, she rememebrs the naem as it was "Nelly" was the same name as her aunt who had been Ellen MAry Abbott before marrying and moving to the USA,
Relatives in USA have a birthday book with Spain birthdays in it. I will contact them and see what they have. This book belonged to Ellen Mary Patterson nee Abbott.
So far I have John Spain b c1851 near Dover marrying 1879 Ellen Mary Abbott b Hampstead 1853.
Children: Ellen S Spain b 1881 and George Spain b 1883,
(source censuses) (could be more)
If it was the daughter Ellen she would have been 70+ when she visited my grandparents.
Ellen Mary had a much younger sister Jessie born c18641 and I found a 1916 marriage between a Jessie C Abbot tand a William A Spain.
Would dearly love to know if there is a double connection there.
Will have a look later at Spin families in the indexes I can access her in Australia and get back to you if I find anything.
regards
Robyn
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Phil,
I'm still sleuthing.
Sent you a PM with some early Victorian record details. Then looked for later arrivals:
at http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx I am not sure of the process but I think these records can be ordered.
I found only two records for persons by the name of Spain arriving in Australia from 1945.
Frederick G. Spain and Daisy Ethel Spain on the Austurias in March 1947.
Presumably husband and wife as they have the same reference numbers. They disembarked in Sydney, and departed from Southampton
In the NSW records I found a death for a Frederick George Spain in 1968 parents Stephen Spain and Mary and for Ethel Spain in 1961.
The certificates would give date of marriage, place of birth names and ages of children etc.
These are searchable at http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm
and can be ordered on line.
regards
Robyn
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roma,i saw your thread whilst searching for other possible immigrant ancesters and wonder if there is a link.i have a jane elizabeth spain who married john holton pain in december q1845 thanet kent.i also have perkins in this part of my tree,gards,nel.
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I've just started on my SPAIN line, & this thread comes up first on Google :)
I've got as far back as Thomas Spain, born abt 1791 in Canterbury, Kent. He married Mary Ann (IGI says Mary Ann Spain) 1821 in Walmer. All the children were born in Walmer.
As the Spains seem to be in roughly the same part of Kent, I suppose there's a chance we are all related somewhere along the line.
Betty
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Hi all. Have a small spain problem that needs help.
I have a Thomas SPAIN who married a 'Maria' and had Susannah SPAIN. Unfortiunately I have been digging about and have now 'clouded the ground' with Maria being either Maria Ann WARREN or Maria SILVER (or both depending if she was twice married!).
Now, Thomas SPAIN (b. c1778, d. 1864, Kent) married Maria (b c1797, Kent). They had Susannah and other issue but Susannah was born 20 Mar 1838, in Newington, Kent, (d. 1868, Bridge, Kent). She married Edward Francis FORDRED in 1st Qtr, 1858 in Elham, Kent. Susannah was my wife's maternal GGGrandmother. Lot's of SPAIN's in Kent so need a litle help in identifying my one. I guess I could seek a Marriage Certificate and wouldn't need any help! However, any help or family contacts much appreciated.
Gordon
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hello,i was wondering if anyone researching spains who went to australia might be intrested in this info.my gggg grandmothers sister sarah amelia spain married george penn in thanet 10/10/1847,the emigrated to australia aboard the sophia,departing plymouth 27/04/1850 to freemantle WA.george fell off a bridge into the swan river whilst returning home from the pub in 1853,and sarah re-married convict john oldfield on 03/01/1854 in middle swan.john was a coal miner/hallier from bedminster who was convicted of stealing sheep in 1851 and was sentenced to seven years transportation.he was first on the stirling castle convict hulk,then sailed from portland roads on the sv marion on 02/11/1851,arrived freemantle on 30/01/1852.george and sarah amelia had children,one daughter elizabeth married robert carter,also the child of a convict from norfolk,they had 8 sons,2 daughters,77 grandchildren,139 great-grandchildren and 8 gg grandchildren.the families eventually became involved in a range of jobs including lead-mining,pubs and farmsteads.i am now in touch with a relative in australia and have quite a bit more info if anyones intrested,all the best,nel.
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Nel
Hi from Taupo, New Zealand. Sorry that I can't find any link but my SPAIN's are only through Susannah. Would like to be able to conect with your wonderful patchwork of Australian history but alas I cannot!
Gordon
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Hi Gordon
I have just spotted your post. Thomas Spain married Maria Silver in Northbourne 8 Oct 1829. I am researching William Spain born 1830 your Susannah's brother.
Thomas was the son of John Spain b1753 and Anne Finnis b1758
I have a bit more info on the Spains if you are interested
Regards
Chris
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Hi Gordon
I have just spotted your post. Thomas Spain married Maria Silver in Northbourne 8 Oct 1829. I am researching William Spain born 1830 your Susannah's brother.
Thomas was the son of John Spain b1753 and Anne Finnis b1758
I have a bit more info on the Spains if you are interested
Regards
Chris
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Chris. Yes Interested in your offer of more SPAIN info. Suzanne (my wife of 43 years!) and I visited the Kent region last year on a trip to UK and found a few threads. Very interested in her Susannah's brother's and siblings meanderings about the tree, e.g. William. We have just returned fro 5 weks in India on Holiday so need to crank up the genealogy files a bit to beome a bit more active.
regards
Gordon
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Chris. Sorry it might be easier on email - (*).
Gordon
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Hi all. If it's of any interest
THE SPAIN FAMILY
The Spain family, as far as we know, lived in Kent England and were farm labourers.
The earliest documents show their signatures as crosses so it is fair to say that they were not royalty.
The earliest names we have at this time are EDMOND Spain who was married to MARY ANN (nee GOODCHILD).
Their son CHARLES EDWARD Spain was born in Great Mongeham in the county of Kent on the 23 November 1857.
Charles (20) was an able seaman and was much traveled before he married FANNY MAY ELISABETH HAMMOND (18) at the parish church, Whitfield Kent on the 26th February 1877. Both Fanny and Charles signed their names with a cross on their marriage certificate.
They had a small holding in Kent and grew hops and tobacco, their first son, THOMAS GEORGE was born at Westmarsh Ash in the County of Kent on the 19th June 1878.
Charles, Fanny and their five month old son Thomas George, travelled to New Zealand aboard the ship Stad Haarlem and in April the 25th 1879 disembarked at Lyttelton. The family then moved to Waimate were the family increased.
It was in the years of the “Industrial Revolution” steam machinery was starting to be introduced in the farming scene and as whole districts became more mechanically reliant, farm workers were no longer needed. Horses and workers were both being made redundant in the face of steam driven implements. Famine and poverty among the subsistence farmers and their townsfolk was becoming more apparent and small holdings were being incorporated into larger amalgamations, in some cases just by way of debt relief. This is the catalyst that eventually invoked the immigration of large numbers of country folk from all over the British Iles to both Australia and New Zealand and the new colonies of the Southern oceans. The trades and the skills these immigrants bought with them, and they were many, was the foundation on which these new young countries were to be developed.
According to the “The Press, 17 April 1879 p.2” and the diary of one Mr Alf Simmonds
“ The immigrants comprise three hundred hop agriculturalists. These are represented by Mr Alf Simmonds the secretary of the Labour Union, who is a passenger by the vessel. Mr Simmonds has brought with him a quantity of hop plants, and before returning to England will give his attention to acquiring information respecting the adaptability of this country for the hop raising industry.”
FANNY MARY (Aunty JEAN) born Waimate in 1880 (married FOOT and had at least one son named Herbie. (Herbie Foot) Died in Christchurch.
ANNIE SARAH born Waimate 1882. Married Archie White who had an orchard in Tasman. The Whites adopted a daughter named Lorna who later lived in Tauranga.
ROSE LAVINIA Born Waimate in 1884 Married Hornblow, the Mayor of Dargaville.
MAY Born Timaru in 1890.
ETHAL LUCAS was adopted 1892 Lived in Dunback
AMY GERTUDE Born Timaru 1892 . Married Dan McCurdie and lived in Lower Hutt after moving from Dunedin. They had a son named Charlie who later drove railway busses.
DOROTHY Married a baker in Dunedin had two daughters Freda and Laurel.
CHARLES EDMUND (Spain)Born at Timaru in 1895. Later married a Hilda Mary Watkins.
JESSIE HAMMOND Born at Timaru on the 1st April 1897 Later married a Arther Cyril Bond at Dunedin an the 1st March 1920, had a daughter Joyce and a son Arther.
ALFRED RAYMON (Spain) Born at Timaru in 1901 and died in 1936.
The Spain Family moved to Dunedin about this time.
Thomas George was the oldest child of this family and was also the only child not born in New Zealand. Thomas worked on farms around Timaru and the North East Valley. At one time had an employer named Leckie.
Thomas married CHRISTINA SNEDDON at the registry office in Dunedin on the 27th March 1900.
Christina was born at Saddle Hill (Mosgiel) on the 1st of January 1880.
Thomas was working at the saddle hill coal mine owned by his father in law, JAMES SNEDDON when there was a collapse and his back was broken. He was paralysed for a time and had to learn to walk again.
At about the same time their oldest son, GEORGE was kicked by a horse which badly injured his head. It was a trying time for Thomas and Christina as she was also in child with her second son Norman.
all.
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Hi there Nel
I read your post about Sarah Spain/George Penn with great interest as I am currently researching John Oldfield (the second husband) :)
Wonderful details you have here. Would love to know more :) Please can you PM me or email me if you prefer :)
Cheers, Kathryn
hello,i was wondering if anyone researching spains who went to australia might be intrested in this info.my gggg grandmothers sister sarah amelia spain married george penn in Thanet 10/10/1847,the emigrated to australia aboard the sophia,departing plymouth 27/04/1850 to freemantle WA.george fell off a bridge into the swan river whilst returning home from the pub in 1853,and sarah re-married convict john oldfield on 03/01/1854 in middle swan.john was a coal miner/hallier from bedminster who was convicted of stealing sheep in 1851 and was sentenced to seven years transportation.he was first on the stirling castle convict hulk,then sailed from portland roads on the sv marion on 02/11/1851,arrived freemantle on 30/01/1852.george and sarah amelia had children,one daughter elizabeth married robert carter,also the child of a convict from norfolk,they had 8 sons,2 daughters,77 grandchildren,139 great-grandchildren and 8 gg grandchildren.the families eventually became involved in a range of jobs including lead-mining,pubs and farmsteads.i am now in touch with a relative in australia and have quite a bit more info if anyones intrested,all the best,nel.
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hello,i was wondering if anyone researching spains who went to australia might be intrested in this info.my gggg grandmothers sister sarah amelia spain married george penn in thanet 10/10/1847,the emigrated to australia aboard the sophia,departing plymouth 27/04/1850 to freemantle WA.george fell off a bridge into the swan river whilst returning home from the pub in 1853,and sarah re-married convict john oldfield on 03/01/1854 in middle swan.john was a coal miner/hallier from bedminster who was convicted of stealing sheep in 1851 and was sentenced to seven years transportation.he was first on the stirling castle convict hulk,then sailed from portland roads on the sv marion on 02/11/1851,arrived freemantle on 30/01/1852.george and sarah amelia had children,one daughter elizabeth married robert carter,also the child of a convict from norfolk,they had 8 sons,2 daughters,77 grandchildren,139 great-grandchildren and 8 gg grandchildren.the families eventually became involved in a range of jobs including lead-mining,pubs and farmsteads.i am now in touch with a relative in australia and have quite a bit more info if anyones intrested,all the best,nel.
Hi there i am descended from the second marriage of sarah amelia spain to john oldfield my great grandmother was her last child sarah amelia oldfield. My grandfather was born in 1906 and sarah died in 1924 I would love to have some info on the spaines.. from my research so far they seem to be mainly from st lawrence thanet is this a town or church?
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Looking for any information for a Thomas George Spain, and a Thomas D. Spain(born 1850) who was married to Mary McNight! I am trying to help my sister-in-law with our family tree...Thanks you all!!
Kathy
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There is a cluster of spains based in newington around the 1960's to current living spains of Shem Booth-Spain's (father Martin Spain/ mother Rebecca booth), Uncles - William Spain, Rowley Spain, Vincente Spain, Dale Spain, aunts - Sandra Spain, Heather Spain.
The spain linage was originally the French word for spain (?) as the original Spain family emigrated around 1550's from spain (catholic inquistion?), i was told that there was also word that the spanish spains moved because of romantic alterations with a kings bride and also joining the uk ships returning to uk. moving through france and settling in south east england hence taking the name to remember where their roots are.
Its interesting to note that farming hemp for the kings ships, toiling the land and expert land management was among the familys long history with great connections.