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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lincolnshire Lookup Requests => Lincolnshire => England => Lincolnshire Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: Tom Piper on Monday 02 April 12 13:34 BST (UK)
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My great grandmother was Annie Aylward Belding who I have always known was born in Tydd St Giles on Cambridgeshire in 1859-there was a birth registered in Wisbech RD in December qtr of 1859. Her father was John Walker Belding, mother Mary Aylward, John's occupation tailor, they lived at Tydd St Mary. I don't have the certificate, but her marriage cert confirms her maiden name, name of her father and his occupation.
However, there this baptism at Tydd St Mary from Lincs to the Past:
Number 566: Privately May 4th 1858, Annie, daughter of John & Mary Belding, resident in the village of Tydd St Mary, occupation of father is shown as tailor.
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=554436&iid=205434
I can't find birth for a person called Annie/Ann in 1858 with a surname of Belding or similar to it. Could it be that they just forgot to register it in 1858-how long have you to register the birth before the authorities start to take notice?
Tom
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Hi
Although registration was introduced in 1837 it didn't become compulsory until 1875 and here was no penalty for parents who didn't register a birth until 1875, when a £2 fine was introduced.
I think a lot of parents considered that a baptism was all they needed.
http://www.exploregenealogy.co.uk/birthcertificates.html
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Thanks Groom, that explains a lot. I have sent for the certificate anyway just to be sure. Compulsory Vaccination against what I wonder?
Tom
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Can you see her in 1861?
There ought to be a clear indication if she was aged 1 or 3.
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That's the trouble Geoff I can't find the Mary Walker & family at all in 1861. Only Dad, John Walker Belding or Beldon, born 1824/1829( there are two baptisms in Long Sutton that could both be him) on the census is a tailor, visiting the home of a publican in Boston.
This is him on A*****y Class: RG 9; Piece: 2336; Folio: 87; Page: 13; GSU roll: 542955.
Tom
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That's the trouble Geoff I can't find the Mary Walker & family at all in 1861. Only Dad, John Walker Belding or Beldon, born 1824/1829( there are two baptisms in Long Sutton that could both be him) on the census is a tailor, visiting the home of a publican in Boston.
This is him on A*****y Class: RG 9; Piece: 2336; Folio: 87; Page: 13; GSU roll: 542955.
Tom
That man is listed on A as John Beldon,looks like it says he was a Sailor and is married.
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So this is the parents marriage then?
No middle name given for John here.
Marriages Jun 1848
Aylward Mary Holbeach ref 14 page 727
BELDING John Holbeach ref 14 page 727
And in 1851 in Tydd St Mary with two of their older children.
John Belding 29 journeyman Tailor
Mary Belding 26
Lucy Ann Belding 1
Mary Elizabeth Belding 6 Mo
HO107/2097 folio 136 page 5.
Hopefully that'll make it easier for us to spot them in 1861 ;D
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Yes that's the marriage:
25 June 1848, at Tydd St Mary (source British Isles Vital Records Index from Family Search
Collection: St Mary
Husband's Father: William BELDING
Wife's Father: Henry AYLWARD
Can you explain why it should be easier to spot them?
Tom
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Yes that's the marriage:
25 June 1848, at Tydd St Mary (source British Isles Vital Records Index from Family Search
Collection: St Mary
Husband's Father: William BELDING
Wife's Father: Henry AYLWARD
Can you explain why it should be easier to spot them?
Tom
Because it gives the names,places and dates of birth of two more people in the family- Lucy and Mary.
Sadly I still can't find them- so I wonder if they've been missed off or down with a different surname altogether?
Carol
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The only burial I can see that looks like one of John & Mary's children....
Burial, Tydd St Mary - Mary Elizabeth Belding, 30th April 1855, aged 6yrs
There is a death registration for a Lucy Ann Belding in 1855, JuneQ, Holbeach R/D.... but no age to help and I can't find a burial :-\
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I see from the 1881 census it can't be the correct burial for Mary Elizabeth Belding as she is married by then to John Leafe and sister in law Annie A Belding is with them.
1881 - RG11/ Piece/ 3268/ Folio: 123/ Page 12 - 221 Cleethorpes Road, Great Grimsby, Lincolnshire
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If you follow this link: http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=554022&iid=207034, that will show a burial at Tydd St Mary, of a person which looks like May Elizabeth Belding on 30th April 1855, buried at Tydd St Mary by a James Barryman, officiating minister.
Because all the writing is the same I think that these records are Bishops Transcripts as opposed to the original entries by the parish clerk, but if they are the original, it certainly isn't Lucy Ann Belding at all.
Certainly Mary Elizabeth Belding did marry John Leng Leafe in Boston in September 1870.
In a previous entry I said Mary Walker, I meant Mary Belding ne Aylward, who was married to John Walker Belding.
Tom
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Free BMD does indeed have this death.
Deaths Jun 1855
Belding Lucy Ann Holbeach 7a 203 (although looking at the image it should read 208- I have notified them of that)
Carol
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So it seems then that registered births before 1875 cannot always be trusted, but it is very confusing isn't? The reason for starting this thread was because looking at the lists of registered births on Free BMD for Belding children born between 1848 & 1861, there seemed to be two born in the same year, but within 6 months of one another. These two seemed to be of the same parents. They were Anne Aylward Belding in Wisbeach in December 1859 & William Belding in St Luke, Middlesex in June 1859. This second child, William, aged 2, bn. Middlesex, NK, I have found in the 1861 census with his grand parents in Long Sutton, William & Lucy Belding, who were grand parents of Anne Aylward Belding as well.
Seeing both children being born so close together and in a place so far from Lincolnshire made me wonder if they had the same mother? Now it seems the whole family moved to London after the birth of Anne Belding in 1858, as opposed to 1859.
Thanks for all your contributions.
Tom
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but within 6 months of one another. These two seemed to be of the same parents.
Not physically possible. ;D However, remember that the registration was quarterly, so if one was born late December they would be probably be registered in the March quarter and if the second was registered in the September quarter there might just be 9 months between them. Allowing for premature births, just possible. I would think they are more likely to be cousins sharing the same grandparents.
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By the way,I presume you've found 12 year old William in an orphange in 1871?
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Oh Yes, William was at Ashley Down House, Muller Orphanages in Bristol-apparently I have also only recently discovered that in 1862, the Holbeach Union were involved in the life of young William,; it seems that he was considered an orphan in that year, even though his parents which I think were his were both alive, so it would seem that he may have been sent there as young as 3. I think I will contact the Muller Orphanages and see what records they have.
MULLERS HOMES FOR CHILDREN ADMIN. MULLER HOUSE.
7 COTHAM PK. BRISTOL. 0117 924 5001
I believe there is a £25 charge for records.
see thread: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,326423.0.html
I don't know what happened to William after 1871.
Mind you his other brother Prior went to an orphanage in Clapham, London, Stockwell Orphanage, and his brother George must have gone to one in Manchester, because he re-appears in 1881 in Salford as a baker.
As regards the birth of Annie & William, clearly Annie wasn't born in 1859, just registered then, she was born in May 1858, as the baptism at Tydd St Mary states 4th May 1858, baptised privately, parents John & Mary, him a tailor.
Tom
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Unfortunately I have now discovered what really happened-it wasn't a late registration at all. Annie Belding was christened on 4th May 1858 at Tydd St Mary, by a David Long, curate, daughter of John & Mary Belding as per first line of thread, however, she was buried, 3 days later at the same church, on 7th May, so most likely was christened privately because of imminent death.
See this link
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=554022&iid=207047
There is a death recorded at Holbeach RD in June qtr of 1858, Holbeach 7a 218, no need to register birth & death at same time.
So the birth in 1859 still most likely, await birth cert, which makes the birth of William still a problem-Oh well back to the drawing board!
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If William is down as grandson, it is probable that he is a cousin to Annie, you may have to get his birth certificate to find out who his parents were.
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Yes, that would seem to be the thing to do, it might clear up a problem or two.
Tom