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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: LHurrey on Saturday 18 February 12 11:41 GMT (UK)
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Hello everyone,
I'm seeking information on my 3x great grandmother, Harriet CLARKE. She was the third wife of my 3x great grandfather John Steadman HURREY. I'd like to find out when and where she was born.
What I know:
She married John on 2 Dec 1852 (I have the certificate). They were married by licence at St Peter's Melbourne church in Bourke County, Vic. She is listed as a spinster.
Witnesses are Elizabeth CHALLENGE and Joseph MOATS(?).
According to Trove, she died 11 Dec 1919 in her 93rd year. The Obit states that she was 'a resident of Victoria since 1849, and Burwood since 1862'.
Her husband, John HURREY, was born Spalding, Lincolnshire, England in 1808. He was quite popular, he'd previously been married to Caroline LEEDEN and Elizabeth GRINDELL. He had 4 and 7 children with them respectively. He arrived in Victoria in 1850 with Elizabeth and 5 of their surviving children. Elizabeth died less than a year later.
He had 6 children with Harriet.
Ellen Clara HURREY 1852 – 1941
Alfred Clarke HURREY 1855 – 1931
Frederick William HURREY 1858 – 1907
Gertrude HURREY 1862 – 1906
William Henry HURREY 1865 – 1944
Agnes HURREY 1869 – 1950
Alfred was my 2x great grandfather.
I'm not sure if the obit is suggesting a birth outside of Australia or just in a different state. I'm leaning towards the first option.
Any info greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
Lucy
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Hi Lucy - I'm assuming that there was no mention of her origin on the marriage certificate ???
One of the children's birth certificates may give you some information. It sounds to me, too, that she arrived from overseas but it'a possible that she came via another State.
Judith
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your possible clarke
Name: Harriet Clarke
Birth: abt 1822
Origin: Uddimore, Sussex, England
Arrival: 13 Oct 1841
New South Wales, Australia, Assisted Immigrant Passenger Lists, 1828-1896
Name: Harriet Clarke
Birth Year: abt 1822
Age: 19
Gender: Female
Arrival Date: 13 Oct 1841
Vessel Name: Lady Kennaway
Origin Location: Uddimore, Sussex, England
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your possible clarke
Name: Harriet Clarke
Birth: abt 1822
Origin: Uddimore, Sussex, England
Arrival: 13 Oct 1841
New South Wales, Australia, Assisted Immigrant Passenger Lists, 1828-1896
Name: Harriet Clarke
Birth Year: abt 1822
Age: 19
Gender: Female
Arrival Date: 13 Oct 1841
Vessel Name: Lady Kennaway
Origin Location: Uddimore, Sussex, England
The above Harriet CLARKE (nee HOCKMAN) was a married woman when she arrived with her husband George CLARKE on the Lady Kennaway, NSW 1841 :-\
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Hi, There is a Harriet Clarke aged 15, B1826 born Lincolnshire at a workhouse in "Upper Gate Louth" who unlike all the others that appear in the 1851 census, does not.
Of course she could have also died rather than emigrated. Unfortunately she may be very difficult to trace any further as she was either orphaned or left at the workhouse for any number of reasons. She is the youngest at that time in 1841. She would have been a candidate for assisted passage or bonded for work in Australia. ;)
Neil
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Thank you all for your posts.
Judith, unfortunately, no mention of origin. Very little info on these uncert images on Vic BDM. Glad I'm not the only one thinking she came from O/S. I'll have to consider buying the children's birth certs.
Thanks for trying Robert, would have been a nice find but she is listed as spinster at her marriage to John HURREY.
Neil, interesting find. Lincolnshire, same as John HURREY. I wonder if I can take it any further...
Thanks again!
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Hi Lucy, To take it further a search of all the marriages in and around that area of Lincolnshire would need to be done. That of course is another possibility.
But a closer look at all immigrants going on the possible year of 1849 may be easier. Unfortunatly not all are named! Thinking cap needed ::)
Neil ;)
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Hmm looks like she never married, as the only marriage of a Harriet Clarke in the period 1840-1850 in Lincolshire was in 1850 after Harriet's arrival in Australia, so she is still in the mix. ;D
Neil
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Neil, you beat me to it! This is hopeful! I'll start on the immigrants...
Thank you :)
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Hi
Before we al get carried away searching for every possible Harrieet Clarke you need one of those births certificates for her children, I would be inclined to get the last one as you inow some of the earlier certificates give very little info.
mum mum
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Death index entry is a bit odd. Either a mistake or "ex nuptial birth"
HURREY Harriet
Father Unknown
Mother Harriet CLARKE
Age 93
Death Place Burwood
Year 1919
Reg. Number 16216
Sue
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Hi Lucy, As mum mum says a birth cert or a full Transcription of the older children will or should have details of Harriets past, certainly if she knew where she was born.
There are 17 possibles born in ENGLAND, only one stood out as not marrying and not included in 1851 census, this was the Harriet in Lincolnshire. She may also have been born in Scotland and I dont have access to those records. Clarke can be a scots name. There are no deaths recorded 1840-50 in England from my source of Harriet Clarke's.
Get the cert first and then we all have something to go on. A transcription is around $18 and can be ordered not sure how much a cert from vic but they can be done with a CC and instantaneous reply.
Neil
Red flag noted
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I just downloaded Harriet's last child's birth certificate. Agnes HURREY was born 2 Dec 1868. Harriet is listed as Harriet HURREY formerly CLARKE, 40, Fishtoft, Lincolnshire. :)
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Everyone has been busy while I was off ordering!
Yes, I thought the Unknown father may suggest an unwed mother... it may fit with the workhouse.
The Lincolnshire birth listed on Agnes' BC fits with that too.
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Mmm Unfortunatly I cannot find a birth in England from sources and I also checked Overseas and Military births ???
Thats unusual too.
You say that in your original post that out of eleven children only 5 survived that came to Australia, or were some still in England?
Neil
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Neil, yes, some were left behind with family, others disappear from the records.
John Steadman HURREY married three times:
First - Caroline LEEDEN, 1834, they had Thomas, John, Caroline And Fanny. Caroline senior dies in 1839. I trace Thomas living with his grandparents in 1851 and then travelling to Victoria in 1852. John disappears after birth. Caroline junior died in at the age of 1. Fanny stays in the UK, was living with grandparents in 1851 and with an aunt in 1861.
Second - Elizabeth GRINDELL, married 1839 (barely 6 months after Caroline's death). Had seven children, 2 died very young in the UK, the remaining 5 travel to Vic with their parents in 1850.
Elizabeth died 1851. He waited over a year this time to marry Harriet in 1852. Not sure if she was lumped with the 5 children. They would have been 3, 6, 9, 10 and 12.
Then third - Harriet, they had six children who all lived through childhood.
John Steadman HURREY was an auctioneer, Trove has numerous records of auctions he ran plus a few mentions of financial ups and down.
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I forgot to say, the passenger list for the Duke of Portland which John sailed to Port Phillip (August 23rd 1850) lists a 'John HURRY, wife and 5 children'. It also lists a Miss H. Hurry. It has always puzzled me as to who this is. Now my totally irrational conspiracy theory is that this is Harriet CLARKE being brought out from Lincolnshire as a servant with the family.
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Approps your last post #16
No female H. HURREY married in Victoria or died in Victoria in the 50 years following the arival of the MISSS H HURREY you mention ;D
Sue
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Thanks Sue...maybe it's not a totally irrational theory.
Hypothetically, why would it have been beneficial for Harriet to change her name for immigration?
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mum mum is right - you need a certificate and the later births should have the most info.
There is a CLARKE family including a Harriet of the right age arriving Moreton Bay 1849, on the Fortitude. Parents: Thomas and Elizabeth and children ranging in age from 20 to 5. NSW Assisted Immigration, Fiche 2354
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=9
Unfortunately the names are so common I can't follow them through to see if they remained in Queensland (not a separate colony till 1859)
TROVE suggests that the Fortitude also called at Sydney however it was in quarantine in Moreton Bay so perhaps no-one disembarked in Sydney :-\
There seems to have been some problems with the immigrants on the Fortitude who seem to have emigrated under a scheme of John Dunmore Lang, Secretary of the Port Philip and Clarence River Colonisation Company. They were apparently under the impression that land would be granted to them very soon after arrival but this did not happen and there was some difficulty with payment of the bounties as prior approval had not been granted.
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My reading of the 1841 census has Harriet CLARKE in 'Upgate' Louth. I don't see her in a work-house but as a servant in the household of Mary Oxxx?, 60, a person of independent means, with two other ladies of independent means, Fanny Alington, 70, and Emilia? Robinson, 35 and two other servants. Despite Ancestry putting her birth as "Louth" all the image actually says is that she was born in Lincolnshre. Louth is some 30 miles from Fishtoft.
Just to add to the mix I see a marriage for a Harriet CLARKE in Boston, Lincs, March 1850. So, who knows ??
Perhaps a request on the Lincolnshire board.....................
I am liking the Hurrey nursemaid theory. Isn't John HURREY from Spalding, only 18 miles from Fishtoft?. I have two lots in my family where men married nursemaids after the death of a previous wife and left with small children.
Just out of interest where are wife Elizabeth and her baby in 1841? I see John with a servant in Spalding but no mention of wife and baby. (Was looking to see if there was a nursemaid listed with them)
Judith
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Hi Lucy, The Transcription I have of the 1841 census does not say "Workhouse" but it generally doesn't on Transcriptions anyway. It was simply my reading of it as there are no occupations listed for any of the inhabitants. The First person on the list not the head of the houshold as would normally be expected is Mary ORME born 1781, no occupation or relationship to head of house, next is Mary Howsham 1806 same as before.
Next is Harriet Clarke 1826 no relation to head of house occupation JUVENILE.
Next is Fanny Alington 1771 nothing noted for her, next Emilia Robinson 1806 no relation to head of house no occupation listed born Lincolnshire, next George Turgeon 20 born 1821 lincolnshire no relation to head of House no occupation listed born Lincolnshire.
Mr Hurrey seems as though he was a fare paying passenger when he arrived and would have forked out for all members of his family if H Hurrey was a member of his group I would normally assume it to be shown houskeeper or Nursemaid. He may have paid her fare he may have had nothing to do with her during the Voyage he may have been pulling a swifty and had her as a member of the family and received a discount, don't know?
But pretty safe to assume she was actually Harriet Clarke, which Harriet Clarke I dont know, just puting up possibles.
Neil
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Interesting stuff Judith, thanks :). I was struggling to read the script in the 1841 census.
Yes, John Hurrey is a Spalding man, I was happy to see that Fishtoft location on Agnes's birth cert.
Not sure about the Boston marriage, her marriage cert to John in 1852 states spinster but of course she could have just said that.
I can't find Elizabeth and child (Elizabeth jr) anywhere in 1841. I thought it a little odd that John was listed with just a servant but assumed Elizabeth was visiting family and I can't find her due to a transcription error (common with Hurrey).
I like the nursemaid theory too. Elizabeth's obit in Trove states that she dies "following her confinement" so they would have needed a nursemaid.
Lucy
Edit: I just found Elizabeth Grindell staying with her father Robert Grindell in the 1841 census (Northamptonshire). She has a Thomas Hurrey (6) and a Lisey Hurrey (1). There's a Catherine Hawthorn who I believe to be Robert's second wife with them too.
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Hi Neil,
Thanks for your contributions. I'm not very experienced in reading censuses so it's always good to get multiple opinions. I appreciate both you and Judith helping with this.
I'd really like to know what happened to lead to Harriet Clarke being called Miss H Hurry. I feel like he packed a spare wife just in case. He's not really endearing himself to me, old 3x great grandpa John. Doing the maths I guestimate that he was sleeping with Elizabeth within three months of Caroline's death and she was likely pregnant before the wedding. The dates suggest Caroline was also pregnant before the wedding. He's seeming like a bit of a cad.
Lucy
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Hi again,
From Judith's post
"Just to add to the mix I see a marriage for a Harriet CLARKE in Boston, Lincs, March 1850. So, who knows ??" Judith this was after they arrived in Australia and was the one I referred to in a earlier post.
Of the 17 possibles in 1841 Harriet born 1826 and in "THAT HOUSE" was the only one I could see that was not accounted for.
Mmm Old 3 X could have been a bit of a Bounder :o but seems to have looked after the Kids OK. ;D
Neil
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I realise it was after, Neil, but I wonder if it was the Harriet from Louth who was married in the Boston registration district which puts her out of the frame, and explains why she disappeared.
I believe there were very many such marriages between a father and the housekeeper/nursemaid.
There may well be an easy explanation for her being listed as Miss Hurrey - was it an assisted or unassisted passage? It may be that it was cheaper to add her as a family member. I know of people these days who take the nanny with them on a trip (no chance of passing her off as family with passports) and one of our (distant) relatives puts the nanny and kids in business or cattle class and they fly First - I digress :o.
Do we have a fiche/reel record for the immigration? I will be at the ANL some time this week and am happy to have a look.
Judith
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Judith, I don't have a fiche record. I found the passenger list in shipping intelligence on Trove. 3 Aug 1850. The Duke of Portland stops in Adelaide before Port Phillip. I haven't managed to find them on PROV.
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Neil, I am looking at the image of the 1841 census not a transcription.
The ladies I mention have "Ind" in the occupation column which, in my experience, means that they have independent means; the others are clearly marked F S or M S indicating hat they are female or male servants. 20year-old George (can't read his surname) definitely has the occupation of M S. Workhouse inmates often listed as 'inmate' or even 'pauper'. Looking at the image you can see where the enumerator has marked the separate households. The household before them is that of a clergyman with a young family and 8 servants :o ; the one after is a grocer, then two pubs. Workhouses usually have many more than 6 inmates.
Genuki makes this comment about Louth work-house
After the Poor Law reforms of 1834, the Louth Poor Law Union was formed on 12 April 1837 to serve the needs of 86 local parishes. The new Union Work House was erected in 1837 on Holme Lane on the north side of Louth, just east of Grimsby Road. It was designed to accommodate 350 inmates.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/Louth/louth_workhouse.html
However another site suggests that there may have been a parish workhouse in NorthGate. The houses listed are in Upgate near to Westgate. Upgate appears to be a main street in Louth. Nice pic here
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
and here - the flickerphoto site also has a pic of the Black Bull yard which was 3 properties away from the house in question
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkslouth/2314093073/in/set-72157601587777614
However is it the right Harriet ???
Judith
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My apologies i will leave you experts to it.
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Adding the ref on TROVE for the arrival
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/38450322
I note there was a Thos Clarke on board ::)
Judith
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Thank you both. That's the brilliance of this site, lots of different people with different skills looking at this with different eyes. I appreciate all angles and always learn something new.
You're right Neil, bit of a bounder but at least the kids get passed off to rellies (or forced on the new wife ;)) and don't seem to end up in workhouses at least :)
Potentially more info on Harriet's death cert (even though father listed as unknown)...may have to purchase it.
I hadn't noticed the Thos Clarke Judith, good spot.
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hooray - I think this looks promising -
1841 Census
Fishtoft, Licolnshire (no other details for address)
Will'm CLARKE, 40, ag lab,
Mary, 35
Hariet, 12
George 10
Isabella, 4
I don't know why this didn't show when I searched the indexes >:(
Judith
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Good catch Judith! :) The age is pretty good and the birth location. I guess at 92 there's few people around to remember parents names so the death reg could be wrong. And Harriet disappears from the family in the next two censuses.
I'll post on the Lincolnshire board tomorrow or the next day.
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I can't see baptisms for any of the 3 1841 CLARKE children on FamilySearch. There are 2 other CLARKE families in Fishtoft in 1841 but I could not see any other Harriets (of any spelling)
An aside - There is a monument to the Pilgrim Fathers’ in Fishtoft near the spot where they are said to have attempted to set sail for Holland.
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Thanks Judith. It's interesting that there are no christenings...I'll try to follow this family tonight and see where they lead me.
I've posted on the Lincolnshire board as suggested http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,582746.0.html
Fingers crossed!
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It's only that there are no baptisms listed on FamilySearch. This does not mean that there aren't any. I did see a couple of the other CLARKE family baptisms listed at Fishtoft. However it just may be that the actual records are lost or have not been collected by the Mormons, or your family were non-conformists, or the children may have been baptised somewhere else or much later than their birth. I know there are churches who do not give the Mormons access - Roman Catholic in particular.
I do wish we knew how to get hold of the shipping register.
Judith
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Of course. I forget these religious faction issues. Thanks for the reminder Judith :)
But hopeful now that the baptism found on the other thread is leading me down the right track.
Yes, that shipping register would be nice!
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I bit the bullet and bought the death cert for Harriet.
Name of parents: Harriet HURREY, formerly CLARKE and Unknown. :(
I was hoping for a mis-transcription but no. I guess Harriet was 93 and had just died from senile decay and heart failure. But that's just plain sloppy work, either from great great grandpa Alfred or the registrar.
It states that she was born in Lincolnshire and had been in Victoria 70 years.
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Yippee!
Many thanks to Cando who told me where to look.
From Passengers to Port Phillip from Southern England and Ireland 1849-51
Complied and Published by Ian A HUGHES
All on arrived Duke of Portland 1850
CLARKE Harriet (Miss)
CLARKE Thomas
HURRAY Charles (Master)
Elizabeth (Mrs)
Emily (Miss)
John
Robert (Master)
Louisa (Miss)
So it seems that she was definitely on the same ship. I believe she came as a nursemaid and was lumped in with the family on the Adelaide list but not on the Melbourne list.
The booklet gives no other details, just the names but at least adds Christian names. Whether Thomas CLARKE is anything to do with them who knows.
Judith
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Woohoo!!!! ;D
She was on the boat! Thank you so much cando and Judith!
I wonder about the Charles Hurr(a)y bit... Not sure how they got Charles from John Steadman? But the other bits match up so well.
HURRAY Charles (Master)
Elizabeth (Mrs) the wife, Elizabeth Grindell
Emily (Miss) the daughter, Emily Jane (the second one)
John not sure here, I thought there was one son, John Robert...
Robert (Master)
Louisa (Miss) the daughter, Louisa Ann
Perhaps they left Elizabeth jr. behind and she came out later? Or she's just not listed here...I have her marrying in Victoria in 1857...
The Trove article lists "John Hurry wife and five children, Miss H Hurry", so perhaps it's just an oversight.
So happy to confirm the nursemaid theory! Thank you all again for your wonderful help. ;D
Now I'd just like to confirm the birth date of Harriet's first child (Ellen Clara HURREY, can't find a birth record) as her death date suggests Harriet might have been pregnant while Elizabeth GRINDELL was still alive... Naughty John!
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I think John is the fourth one down - I think Master Charles and Master Robert are the children and that John has no designation so he is the head of the family.
I don't know where the author copied his information from - I was so excited, first to find the book and then to find THE names that I forgot to look at his attributions. There were no other HURRY/HUUREY/HARRY/ or anything else similar on the lists. Seems as though the lists were not all that accurate.
I believe that this Harriet has to be the one in Fishtoft in 1841, although we may never know. Neil Todd's excellent work and the info on the Lincs thread have eliminated almost all the others.
Judith
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Of course, thanks Judith. I was so excited I didn't notice Charles the son was missing. Of course, he's not missing, Master Charles is the son and John is the father. Silly me.
This is such great stuff! Thank you all.
I think you're right on Fishtoft Harriet, while we may never know, I am pretty happy to rest with that one. Thank you Neil for all your census work :)!
I'll post an update on the Linc thread in case anyone is only watching that one.
Thank you all again!