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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (North Riding) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Maxima on Monday 30 January 12 16:40 GMT (UK)

Title: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: Maxima on Monday 30 January 12 16:40 GMT (UK)
Am searching for any birth/baptism record of Thomas Raine, born approx 1850 in Richmond, Yorkshire. I have his father's name from his marriage certificate as John Raine, coal miner, and from one of the census records his mother's name as Sarah.

He's proving fairly elusive.


Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: lizdb on Monday 30 January 12 16:46 GMT (UK)
Perhaps he wasnt christened.
Or perhaps he was, but not till he was older.
Or perhaps he was, but not in Richmond - sometimes eldest children were taken back to mother's home parish.

Which is the census you have him on? Ref? I havent spotted him as yet.
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: Maxima on Monday 30 January 12 16:53 GMT (UK)
Yes, you may be right. Have already purchased a birth certificate which wasn't him. His other siblings were born in either Newcastle or Durham. Haven't been able to find a marriage for his parents either, so was thinking they may not have been married prior to his birth.
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: lizdb on Monday 30 January 12 17:11 GMT (UK)
Where have you found him? I am struggling to get him in a census!
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: Maxima on Monday 30 January 12 17:55 GMT (UK)
He is living in Durham in the records I have him in -

In 1881 - at 5 Cowsley Row, Cornsay, Durham, with wife Jane Raine and children.  Class RG11 piece 4946 folio 11 page 18

In 1891 census, living at Front Street, Lanchester, Durham -  Class RG12, piece 4095, folio 11 page 15,
He is with his wife Jane and family. His mother who has re married - Sarah Wardle, and two half brothers are listed with him.

I think this is him in the 1861 census, where he's listed as T. Wardle (not Raine) -  Washington, Durham, Class RG9, piece 3763, folio 14 page 21



Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: lizdb on Monday 30 January 12 18:12 GMT (UK)
1871
RG10 4967 93 45

John Street, New Durham

Sarah Wardle 40 bn Keswick Cumberland
Ann 13  bn Ratcliffe Cumberland
Joseph 7  bn Felling Gateshead
Henry 6  bn Felling Gateshead
Anthony 3 bn New Durham

Sarah listed as wife, but no husband there.
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: dobfarm on Monday 30 January 12 18:28 GMT (UK)
Hi

What was his wife called  ??? on his marriage cert ? then look for both of them together with places of birth on census after marriage
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: Pels. on Monday 30 January 12 20:30 GMT (UK)



I could be mistaken, but there appears to have been some confusion on this one :

1871 census:
RG10/4927, Folio 49, Page 7

Durham, St Andrews Auckland
South Church

Thomas Raine, h. mar 21, Coal Miner, b. Northumberland, Morpeth
Jane, wife, 19, b. Yorkshire, Richmond

On the other returns it was Jane who was born in Northumberland.
Also, the 1881 census claims their son Edward was born in South Church.

Pels.
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: Maxima on Monday 30 January 12 20:54 GMT (UK)
I think on the 1871 census, there has been a mix up with their places of birth. I have his wife Jane White from Northumberland.

I have Thomas Raine in 1901 -  RG13 piece 4671 folio 95 page 53
His wife Jane isn't present, his place of birth as Richmond, Yorkshire

In 1911- at Hill Top, Ushaw, Lanchester, RG14 piece 29906
Thomas' place of birth Richmond, Yorkshire. His wife not present.

I have his mother down as Sarah Wardle. In the 1891 census where she is with him, she is Sarah Wardle, widowed, with two sons, who are Thomas' half siblings. And Lizdb has found her in the 1871 census.

His marriage certificate gives his father as John Raine. It's confusing me as I can't figure it out, whether his parents weren't married and his is registered under the mother's maiden name or it's something else.


Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: Pels. on Monday 30 January 12 21:09 GMT (UK)




Have you seen this one as a possible for Sarah Raine in 1851 :

HO107/2387, Folio 684, Page 9

I'd have thought that outside of the North Riding - the nearest registration district in this area to Richmond, would have been Teesdale.

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/teesdale.html

Pels.
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: Pels. on Monday 30 January 12 21:14 GMT (UK)




Have you seen this one as a possible for Sarah Raine in 1851 :

HO107/2387, Folio 684, Page 9

I'd have thought that outside of the North Riding - the nearest registration district in this area to Richmond, would have been Teesdale.

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/teesdale.html



In 1851 the above mentioned Sarah Raine was living with a family called Watson.

Marriage, Mar qtr 1851
Sarah Watson
John Raine
Teesdale, Vol 24, page 334

Again, all based on assumptions.

Pels.
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: Pels. on Monday 30 January 12 21:30 GMT (UK)





In 1841, the Watson family I mentioned from above were nearly all born out of county.
Just weighing up the odds because there is a Sarah listed as what you would imagine to be the right age, living with the family.

Pels.
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: Maxima on Monday 30 January 12 21:37 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that Pels, hadn't seen those ones before, and it's something to go on. It's annoying me as I've been trying for a while to put it all together.
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: Pels. on Monday 30 January 12 21:39 GMT (UK)




Wrong family !!  :( :(  

In 1861 John Raine and Sarah are living together in Mickleton. What a shame, it was all slotting together.

Pels.
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: dobfarm on Monday 30 January 12 23:49 GMT (UK)
Sarah Raine   Jan-Feb-Mar 1863 Teesdale Durham

No male in the list on Ancesrty or free bmd. maybe Spouce Wardle



To by pass Thomas bapt based on logic but far from proven to work on as strong possible


Based on several census birth places Richmond b 1850

Marriage certificate stating John was Thomas Raine's father

JOHN RAINE
 Birth: 
 Christening:  02 JAN 1825   Saint Agatha, Gilling By Richmond, Yorkshire, England



 
 
  Father:  WILLIAM RAINE  Family
  Mother:  JANE     
 
DEED RELATING TO GILLING LANE, RICHMOND 
Date 1862 
Level Collection 
DocumentRef Z.355 
Description Conveyance by J.J. Robinson to W.S. Raine and J.B. Langhorne
 (his trustees) of field in Gilling Lane, Richmond 4 June 1862.


Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: Maxima on Tuesday 31 January 12 10:00 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the information, is all welcome. I've been trying to go back through the 1841 census records to see if I can find any John Raines which may possibly be a match.
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: dobfarm on Tuesday 31 January 12 19:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Max


Thomas Raine seems adamant in the census he was born in Richmond YK's

Its seems IGI index Richmond PR's index only go up to 1847 (See below)


North Allerton Records office has Richmond PR's Transcriptions with index to 1855 (see below) ( being index won't taken them long to search it)

Richmond Library (YK's)have a Family History section and may have a copy of the transcription,so may do a free look up if you contact them (Careful you don't surf Kew Richmond London)

 From Hugh Wallis (Put surname only in the search box) website Richmond bapts to 1847 there seems to  be no John Raine sibling bapts so either John married after 1847 or moved there.


Richmond Near Leyburn

 C059191   1780-1847 
 C059192   1636-1779

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyYorkshire_(Q-S).htm#PageTitle





B 1813-1855; Typed transcript, with index; North Yorkshire County Record Office
   
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/CBW/NRY/Richmond.html

Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: Maxima on Tuesday 31 January 12 21:34 GMT (UK)
That's great, thanks for taking the time to put all that info on, will have to go through the links and have a look. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: dobfarm on Tuesday 31 January 12 22:30 GMT (UK)
If you get nowhere? Its will be a while too March or better weather of spring! I'll check the BT's in Leeds or York Bothwick at the York Uni on a trip there as I have other lookups to do for someone.

Dobby
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: Maxima on Wednesday 01 February 12 14:56 GMT (UK)
That's much appreciated. I shall continue to see if I can find anything in the meantime.

Ann
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: dobfarm on Wednesday 01 February 12 16:52 GMT (UK)
If nothing comes of the Richmond parish search which looks likely as no John Raine siblings (Other children bapts ) pre 1847

Not unusual to round off the age on census to the nearest ten years by informant to the census recorder

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/NRY/Laithkirk/Laithkirk90.html

LaithKirk Chapelry is in Wapentake of Gilling West (Gilling is Richmond down Gilling Lane)
 Rural Deanery of Richmond North - Archdeaconry of Richmond - Diocese of Ripon.

Pay to view Gens reunited



http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/search.page/results/parishbaptism/raine/thomas?yearofbirth=1850&yearofbirthrange=2


6 matches for Thomas Raine in the Baptism records

Raine  Thomas  1848  Laithkirk  Yorkshire  View 
Raine  Thomas  1852  Laithkirk  Yorkshire  View 


JOHN RAINE
Birth: 
Christening:  02 JAN 1825   Saint Agatha, Gilling By Richmond, Yorkshire, England




 
  Father:  WILLIAM RAINE  Family
  Mother:  JANE     

2 nd marriage Sarah Raine   Jan-Feb-Mar 1863 Teesdale Durham
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: dobfarm on Tuesday 14 February 12 20:31 GMT (UK)
Hi

Sorry to say! :-\

I have checked Richmond church Bishops Transcript register Jan 1847 to Dec 1853 baptisms in the original register book at Leeds sheepscar WYAS and there is No Thomas Raine baptism with a fathers name of John or with any other fathers name.

 :(
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: Maxima on Tuesday 14 February 12 21:24 GMT (UK)
Oh no, I was holding out for some luck, I had checked a couple of the baptisms off Genes Reunited but to no avail. So it's back to the drawing board with him. Thank you very much for taking the time and searching the registers for me, it's been great of you to help.

Ann
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: dobfarm on Wednesday 15 February 12 03:28 GMT (UK)
Hi

There are a few  could be explanations.

1) Thomas Raine was not baptised or registered with GRO register

2) The parents baptised all the sibling at once years later

3) Thomas was illegitimate and was baptised in his mother surname also register with the GRO in his mothers name

Thomas called himself Raine after his fathers surname

So it could be entered like

Example only

'Thomas son of  Wilma Flintstone Illegitimate (John Raine) of Bedrock town'  

 This one would explain why you can't find marriage also no other siblings of John Raine

Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: dobfarm on Wednesday 15 February 12 03:44 GMT (UK)
Oh no, I was holding out for some luck, I had checked a couple of the baptisms off Genes Reunited but to no avail. So it's back to the drawing board with him. Thank you very much for taking the time and searching the registers for me, it's been great of you to help.

Ann

Least you now know!

 :-\
Title: Re: Baptism, Richmond 1850
Post by: Maxima on Wednesday 15 February 12 10:16 GMT (UK)
Yes, I was beginning to think his parents may not have married, but it could be any one of the other explanations too couldn't it. I was hoping his birth was just hiding from me, but it's never that easy is it. Ah well, I shall change tack for now and see if I can find out anymore about his mother and concentrate on finding her maiden name if possible.

Thanks again  :)