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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: snowyw on Thursday 01 March 12 17:43 GMT (UK)
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I have recently discovered that my 5x gt grandfather was a Daniel Gardner baptised in Seddlescombe Sussex in 1748. His father was James and on his Daniel's baptism, James was put as a traveller.
Daniel married Love Furnifer in Tenterden Kent in 1762. Love seems to me to be a romany name. The closest baptism for her that can be found on the IGI is Love Furnifull 1749 Nuneaton, daughter of Mary.
My question is: Does anyone know of any Gardner/Gardiner travellers in Sussex/Kent. I have searched and can find no evidence, but perhaps I am just looking in the wrong place.
Also, what do you think the chances are that Love Furnifer is actually Love Furnifull from Nuneaton?
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Hi,
Have you tried Romany Genes.
http://romanygenes.webeden.co.uk/
or this one
http://romanyconnections.wetpaint.com/page/Census+Information%3AGardener%3A
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Thank you Nettie
I have had a look, but cannot make connections with my Gardeners as they do not go back to the 1700's.
I think it will be almost impossible to 'tie' James down to a place of birth.
Daniel was born in Seddlescombe, married in Tenterden, had a couple of children there and then returned to Seddlescombe.
Daniel's son, my line - was born in Seddlescombe and settled in Ewhurst Sussex. I was unaware of any 'travellers' until I found Daniel's birth entry.
I cannot find any other Furnifers in Tenterden at the time of Daniel & Love's marriage - hence the reason why I don't think she comes from there.
This is such a mystery.
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Hi Snowy,
I have found people in the 1700's with the surname Furnifer in Cheshire and Staffordshire, unfortunately though there is no Love Furnifer amongst them. It might be worth asking for lookups on both the Cheshire and Staffordshire boards to see if anyone can find Love Furnifer.
However someone on GRU has a tree with a Love Furnifer born 1749 Nuneaton, Warwickshire, which I am presuming is you and then someone else has her as born 1743 but doesnt know where, also found a tree with a Love Furnival dob given as 1736 but not where she was born, parents Joseph Furnival and Mary Bound.
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hi.
just noticed that REDWORTH has an entry titled MY ROMANI ANCESTORS dated 18th feb and he say's he has a Garidner in his line he may have some info perhaps
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Thanks - I'll take a peek.
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Hi Snowy.
You might also want to talk to nightnurse51 as they have an interest in Gardner, Mitcham.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,533352.20.html
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hi.
just noticed that REDWORTH has an entry titled MY ROMANI ANCESTORS dated 18th feb and he say's he has a Garidner in his line he may have some info perhaps
No luck.
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Without doubt there were "travelling" GARDINERS or those with links to travelling families in Kent.
A Daniel GARDINER m Sarah with children Francis 1811 Ashford m Jemima DRAPER, Samson 1813 Headcorn m Sarah WRAIGHT is one family.
Casalguidi :)
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Thanks for that, but this is a real brick wall.
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Hi Snowy
My 3rd great grandmother was Mary Ann Warn/e who was born Seal (Deal?) Kent, 1827. Her husband was John Gardner/Gardiner (c1824) who I have as born in Gloucestershire but looking at my tree marriages were usually between families who travelled together and I would consider it highly likely that there were Gardners in Kent which is where a lot of my family seem to originate from or lived in Kent/Surrey/Sussex areas.
Lovely to meet another Gardner :)
Lemmey
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Hi Lemmey
I was so excited to find travellers in my tree - but they are such a problem to pin down! ;D ;D ;D
I would love to find out where Daniel's father James (c1720ish) came from (possibly Gloucestershire???) but more likely Kent. Also where Love came from.
You never know....we may be related!!
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Hi Lemmey
I was so excited to find travellers in my tree - but they are such a problem to pin down! ;D ;D ;D
They are! ;D
I would love to find out where Daniel's father James (c1720ish) came from (possibly Gloucestershire???) but more likely Kent. Also where Love came from.
I have been totally unable to get any further information on John Gardner (1824). Those with unusual names can be much easier to trace once you have actually found out what their name is! No Loves in my tree unfortuantely so can't be of any help there.
You never know....we may be related!!
Highly likely I should imagine even if it turns out to be very very distantly :) I have met a few distant relatives on here and it was down to help on this forum I first got my Romany family tree started ;D
Are you on Ancestry? If so message me and you can take a look at my Gardners to see if that is any help now or in future with your own research.
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I have recently discovered that my 5x gt grandfather was a Daniel Gardner baptised in Seddlescombe Sussex in 1748. His father was James and on his Daniel's baptism, James was put as a traveller.
Daniel married Love Furnifer in Tenterden Kent in 1762. Love seems to me to be a romany name. The closest baptism for her that can be found on the IGI is Love Furnifull 1749 Nuneaton, daughter of Mary.
My question is: Does anyone know of any Gardner/Gardiner travellers in Sussex/Kent. I have searched and can find no evidence, but perhaps I am just looking in the wrong place.
Also, what do you think the chances are that Love Furnifer is actually Love Furnifull from Nuneaton?
just a point I note you say Daniel Gardner was bapt 1748 married 1762?
This would only make him 14 when he married?
would that be abit young
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The marriage according to famiylsearch.org says
Daniel Gardner - love Furnifer 6th March 1769 Tenterden Kent
Which would make Daniel aged 21 sounds better :)
There were a family of Gardner who were travellers married into Lane/Smith/Warne that were travellers around the Surrey and Kent areas.
Mitcham Surrey seemed to be a favourite place for families
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Not sure if any help but found this
1841 there is a Love Gardner b 1766 Gloucestershire living with a family
in Keynsham Sound well Mangotsfield
Other people listed
BRACEY, Hannah F 70 1771 Gloucestershire
BRACEY, Ann F 50 1791 Gloucestershire
BRACEY, Elizabeth F 30 1811 Gloucestershire
BRACEY, Eliza F 8 1833 Gloucestershire
BRACEY, John M 5 1836 Gloucestershire
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Hi Tiggi
There were a family of Gardner who were travellers married into Lane/Smith/Warne that were travellers around the Surrey and Kent areas.
Mitcham Surrey seemed to be a favourite place for families
That's the ones I am descended from ;D
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just a point I note you say Daniel Gardner was bapt 1748 married 1762?
This would only make him 14 when he married?
would that be abit young
Ooops! My mistake! It is 1769
There were a family of Gardner who were travellers married into Lane/Smith/Warne that were travellers around the Surrey and Kent areas.
Mitcham Surrey seemed to be a favourite place for families
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Not sure if any help but found this
1841 there is a Love Gardner b 1766 Gloucestershire living with a family
in Keynsham Sound well Mangotsfield
Other people listed
BRACEY, Hannah F 70 1771 Gloucestershire
BRACEY, Ann F 50 1791 Gloucestershire
BRACEY, Elizabeth F 30 1811 Gloucestershire
BRACEY, Eliza F 8 1833 Gloucestershire
BRACEY, John M 5 1836 Gloucestershire
The Mitcham Gardners could be linked - Surrey not bein too far away.
What a coincidence to find another Love Gardner in Gloucestershire -as it is the 1841 census, the year of birth could be out by 5 years or so. This Love might well be a daughter of Love & Daniel.....does it say whether she was born in county or not?
Edited: Ooops again - I see you have put Gloucestershire. I wonder if we can find her parentage?
Lemmey - I said we could be related! ;D
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Sadly the problem you have snowyw like many of us trying to trace ancestors
nothing is ever easy to find.. :)
I did find something though could be their child as the marriage is same place
Daniel Gardner - love Furnifer 6th March 1769 Tenterden Kent
Ann Gardner bapt 5th August 1770 Tenterden Kent - Daniel & Love
The only Ann Gardner marriage I can find was this one again nothing confirmed and not sure how far Cobham is from Tenterden ?
Ann Gardner - George Phillips 4th Dec 1789 Cobham Kent
St.Mary Magdalene Cobham 1760-1851
Some more records again not proved links
Daniel Gardner bapt 1818 Ewhurst Sussex - James & Dorcas
Mary Gardner 9th Jan 1820 Ewhurst Sussex James & Dorcas
Emma Gardner 23rd Dec 1821 Ewhurst Sussex James & Dorcas
Sedlecombe & Ewhurst are both in East Sussex and 7-10miles of North Hastings
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Thanks Tiggi.
I found the baptism on Ann too and have concluded that she is my family - Daniel's sister.
I would say Cobham was too far away for settled families, but for travellers - who knows.
As for the Ewhurst lot - they are my family. Daniel's son Shadrach, my 4x gt grandfather settled there and James (who married Dorcas) is his son. I am descended through Shadrach's daughter Elizabeth.
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Not sure if any help but found this
1841 there is a Love Gardner b 1766 Gloucestershire living with a family
in Keynsham Sound well Mangotsfield
Other people listed
BRACEY, Hannah F 70 1771 Gloucestershire
BRACEY, Ann F 50 1791 Gloucestershire
BRACEY, Elizabeth F 30 1811 Gloucestershire
BRACEY, Eliza F 8 1833 Gloucestershire
BRACEY, John M 5 1836 Gloucestershire
Very interesting. I have a John Gardner, birth abt 1824 in Gloucestershire, England which I've been unable to verify as the name John is too common. He's a 'bit out of the way' birth location wise to Mary Ann Warn, his wife, born abt 1827 in Seal, Kent, England so there must have been some travelling between the south east and south west.
Do you know where Keynsham Sound is? I know where Keynsham is and Mangotsfield. Keynsham is in North Somerset and I don't think has ever been Gloucestershire. Mangotsfield is Bristol so probably once was Gloucestershire. Would be interesting to see those parish records!
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Lemmey - I said we could be related! ;D
Sorry forgot to say in my last post - its sounding more likely by the minute ;D
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Hi Snowyw,
I have today discovered that I have traveller ancestors, and wonder if there may be a link between our families. My 4 x Great Grandfather was Francis Gardner born in Ashford, Kent in 1811. The IGI would suggest that his parents were 'Daniel and Sarah' - I wondered if he could perhaps be the son of your Daniel?
Francis and his spouse Jemima (surname unknown) had at least 9 children.
Thomas 1837 Lenham
Elizabeth 1840 Ulcombe
Francis 1841 Braeborne
Robert 1842-44 Waltham
Cecilyer 1847 Lyminge
Francis 1850 Braeborne
Maria 1851 Sandwich
Samson 1852 Sellindge
Mary Ann 1853 Sandwich
They were a travelling family of Licensed Hawkers and during the various census years can mainly be found in the Woodnesborough area of Kent. On the 1861 census they are listed as 'in a caravan' at The Street, Woodnesborough. My 3 x Gt Grandfather Robert (listed above) remained in the Woodnesborough area for many decades & was a 'chair bottomer'.
Hope this may be of some interest & that we may have a connection. ::)
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A Francis GARDINER (or variant spelling) married a Jemima DRAPER at Tenterden 28 Dec 1829. Possible daughter Sarah baptised Tenterden 1832 and possible son Daniel 1831 Canterbury which may be relevant http://www.familysearch.org
Casalguidi :)
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Thank you for that Casalguidi. So far I have been unable to locate any 'likely' marriages at all. That certainly gives me another avenue of research...
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Hi Dovershark & welcome to RC
Unfortunately, I have not found a link between my Gardners to the Ashford lot, although it seems likely they were connected. My Daniel was baptised in Sedlescombe in Sussex and married in Tenterden Kent.
Have you seen the baptism of Edward Gardner 18 Feb 1816 Ticehurst Sussex - Parents Daniel & Sarah. He is possibly a brother of your Frances. This is on Familysearch.
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Thank you Snowyw
Oh well that's a shame; never mind. I hadn't seen the Ticehurst baptism, but as you say, it certainly looks promising.
Grateful for your help.
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JUST BRINGING THIS THRERAD TO LIFE AGAIN AS I AM HELPING snowyw.hi lemmie?how are you dear.never thought i would be chasing your family???did you know some of my dalys,cooks,millards and less come from around keynsham.
enough lets help snowyw find james i have a few ideas and theres more in fo on the ancestry boards now so lets crack this one.
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Thank you Cathay. I think I need to write out all these families on an enormous sheet of paper and see how many I can join. I need to get my head around this again. :)