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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: torbaynz on Monday 30 January 12 01:52 GMT (UK)
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I have been trying to find out ANYTHING about this pub for sometime.
I have an old clay bottle with the name stamped into it,which read,s SHOGG,Pawnbrokers Arms,Marylebone St,Landport.
Can anyone tell me anything about it ? As stated above,I cannot even find any record of the pub
thanks for any help you may be able to give
William
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this may be helpfull from newspaper report 1851 bankruptcy of messers hogg - in the london court of bankruptcy on tuesday before mr commissioner gouldburn this was the dividend meeting under the bankruptcy of samuel hogg & henry james hogg of the lanport theatre, new inn, pawnbrokers arms, &c auctioneers and wine & spirit merchants
harrywrag
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Good evening,
This is the best site for Portsmouth pubs but I don't see your's on there; http://portsmouthpubs.org.uk/index.html
John915
I don't find that street either; http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=464500&y=101500&z=120&sv=landport&st=3&tl=Map+of+Landport,+City+of++Portsmouth+[City/Town/Village]&searchp=ids.srf&mapp=map.srf
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Marylebone Street is no longer there - it ran south from Greetham Street (which ran parallel to the railway line) - south of the goods yard. As far as I can make out, it was in the vicinity of where the law courts are now. The Mary Rose Street seems to be the only part of it left.
Nell
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Good evening,
I think Greetham st is in Somers Town not Landport. And there's no Mary Rose st in portsmouth, do you mean Alec Rose Lane which runs through to the theatre royal from the area south of greetham st.
John915
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Hi Marylebone Street, Portsea, keeps disappearing when doing an address search, but I did locate one where to it's left were Cutlers Row and Belgrave Street, I think there was also a Hyde Park Street or similar?!
Keyboard86
Edit this was the 1861 Census Cutlers Row has in brackets Pall Mall.
Or is Portsea another area entirely?
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this may be helpfull from newspaper report 1851 bankruptcy of messers hogg - in the london court of bankruptcy on tuesday before mr commissioner gouldburn this was the dividend meeting under the bankruptcy of samuel hogg & henry james hogg of the lanport theatre, new inn, pawnbrokers arms, &c auctioneers and wine & spirit merchants
harrywrag
I have a PM from harrywrag seem,s I am unable to PM back as I am a new member,so harrywrag,the answer is yes please.
I have always thought it was SHOGG on the bottle,but after reading the post from harrywrag above,there may well be a slight gap between the S and H.
Thanks everyone for info to date,look forward to any other adice that may follow.
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Marylebone Street is no longer there - it ran south from Greetham Street (which ran parallel to the railway line) - south of the goods yard. As far as I can make out, it was in the vicinity of where the law courts are now. The Mary Rose Street seems to be the only part of it left.
Nell
The site the bottle was found was on the south side of the railway line in an old well also lot,s of old house bones and other thing,s.
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Good evening,
This is the best site for Portsmouth pubs but I don't see your's on there; http://portsmouthpubs.org.uk/index.html
John915
I don't find that street either; http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=464500&y=101500&z=120&sv=landport&st=3&tl=Map+of+Landport,+City+of++Portsmouth+[City/Town/Village]&searchp=ids.srf&mapp=map.srf
Thank,s John,I have e-mailed the webmaster now at www.portsmouthpubs ,will report back if I hear from them.
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And there's no Mary Rose st in portsmouth,
Check out this postcode on Google maps or streetmap: PO1 2BL. And I believe streetview shows the street name on a wall. ;)
Greetham st is in Somers Town not Landport
I'd agree with you, but S Hogg of the Pawnbrokers Arms thought otherwise! I've checked the location on the old OS maps and Marylebone Street was between Belgrave Street and Sussex Street. All three ran in a southerly direction from Greetham Street.
Nell
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Good evening,
Well, we know it definatley existed at one time. We have the evidence, ergo, the bottle. I usually use streetmap uk and that shows none of the rds mentioned at all in portsmouth apart from greetham st. For those that don't know portsmouth, portsea is mainly naval base and a small area to the south of it. Below that is old portsmouth, to the east of them are Landport, Somers town below that and the southsea right across the bottom. East again is fratton and below that milton. There are other areas to the east and north of them but I won't list them all. I always believed landport and somers town were divided by the railway but it may be winston churchill way which is a little further south. I did have a contact in portsmouth with loads of old maps of the town but he died last year and his shop is now empty.
Portsmouth was hit quite hard by the "german demolition co" when they came over so a lot has changed since the war. Odd though that portsmouth pubs don't have it listed so it may have had a name change that they don't know of.
I will make some enquiries next time I deliver down there.
John915
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And there's no Mary Rose st in portsmouth,
Check out this postcode on Google maps or streetmap: PO1 2BL. And I believe streetview shows the street name on a wall. ;)
Greetham st is in Somers Town not Landport
I'd agree with you, but S Hogg of the Pawnbrokers Arms thought otherwise! I've checked the location on the old OS maps and Marylebone Street was between Belgrave Street and Sussex Street. All three ran in a southerly direction from Greetham Street.
Nell
Hi not being from the area, but Belgrave Street, Greetham Street, are shown as Portsea on the 1861 Census search I did above, did/was Landport part of Portsea at that time?
Keyboard86
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Back again,
Nell, apologies, I have it now. Makes a difference when you put THE in front of mary rose. The area between greetham st and W C way has been almost completely rebuilt so most if not all of the old rds in that area have gone. Now flats, and the law courts etc and I feel quite safe in saying that The Mary Rose st has only been called that since she was dragged out of the sea a few years ago.
John915
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Marylebone St was bombed in the war,there are no roads there now.The only building left that were near to it are St Lukes church & the railway station.The area was rebuilt in the 60s & 70s.
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Yes, the air raids make life difficult when trying to compare maps from the 19th century and now, and not just in Portsmouth. Bristol also springs to mind.
Add to the mix the love affair with big dual carriageways, pedestrian precincts and starting all over again just for the fun of it, it's a very confused picture.
Nell
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There is a good map of the area from 1910 to be found at:
http://contueor.com/baedeker/great_britain/portsmouth.htm
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And there's no Mary Rose st in portsmouth,
Check out this postcode on Google maps or streetmap: PO1 2BL. And I believe streetview shows the street name on a wall. ;)
Nell
Had a look at the street view of the area.Most interesting for me as I was on the building sites of some of this area,including what looks to be No2 Isambard Brunel Road ,ä building with white twin colm,s and traffic can be seen to drive under mid-way along.
About 11 well,s were found when foundations were dug for this building and the bottle was found in one of them nearest the station/railway line end.As I remember they ran in a line about the lengh of that building.
I am in New Zealand and so cannot visit the site,but street view amazing and help,s remeber thing,s.
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The building that you drive under in Isambard Brunel road is now bedsits for students,it was as offices but now only a small part is offices.It is almost where Marylebone st was off Greetham st.
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Hi All
Not sure whether this will help but maybe worth a mention ...........
1851 H0107 1659 538 24 - Civil Parish Portsea - Sub Reg Dist Landport - Address looks like Marialabon St or Malarabone St
Samuel Hogg Head unmar 49? St Ervan Suffolk - Licensed Victualler
Edward Hewartt Servant mar 36? Hants Portsea - House Servant
Sarah Hewett Servant mar 35? Hants Portsea - House Servant
Eliza daugh 5 Hants Portsea - Scholar
Cannot find the Pawnbrokers Arms though ???
Regards
Z :)
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this may be helpfull from newspaper report 1851 bankruptcy of messers hogg - in the london court of bankruptcy on tuesday before mr commissioner gouldburn this was the dividend meeting under the bankruptcy of samuel hogg & henry james hogg of the lanport theatre, new inn, pawnbrokers arms, &c auctioneers and wine & spirit merchants
harrywrag
Hi All
I found this Site. www.portsmouth.gov.uk/media/PENC_UPLOAD_2011.pdf
I searched the pdf file. ( ctrl F ) I typed the word Marylebone and it had threw up several mentions of Marylebone Street and it's location. It also had a pub called the New Inn as quoted above. Could the Pawnbrokers Arms have had a name change?
Kind Regards
Wendy
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Hi Again
Samuel Hogg turned up again! Regarding the quote in my last post.
"Landport Theatre"
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.pomeroy/local/theatres.pdf
scroll to bottom of page you will find the Theatre in Marylebone Street
Wendy
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hi just thinking has anyone access to old trade directories for landport around 1845-55 to see what buisne'ses were round marylebone street looks like hoggs were running a few licensed bars there have found also a sale notice for the pawnbrokers arms (bankruptcy) 1851 along with sale of the landport theatre wich is attached to the pawnbrokers arms have p.m copy to torbynz this would make the bottle dating back from 1850/1 lol just wondering if its empty the new inn tavern run by the hoggs was also there also hoggs salon mentioned 1845 the pawnbroker and landport theatre having frontage into marylebone street and green row
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Hi Again
Samuel Hogg turned up again! Regarding the quote in my last post.
"Landport Theatre"
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.pomeroy/local/theatres.pdf
scroll to bottom of page you will find the Theatre in Marylebone Street
Wendy
I know I should know the answer to this Wendy,BUT what do the number,s on the right mean ?
Amazing what all you guy,s are turning up about the Pawnbrokers Arm,s and so the bottle,great stuff.
Seem,s S.Hogg ands Co had a big (ish) empire,thought bearing that in mind that more record,s and even photo,s are not around ,but maybe you good people will still turn some up :)
Thanks to all
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As matter of interest the Portsmouth News has an aerial view of the area by Portsmouth & Southsea Station and the Guildhall taken in 1968 this should link or copy andpaste to the page and picture.The station is bottom left and Guildhall bottom right. The Pawnbrokers Arms would have been in this area.
http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/community/remember-when/city_centre_rises_from_ashes_1_3491580
There are also some other interesting old pictures on The News site as well.
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Hi Again
Samuel Hogg turned up again! Regarding the quote in my last post.
"Landport Theatre"
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.pomeroy/local/theatres.pdf
scroll to bottom of page you will find the Theatre in Marylebone Street
Wendy
I have just e-mailed Stephen Pomeroy telling him the following...
I have been reading (on line) The Theatrical Times,No11,Saturday August 22,1846 on page 87.The Portsmouth Theatre Royal,lessee Mr J H Hogg and was known before as The Grecian Saloon .
On the same page it list,s Mr J H Hogg as the lessee of the Theatre Royal Landport,so were there two Theatre Royal,s ?
Cheers
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It has been some years since I first posted about this bottle , wondering if anymore info has come to light since then ?
Thanks in advance for any help