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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: wrjones on Monday 13 February 12 09:53 GMT (UK)
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I'm looking for any available records of Welsh emigrants to Patagonia c 1890.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hi WR
A list here:
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Welsh_Emigrants_to_Patagonia_1890-1914
Not sure about this but it might be of interest - I started reading it in Spanish!
http://www.glaniad.com/index.php?lang=en
Also
http://www.theshipslist.com/pictures/welsh1.htm and http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/passengerlists/numidian21902.htm
gnu
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Thanks gnu,I'm looking in particular for any mention of a Hugh Davi(e)s possibly born in the Corwen area in 1884 who it is said emigrated prior to 1890.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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A friend of mine went to Patagonia on a cruise ship about 6yrs ago and was astounded that people spoke Welsh to this day.
What a wonderful heritage.
Tinam :)
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Thanks gnu,I'm looking in particular for any mention of a Hugh Davi(e)s possibly born in the Corwen area in 1884 who it is said emigrated prior to 1890.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
Do you know anything more about him - parents, siblings, etc. ? How did you find out about him?
gnu
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North Wales BMD have these
1884
Corwen - Hugh Davies
1885
Corwen - Hugh William Davies
1886
Llangollen - Hugh Morris Davies
gnu
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Someone who has a relative married into my Gabriel family contacted me on GR this morning.I'm waiting for further details from the contact.
I'm looking at the birth you gave in 1884.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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The contact's Grandfather was a Hugo Campo Davis born in Chile in 1895 returning to the UK in 1918.It doesn't add up with the 1884 birth!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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So maybe not one to add to your 10,000 then :-\
Where does Corwen come into it?
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The contact has got back to me again stating he may have been born c 1853 in the Corwen area.he was apparently of some literary reknown,the Huw "Forwr" mentioned as a non de plume in the Wrexham Advertizer in 1878 could well be him.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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1884, 1895, 1853 - seems a bit vague to me.
So did he marry into your Gabriel family ???
Forwr/morwr - sailor, I think
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The contact on GR has a relative who married into the Gabriel family.I just said I'd try and see what I could find.The Hugh Davies,the contact is adamant there is no E in the Davies,could have course have been born anywhere in the Corwen area in c 1853.The contact mentions somewhere called Moel Aden,I've never heard of it though!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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It's on the map:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k7s/
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Thanks,I was looking at a family who had the Druid just south of there,in their address earlier!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hi
There was a Hugh Davies horn in Bangor who emugrated between 1881 and 1883 and was the anglican chaplian of Llanddewi Church, but he was born in Corwen area and lived in Dwygyfylchi in 1871. In Patagonia he was known as Huw Ddu.
There was also a Hugh Davies (apparently known as Hugo'r Andes), acording to the NLW manuscript colllection for Patagonia.
Also a Hugh Davies 1853-1938, who was musical and wrote songs and music and had a nephew R.E Jones in Corwen.
I'll check the list of names that went out on the Vesta in 1881
Sam
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Many thanks for this Sam.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hi
Moel Aden a dwelling in DOLABERALWEN on the 1891 Corwen census- Llawr Bettws and part of Corewn Dist (RG12/4636)
and there are a couple of Davies's listed:
2 Moel Aden, schedule 38 (Edward aged 80 widow living with son-in-law William D. Meredith aged 27 and his family)
1 Moel Aden Thomas Davies 67, living with his son-in-law Evan Jones aged 25 and his family.
I've checked the entire list of passengers that sailed arrived in Buenos Aires on board the Vesta on 17 Jul 1886 and there was a Hugh Davies but aged 24 and an Evan Davies aged 20 and Geo Davies aged 20 all listed together.
Unfortunately the list only stated what country they came from and on the passenger list everybody from Wales was listed as having been from England!
I've done a search http://www.cemla.com/busqueda.php# (Centro de Estudios Latinoamericanos) which has passenger lists for all those arriving at Buenos Aires from 1882. Obviously names would not necessarily be spelled properly and the list is transcribed by Argentinians not familiar with Welsh names etc;
Anyway, I checked for Hugh Davis and Hugh Davies between 1882 and 1911 and the only one that came up was the Hugh Davies who sailed on the Vesta.
Do you have any other relevant info about him ?
Sam
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Thanks Sam,yes it is the Hugh Davies you mention,I've since found he was born in Moel Aden.
Regards
William Russell Jones
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G'day William
I have a Hugh Davies in my tree who disappeared after 1871. He was born in Corwen to Thomas and Ruth in 1854. I'm wondering if it's the same person as Hugo Davies married in Chile in 1893. The names of the mother and father are the same but it doesn't give his age.
Regards
Keith Davies
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Well Keith,it may well be that we are talking about the same Hugh.Especially in the light of the posts of Sam Swift!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hugh's father Thomas was my great great grandfather. He disappeared and so did his uncle Stephan somewhere between 1851 and 1861.
K
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I have information about Hugh Davies who lived in Chile since 1889. He emigrated from Chubut in 1889 and settled in Nueva Imperial, south of Chile. Married in 1893 to Elena Jones (widow Watkins) who is my great-great grandmother.
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I have information about Hugh Davies who lived in Chile since 1889. He emigrated from Chubut in 1889 and settled in Nueva Imperial, south of Chile. Married in 1893 to Elena Jones (widow Watkins) who is my great-great grandmother.
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Watkins, Davis family – English (Welsh) Colony, Nueva Imperial, Chile. In the late 1880’s, due to the shortage of good land in Chubut, a number of Welsh settlers sailed round to Chile and were allocated land at Nueva Imperial. This was known as the English Colony! In 1889 Watkin William Watkins (from Chubut plot 350) died in a farming accident and Widow Watkins of plot 4 (Ellen Jones, my grandmother) married Hugh Davis of plot 2 in 1893. My father Hugh Campo Davis (Jones) was born 1895. The family – Hugh Davis & Ellen (Jones/Watkins/Davis) – children, Robert & Griffith Watkins + Andes, Elena, Hugh, William, Thomas, Emma Davis, sold the farm (1910?) and moved North to Sewell near Rancagua to work at the new copper mines. Hugh Campo Davis answered the call for soldiers to join the British army and joined the 1st King Edwards Horse Regiment in 1918, he remained in the UK and died in Chester UK in 1980. Note - much confusion arises with the Spanish method of surnames, the last name being the maiden name of the mother, the surname being the penultimate name!
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James,
Welcome to RootsChat, and may I say what a wonderfully helpful first post you've made too. :)
Brilliant.
Trystan
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I've checked the entire list of passengers that sailed arrived in Buenos Aires on board the Vesta on 17 Jul 1886 and there was a Hugh Davies but aged 24 and an Evan Davies aged 20 and Geo Davies aged 20 all listed together.
Unfortunately the list only stated what country they came from and on the passenger list everybody from Wales was listed as having been from England!
Sam
Hi Sam, i’ve been looking for a VESTA passenger list for a few months. Is it online or do you have a printed copy?
Many thanks,
Deirdre
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Hi Dierdre
You can do a name search online at https://cemla.com/buscador/
I would just type in the surname in the "Apellido" box and copy the I am not a robot number visible at the bottom of the search box and click "Buscar".
The new website doesn' seem to like first names (Welsh anyway) in the"Nombre" box, so just leave this blank an it wil bring up all those listed under the surname searched.
They may of course have converted the surnme into an equivalent Spanish version or incorrectly transcribed a name.
I have a printed copy of all the names if you're stuck.
Best Wishes
Sam
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Fantastic cheers Sam, Deirdre
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I hope they did not have a hard time during the Falklands War. Not their fault!
Patagonian Welsh is the name given to the Welsh language as spoken in Y Wladfa, the Welsh settlement in Patagonia, Argentina, specifically in the province of Chubut. Teachers are sent to teach the language and to train local tutors in the Welsh language, and there is some prestige of knowing the language, even among those who are not of Welsh descent.The Welsh education and projects are mainly funded by the Welsh Government, British Council, Cardiff University and the Welsh–Argentine Association. In 2005 there were 62 Welsh classes in the area and Welsh was taught as a subject in two primary schools and two colleges in the region of Gaiman. There is also a bilingual Welsh–Spanish language school called Ysgol yr Hendre situated in Trelew and a college located in Esquel. As of 2016, there are three bilingual Welsh–Spanish schools in Patagonia.
Wikipedia
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Thanks barryd
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Hi Dierdre
You can do a name search online at https://cemla.com/buscador/
I would just type in the surname in the "Apellido" box and copy the I am not a robot number visible at the bottom of the search box and click "Buscar".
The new website doesn' seem to like first names (Welsh anyway) in the"Nombre" box, so just leave this blank an it wil bring up all those listed under the surname searched.
They may of course have converted the surnme into an equivalent Spanish version or incorrectly transcribed a name.
I have a printed copy of all the names if you're stuck.
Best Wishes
Sam
Hi Sam, this has been brilliant thanks, great to know the family definitely travelled on the Vesta.
Looking for one other family but they don't appear as Jones :) I've tried a number of alternatives, and even Jon* and J* but nothing comes up.
Would you be able to check your list for Humphrey P Jones (born 1853), wife Annie (1852), and children David (1873), Humphrey (1879) and Richard (1881). The family (without Richard, born later in 1881) were on the 1881 census in Newton in Makerfield in Lancashire, but in Patagonia by the birth of son Samuel in 1885.
Many thanks, Deirdre
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Hi Dierdre
No luck I'm afraid, definitely not on the Vesta and the surname with 24 variations of possible spellings has not picked them up either on the CEMLA site search. I would have said they in 1882 and early 1883 alone, such as the : Orion, Holbein, Maskylene (3 sailings at least just in 1882), Handel, Galileo (3 sailings at least in 1882) and the Archimedes. These exclude any ships that saailed from ports other than Liverpool which would have been the nearest to Newton in Makerfield.
Looking at Humphreys original occupation, have you considered whether they may have emigrated to the US and gone to Patagonia from there ?
I have however found some small mentions, possibly of Humphrey P Jones (and maybe his son) in "Y Dravod" and identified his Chacra (farm) on the September 1886 Chacra Map.
In 1886 at least, his name appears on teh Chacra map at Chacra number 105 (under 112 Thomas Pugh's chacra). According to a list in the National Library of Wales of the names of the Farms in "Y Wladfa" (the Welsh settlement), His f arm was called "Y Bont" (The Bridge).
A Humphrey Jones is mentioned on 12th Dec 1919 in the Colony's newspaper (Y Dravod) https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4024351/4024356/25/HUMPHREY%20JONES
The article basically says that he was one of a few of the children of the valley to have visited the far flung outpost of Deseado (where some Welsh settlers had moved to) on their journey further south. It says that one of these was Humphrey Jones, previously of Trelew. He had been a driver on the Trlewe toMadryn line (assume it is the railway) for many years, but had left that about two years ago. He was on his way as a car driver to Punta Arenas in Chile and they wished him a successful trip.
19th Nov 1915 a Humphrey Jones sailed into Porth Madryn (Puerto Madryn) on the Camarones from Buenos Aires. https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4022529/4022530/2/HUMPHREY%20JONES
Having trouble uploading Chacra map sorry. Will try again with that.
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Hopefully the Image showing Humphrey P Jones's Chacra (Farm) Y Bont (The Bridge).
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Hi Sam, thanks for all the info. I hadn’t thought about them going to the USA first given the relatively short gap between the births of sons Richard and Samuel, but i’ll have a look thanks.
Think the 1915 and 1919 Humphrey must be the son.
Thanks again Sam, Deirdre
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Hopefully the Image showing Humphrey P Jones's Chacra (Farm) Y Bont (The Bridge).
Thanks Sam, i have a farm reference in a marriage document too so will check that out as well.
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Hopefully the Image showing Humphrey P Jones's Chacra (Farm) Y Bont (The Bridge).
Thanks Sam, i have a farm reference in a marriage document too so will check that out as well.
Hi Sam, Humphrey’s son David was still of farm number 105 when he married Cecilia Morley in 1900, Cecilia (or Pryscillia as she was named on her marriage papers) was of number 130. The witnesses were from 4 other farms. Could i be cheeky and ask if you could let me have a copy of the farm map including 130 (if you have it of course). No rush 😀. Or would the maps be available online anywhere?
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Hi Deirdre
Here's the section with Chacras 130 N & S on (s & n could be south and north). Chachra 130 N is listed as Eduardo Parry (Edward Parry) and 130S is Guillermo Rhys (William Rhys or could also be Rees). There is no Edward Parry listed on the Name of Farms lists, but there are 2 William Rees's, at Tregethin and Ty Uchaf.
I did also find a ship's passenger list for the Galicia which you may have. It was leaving Liverpool for Valparaiso Chile, and Humphrey P Jones (Framer), Sillia, and David P Jones and children Morris & Stephen were sailing to Puerto Madryn on Jan 24 1907.
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Thanks Sam, so Cecilia wasn’t living at home when she married, interesting.
I have found a couple of passenger lists, including that one thanks, though some journeys appear to be missing. Hadn’t realised they travelled so much :o