RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: Keith Sherwood on Wednesday 18 May 05 12:51 BST (UK)
-
Hi, Everyone,
I was recently able to trace back one of my lines to Anstey in Leicestershire. In one of the earliest Censuses every single member of the family was listed as being a "Framework Knitter", however young they appeared to be.
Someone put me right on what kind of knitting this would have been, and was it fairly typical for this part of England in the 1840's/1850's...
Very best wishes,
Keith
-
Hi Keith,
When in doubt, my motto is Google it :D
Here's some stuff I found:
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/goth/photo21.htm
http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/A11-FWK.htm
http://webpages.charter.net/neith/FWK/
A tough old occupation.
Regards
Jonathan
-
Hi, Jonathan,
Yes, a tough way to make a living, and the wirksworth website was particularly interesting. And FWK not being a rude word might have been the forerunner of French Connections and their rather more provocative FCUK logo perhaps.
Must have been extremely noisy and dusty around those frames, though...
Keith
-
:) :) :)
For those who are interested in Framework Knitters I recently bought a book from the Nottingham Family History Society called
As poor as a stockinger: Framework knitting and the Luddites in Nottinghamshire by Christopher Weir.
It is an A4 paperback, 24 pages long approx £4. It is very informative, an easy read and has lots of illustrations.
Many of my ancestors were FWKs before moving into the lace trade. It really sets the scene and makes you appreciate how poor they were and how the industry was organised. A really hard life.
The link for NFHS is:
www.nottsfhs.org.uk
Jane
-
Jane,
I'll definitely get hold of a copy of that booklet. Thanks so much for bringing my attention to it...
Very best wishes,
Keith
-
J.l. & Barbara Hammond wrote 3 books on the industrial revolution. "The Skilled Labourer" has a long chapter on FWK and follow up with achapter on the Luddites.
Well worth reading if you are interested in FWK.
Gerald.
-
Hi Keith,
If you, or anyone else can ever get to Hinckley in Leicestershire there is a Frame Work Knitting museum. It's in an original framework knitters cottage. Extremely interesting!
Sue
-
Keith
Did you see my post about Ruddington Framwork Knitters Museum? Its in Nottinghamshire but will give you a huge insight as I put loads of photos together. The links are
http://photobucket.com/albums/y277/swanjane/Ruddington%20Framework%20Knitters%20Museum/
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,62211.0.html
Jane
-
Hi, Gerald, Sue and Jane,
So strange with some threads - all quiet on the Framework Knitters front for over 3 months, then suddenly it bursts back into action with machine gun rapidity (sorry about the allusions, I've been reading too much about The Great War recently, particularly Edmund Blunden's excellent:"Undertones of War")
But thanks so much for mention of those books, Gerald; and I will definitely pay a visit to Hinckley and/or Ruddington next time I'm in the East Midlands....
very best wishes,
keith
-
Hi, everyone into FWK,
CanSue provide the address and opening times of the Hinckley museum.
My dad and his brother both married Fells-one from M.Woodhouse and the other from Arnold but no relation. The girls in both families worked in the Hosiery Trade and the house were always full of stockings for inspection. Bernard was a fitter and when the lace mills were bought out he went to install the new machines andwas met by Luddites threats until he produced his pay slips. That was in the 1950s!.
Gerald
-
Hi, Gerald,
What a strange coincidence that FELLS feature so recently in your family. The FELL/FELLS family that married into my POLLARD family (who started my curiosity about this absolutely fascinating subject of Framework Knitting) came from Elkesley in Nottinghamshire. They were ag. labs. and one became a farm bailiff.
Where exactly is M.Woodhouse and Arnold - are they places in Notts or Leics?
Very best wishes,
Keith
-
Hi Keith
Mansfield Woodhouse is in North Notts, 12-15 miles from Elkesley, and Arnold is about 4 miles N from Nottingham City Centre. I work in Arnold and I am based in what was an old mill. We have some information displayed and I have already asked our receptionist to scan it so I can post it on Rootschat. I must remind her on Monday.
Jane
-
Hi all, May be Keith has a link to the actress SUE POLLARD- of Hi De-Hi fame. Shecomes from Nottingham and originally worked at Nottm C-op Educ Dept.
The FELLS have made my day due to the link with Keith.
Gerald
-
Hi Gerald
I am so pleased to hear of your success today. You must be really chuffed. What a good start to the weekend.
Gerald and Keith
If I can help with Nottingham stuff please ask.
Jane
-
Hi again, Jane,
Have been busy exchanging FELL/FELLS family info. via personal messages with Wilkipet. He seems much more familiar with this area of NOTTS than I am at the moment, so it will probably be me who'll be the one asking for help! Thanks for making me realise M.Woodhouse meant Mansfield Woodhouse, for instance...
Used to spend family holidays with my uncle in a lovely 500-year-old house in the grounds of Newstead Abbey in the 1950's, but haven't been back to the area since. Shame on me!
And I'd never realised that Sue Pollard was from this area too. My branch of POLLARDS come from Anstey in Leics, but I suppose that's not all that far away...
Keith
-
Hi follks, re Newstead Abbey. Go to http://www.mansfieldtoday.co.uk - the website for the Mansfield Chad where you will find some lovely photos of the Abbey and grounds. My g.aunt owne a hoouse in the grounds until end of WW11- maybe the same as Keith's uncle.
You know they say all the people from Annesley share the same ancestor- the bad Lord Georhe Byron!
Gerald
-
Thanks for that Gerald,
Just hope that Lord Byron kept away from any of the womenfolk in my family that may have lived in the Annesley area...!
Keith
-
Gerald
Thanks for the link. I've just had a browse and brought back memories of many childhood Sunday afternoon trips. Chatsworth, Newstead, Pooles Cavern etc. I've also passed the crooked spire many times!
Jane
-
Hi
Just found these links. They are new to me. Both very interesting for FWK.
Hinckley District Museum
http://www.hinckleyandbosworthonline.org.uk/pp/business/bronze.asp?id=27907
Knitting Together
http://www.knittingtogether.org.uk/
Jane
-
Well done with those two, Jane,
More fascinating reading on the subject! And I've been receiving PM's from a Rootschatter whose husband has been following this FWK thread with great interest too - they have possibly more parish record details on my POLLARD family of framework knitters in Anstey...
Keith
-
Hi Keith
On the Knitting Together site it mentions small museums in Notts, Derbys and Leics aswell. I will keep these in mind and try to go to some of them. When I do I will take my camera and let you know what they are like.
Jane
-
Jane,
This humble little thread seems to be knitting together really well, an excellent source for others who might find this an interesting topic, if you'll excuse the pun. More photographs would certainly add to the general picture...
Keith
-
hi folks, I havejust been reading the Notts FHS journals where I foundsome interesting articleson FWK.
Jan 2003 Vol No 10 photo in Calverton parish church of window portraying Rev. William Lee, the inventor of the FWK.
In theOct 2003 is a Book Appreciation of the Nottinghamshire Lace Makers. It is out of print but ca be found. Apparently there is list of knitterswho signed a deed restricting working hours etc. Some Notts librarieshave copies.
Gerald
-
Gerald,
Nice to think a Reverend was responsible for starting the whole FWK thing off. It also seems as though Notts. is as strong an area for it as Leics. Does the Calverton window actually depict the Rev. Lee with his invention, do you know...?
Keith
-
Hi
I can't find reference to the window but the church has a website
http://www.stwilfrids.co.uk/
There is a memorial window in Christs College Cambridge to William Lee. Lee received his theological training at Cambridge. He then became Curate at St Wilfrids until his stocking frame duties took over. He invented the frame about 1589.
Jane
-
Jane,
More fascinating details - I had no idea that Gerald was talking about so early a date. I must pop down the road, then, and have a look inside Christs College over the weekend. I presume the memorial to William Lee is in the chapel there?
Keith
-
hi Keith and Jane, The window is on the front page of the journal.
The three counties of the East Mids were all active in the knitting business. The top brand names go back to the beginning of the 17th century, when they were the merchants.
The London Guild forced the business out to the Midlands.
They even went to Calais to avoid the restrictions, smuggling out the essential parts. It wasbasically a family affair with Dad working the machine(s) and doing some ag.lab while mother, and the kids did most of the work. It has been said the factory was actually easier on the women and children. I read the other daythat thewomen in the hosiery trade in the 1950s were earning 4 x their husbands'wages in the pit. I know my aunts were very well off (relatively!).
But it allcame to an end about the same time as coal.
Gerald
-
Hi
My greatgrandfather owned a lace factory in Long Eaton Derbyshire and it was passed on to my grandpa and his brothers. They led a comfortable life and their staff were treated fairly.
FWK in the 19th century was a poor occupation with the frame owners making the money and the knitters families working all hours for little money. A dreadful existance, talk about poverty. The Luddites started in Nottingham as a rebellion against high rents for frames, a bit like Robin Hood. The frames that were used for quick straight pieces of material which were then finished by seamers, all earning next to nothing, rather than producing fully fashioned stockings were smashed. A law was passed, which Lord Byron opposed, to hang anyone caught smashing frames. People were indeed hung. This was in the early 1800s. An enquiry in 1844 found their conditions deplorable, overcrowding, poverty and 14 hour days, with hosiers charging high frame rents, substituting goods instead of regular wages and for 1 woman because she couldn't work due to pregnancy and other family commitments had to pay the hosier a fine!
The window in Christs College is tall and narrow depicting Gulielmus Lee holding a mini version of an early frame. There is a maroon back drop. He is wearing a royal blue jacket and emerald green 'floppy hat' and 'swathed in a green sheet of material' (sorry don't know the correct terms for the clothing). The name is below his feet and then below that is a heraldic shield, 3 crooses acros the top, blue and yellow checks across the middle and 3 more crosses at the bottom. At the very top of the window there is a yellow portcullis.
Jane
Jane
-
Jane,
I love the way this thread has slowly revealed more and more details of the whole FWK subject, thanks to you and others.
And due to your explicit description I can hardly fall over that window in Christ's College and not notice it now, can I? All I need to do is try and fight my way past the porter's lodge and have a good look at it, maybe take a picture if I'm allowed - perhaps this weekend...
Very best wishes,
keith
-
Hi Jane andKeith,
I have been looking at the poll book for Nottingham for 1754 and was amazed to see how many FWK workers were listed as voters. Firstly, I always thought the poll was fixed and not ordinary folk had the vote and secondly howwidespread the knitworkers were in the whole county at that time. Lots of Wilkinson but I doubt they were of our family but surprisingly no Fells.
Did you get the Rev's photo from Cambridge, Keith?
Gerald
-
Hi Gerald
Only yesterday I was looking at electoral registers for the first time. I was looking at 1873 - 1886 in Derbyshire. There were the rich ones over £50 rateable value but mine were in rateable value £12 & under £50 rental or occupation voters other than lodgers.
I'm not too clear about these categories and I will get clarification next time I go to my local archives (Nottingham) which I go to most weeks. But it did reassure me that certainly at the end of the 19th century it wasn't just the really rich who could vote, the fact it was only men of course I won't comment on as I don't want to open up a hornets nest.
I have got Sheila Masons book out of the library at the moment, Nottingham Lace 1760s-1950s. This goes into great detail about every aspect of FWK and the development into steam powered machines, the jacquard machinery which allowed it all to become automated. It details the numbers of machines through the 3 counties, Derbys, Leics and Notts and the factories some of which are familiar to me. Well worth a read.
I have recently found some samples of lace from grandpas factory from the 1940s in amongst some old photos. I will have a good look at them when I get time. If they are great interest I may be able to scan them and post them on here. (I've been too busy at work recently to get much done).
Jane
-
Hi Gerald,
As Mr Crowe kept saying in the film "Gladiator", not yet, not yet. The weekend turned differently from expected, but it's definitely on the urgently pending list - the snap of the Rev. Lee, I mean
And Jane, keep all this excellent first-hand detail of this remarkable industry coming....great!
Keith
-
I have just come across an article called "Allabout fabrics.especially the lace industry" on a web site http://www.btinternet.com/-nttsue/TradeFrabrics.html
(the hyphen is wrinkled-a sign not on a Spanish keyboard). It is too long to copy but gives the history of the hosiery and lace trade. At this end is a useful site list.
Gerald
-
Gerald,
Well done with this latest contribution to the melting pot (or framework might be a better description). Glad to say that good old Anglican keyboards have a wrinkled hyphen key, so we can enjoy the link! (I wonder what the correct technical term is - I have absolutely no idea being a commuter dinosaur, but I'm sure somebody on this site will put us right...)
Ashamed to say that I went on a trip yesterday to Bury St. Edmunds in Suffolk on the family history quest, but STILL have not made the mile-long journey down the road to photo that memorial window. Definitely top sheet in the pending tray, though...
Keith
-
Corrected url
http://www.btinternet.com/~nttsue/TradeFabrics.html
Wrinkled hyphen key - tylde ~
Cheers
Guy
-
Thanks, Guy. I suppose as in Spain we have the Ñ (n tilde) we don't get a tilde standing alone. I least I can copy your link.
Gerald
-
Keith
Just to wet your appetite
Jane
Copyright: Nottinghamshire County Council Community Services 1998 ISBN 0 902751 16 6
-
Jane,
That's an absolutely splendid photo of that window! It seems hardly worth my while to take a snap of my own - I might just go and admire it instead, then just look it up on this thread whenever I want to remind myself about Mr Gulielmus Lee...
Keith
-
Keith
It is only a scan of the picture on the back cover of 'As Poor as a Stockinger' by Christopher Weir' though it did come out rather well.
Jane
Copyright: Nottinghamshire County Council Community Services 1998 ISBN 0 902751 16 6
-
Hi
As promised I found some lace samples from Grandpas factory. This piece was sent to America in about 1924. It was made at Oakleas Mill, Long Eaton, Derbyshire. I presume the firm was called J W Comery & Sons.
Jane
-
Its hard to believe delicate pieces of lace were made on huge machines like these.
Jane
-
A piece of 1940/50s lace worn as a wedding dress by Regs niece in America.
Jane
-
Jane,
More incredible photos...! Amazing, as you say, that such delicate items could have been made on such a large machine as that. This thread is becoming a little museum and reference work of its own...
Keith
-
Hi
I have said before that I work in an old mill. I have attached a photo before it was refurbished. Also a scan of the information that is on the wall telling the history of the building. If anyone has connections with the building let me know as there is a larger history board downstairs.
Jane
-
...and the others
-
HI all
Interesting re the knitters. I live and work in Loughborough and a few doors away is a small shop front (I think called Lantern House or something) where an inventor made an invention re the lace and framework. It was not well received in Loughborough so he moved to Leicester. This shop is not commemorated with a plaque or anything and is going to rack and ruin as the local takeaway uses it as a storage place. All boarded up now. Shame because it has some history re the industry which was important.
Cheers
John Rowley
-
Hi, John,
Jane will be wringing her hands when she gets to read your posting. I suppose it is too late to do anything now about this piece of local history...
Keith
-
Hi John and Keith
A shame indeed. I cannot find anything on the internet about it. You would hope the local archives/museums would at least record it as photos before it disappears completely.
Jane
-
I can take a picture of it. I know there was an article in the Loughborough Echo a few months ago or more. I will see if I can track it down. Would you like the photo Jane on rootsweb or PM me? Let me know as I can do it tomorrow for the photo.
Cheers
John Rowley
-
Hi, just posting to say that i live in Hinckley and the museum is very good.
This site has pictures of it and lots of other buildings in Hinckley and some other details of Hinckleys past.
http://www.hinckley.netfirms.com/index.htm
Kev. ;D
-
Thanks Kev. I must go sometime
Jane
-
Hi again, everyone,
On my way back from the County Record Office I called in at the porter's lodge, Christ's College, Cambridge, and asked to see the William Lee stained glass window. I was sent first to the Chapel - which is really nice and open to the public - but The Rev. Lee was not staring down at me anywhere there.
Retraced my steps, and one of the porters took me to the Great Hall, but (and this is Cambridge University, remember), the dons were having their lunch in there at about 1 p.m. and he decided I couldn't go inside to get a viewing.
Made do with the window pointed out from the outside of the building; this particular porter knew the window, but had always thought it was a woman's figure because of the draped clothing. At least he's learnt something today.
If I want to see William Lee in all his glory I need to arrange an appointment with the Domestic Bursar...
I think your wonderful image on here will do quite well instead, Jane.
Keith
-
Keith
How disappointing. I wonder if the dons know it is William Lee watching them eat their lunch each day?
Jane
-
Hi Jane
Still waiting for the Loughborough Echo newspaper to get back to me re the article. Hoping to take the photo very shortly so will post.
Cheers
John Rowley
-
Hi folks, The thread hasgone a long way while I have been off line. Jacqueline and Paul are we have been taking them round and J. is updating the computer. I now have wi.fi and more storage. I get the computer back on Saturday night.
We are comimg to UK on 2nd November but are staying in Newbury to get our own back. Keep up the good work.
Gerald
-
Hi All again
For Jane Swan in particular:
Have traced some info re the building in Lougborough. the building was called Lantern Hoduse, it was built by John Heathcote and next door to the right as you look at it is the guest house and then the music shop where I work. The guest house was also built by John Heathcote for his works manager. But when there was trouble at t'mill as one says John Heathcote up sticks and went to Tiverton in Devon with some of his workforce. There is a row of cottages in Tiverton called Loughborough. Photo coming soon. Watch this space!
Cheers
John Rowley
-
John
Thanks for the update. I can't wait for the photo.
Jane
-
John,
Well done with all this on-the-spot detail about Loughborough. Can't wait to see the photo either, after my abortive attempt to disturb those Cambridge dons over their lunch the other day. (At least we know for future reference that the Rev. Lee looks down in the Great Hall rather than the Chapel at Christ's College)
By the way, I knew there was something else - one of my daughter's best friends in Cambridge has the family name PEPPERCORN, which I see you are tracing in a village just outside Cambridge, called Lolworth. I find it a splendid and most unusual name, but maybe it is not quite so rare as I first thought. If you want to discuss the name, then maybe PM me.
But back to this excellent thread and the framework knitters...(never realised when I made my first tentative posting that it would be flourishing so strongly - thanks mainly to Jane, of course.)
Keith
-
Hi
This has gone a long way from Leicestershire but....
I have a family born 1760 in Bulwell, Nottm, married 1781, had 2 or 3 children then moved to Twerton, Somerset and worked in a mill there for 8 years. Had 2 more children there then moved back to Mansfield, Nottm to carry on as FWK.
Why on earth would they do this? Somerset is many miles from Nottm. As Nottm is miles from the sea they couldn't jump on a boat. I don't know if canals existed then. I can't imagine they had enough money to do anything. I did wonder if a mill owner relocated to Somerset but why would they come back after 8 years?
I have looked at Twerton on the web and it is just outside Bath. It did have mills, lace and wool. Any thoughts why they did this would be great as it might give me a lead to follow. The head of the household was Daniel Comery.
I have checked Masons book and Felkin but Twerton is not mentioned and Somerset only has a couple of mentions.
Jane
-
Even more breaking news is there is going to be some sort of display at Charnwood Museum in Loughborough next year re Lantern House and presumably John Heathcote and I suppose framework knitting or something. Details sketchy at the moment but watch this space! May have photo by next week sometime.
On the opposite side of the road where the park is there used to be the main A6 road into Loughborough, it is now a long thin parking spaces and the A6 runs alongside.
Cheers
John Rowley
-
Hi All
Pictures as promised for Jane Swan etc. Lantern House built by Heathcote. Also the B&B was built by him as well for his works manager. I work next door to the right in the music shop.
Might need to post more than once as have never done this before.
John Rowley
-
Hi all
Final 2 pictures showing close up and the disgraceful state it is in. Apparently the owners (who also run a local indian curry house) have planning permission for a restaurant for Lantern House!
Comments welcome!
Cheers
John Rowley
-
John,
Brilliant photographs - well done! You mentioning that you work almost next door in the music shop reminds me of Nick Hornby's excellent book: "High Fidelity"; though the film that followed was set in the U.S.
But I do hope somebody does something to . important piece of heritage...
Very best wishes,
Keith
-
Hi John
What great pictures. They would have been quite impressive in their day. Lets hope they don't make too many alterations and then next time it is sold it may be restored. I wonder what the local heritage people think, its a shame they haven't slapped a conservation order on it.
Jane
-
Hi Jane
There was some vague outcry in the local paper ie Loughborough Echo, but nobody seems interested, not even a plaque to go on the wall or something. A shame really. :(
John Rowley
-
Hi Keith and John
Not quite framework knitters or Leicestershire but I thought you might be interested in the photos in this article. There are good ones when it was a lace mill.
This was only written this July but unfortunately the factory had a fire this year that closed it down but the shell survived. They have now converted it in to apartments. It is just down the road from me.
http://www.angloscotianmills.co.uk/history.pdf
Jane
-
Hi Keith
My family were also Framework Knitters in Leicestershire. There is a Framework Knitters Museum in Wigston, Leics that you would find really interesting. All the knitting Frames are still there in their orignal condition, it is like walking into a time capsule from the past. It is well worth a visit if you ever have the time.
Susan
-
Hi Susan
Thanks for the info. I must go there some day. Its nice to have another FWK on board and welcome to Rootschat.
Jane
-
Susan,
Hear hear to all that...! This has been an unexpectedly rich thread, full of all kinds of excellent information re the FWK's, mostly thanks to Jane, I must say - but some really good contributions from other Rootschatters.
Welcome aboard...
Keith
-
Have today read details of an impassioned speech Lord Byron made as his maiden address in the House of Lords in about 1812 as a mere 23-year-old on behalf of the Framework Knitters of Nottinghamshire (he of course had the Newstead Abbey estate). He spoke boldly against moves to re-introduce the death penalty for those found guilty of breaking the machines that were putting everybody out of work. (All part of the Luddite unrest)
Ian Gilmour's book is entitled "The Making of Poets", and describes the early lives of Byron and Shelley...
Keith
-
Hi Keith
It's nice to know you are so cultured to be reading a book of that quality.
I have sent you a PM.
Jane
-
Jane,
I love a good read - especially a biography! The reference to our poor downtrodden early 19thC FWK's just happened to catch my eye...
keith
-
Knitting Together
http://www.knittingtogether.org.uk/
This is a truly wonderful site. I found out loads about John Adams Bolton (my GG Uncle) who started the Chilprufe company in Leicester.
Does anybody have any relatives still alive that might have worked for him at Chilprufe and who may have some photographs tucked away?
Rob Bolton
-
Hi All
Lynxafrica - try the Leicester Mercury as they have archive photos etc and can place a request for info in the paper. Also Leicestershire Archives in Leicester may have info on the company as records are often deposited. The national gov website access to archives (a2a.org I think) allows you to keyword search on docs and tells you what part of the country it is located.
Hope this helps a bit.
Cheers
John Rowley
-
Hi folks,
I have just received the magazine from the Nottinghamshire Local History Society, which has an article by Professor StanleyChapman entitled "Seated Labour in the Nottingham Lace Industry asa follow up to his articleabout Birkins. They sent me three copies so if any one would like a copy send me a PM with your address.
Gerald
-
Hi all you FWK researchers,
Some of my rellies were Frame Work Knitters. They lived in Mountsorrel and Wigston, Leicestershire,
circa 1800.
I must visit the museums in Hinckley and Wigston the next time I'm up that way.
Regards, Foz
-
Hi again, everyone,
Great to be back, and just to make sure this FWK thread doesn't sink into oblivion, I'd like to mention that recently on GenesConnected I contacted a gentleman in Sydney Australia who has the same b.1744 POLLARD ancestor as me.
So I sent him this WHOLE thread to digest, and he tells me he's writing a book about the economic and social change in North Leics pre-1914, focussing on a group of villages including Anstey (where his mother was born).
FWK fans and families unite!
Keith
p.s. He's a professor of history, so it should be a very good book...
-
Hi Keith
Its great to have you back. I have been meaning to ask you for ages. Would you mind modifying the title of the post to Leicestershire & Nottinghamshire. This is so it may attract more people from my part of the world.
Jane
-
Right, Jane,
That seems to be a very sensible thing to do...!
Keith
-
Hi All
As part of the Heritage Open Days I have been to G.H. Hurt & Son Ltd., Chilwell, Nottingham today. They have 3 frames working in the corner of the factory which also uses powered machines and several more frames in other parts of the premises just stored in their original condition with the original knitting still on them. They also have old photos and documents displayed on the walls.
They now make traditional shawls for exclusive markets here and abroad. They were demonstrating the whole process including pegging out the shawls to get a scalloped edge and the drying room. They launched a website yesterday which is well worth a look at.
www.ghhurt.com
A fascinating morning. I bought a botany wool fine shawl made to commemorate William Lee.
Jane
-
Jane,
What a splendid time you had there by the sound of things...!
keith
-
Greetings to all FWK researchers from here in the US. I have recently completed a book about our family and am in the process of getting a publisher. It is entitled, "Weavers and Warriors, the Story of the Masland Family." Our roots are deep in the Midlands knitting trade and the book chronicles how the family fled the poverty of the stockingers in the early 1800's and came to America as soldeirs in the Duke of Cornwall's 32nd in Quebec, went AWOL and relocated here. After many adventures and misadventures during our Mexican and Civil wars, the family reestablished the weaving trade in Philadelphia in 1866. 120 years later the business, C. H. Masland & Sons, was bought out for $117 million. It is a fascinating story.
Frank E. Masland IV
Carlisle, Pennsylvania, USA
-
Hi Frank
Wow. What a tale to tell. I hope I will be able to get a copy. Have you managed to get lots of the information on the English ancestors? What part of the midlands were they from?
Jane
-
Frank,
Would also very much like to get hold of a copy of your book, once it all gets published. Perhaps you could PM me with details...
Very best wishes,
keith
-
Hi Keith
I've just been looking at your photo on the Hastings meet. It looks as though you all had a good time. I haven't been on Rootschat for ages as I have been too busy with work and family stuff.
Jane
-
Jane,
A bit windswept and gasping for a chip...Yes it was good, but a terrible pity that not more people joined we few for the day!
keith
-
Hi there, Like Jane I have been absent for some time. I am now doing an online degree in Archaeology with Leicester University. At present I am reading medieval and post medieval archaeology which takes me to the the industrial revolution.The FWK thread is extremely useful and I wonder if anyone objects if I use some of the material and pass the information to the dept and other students.
The result of this study means we are returning to England permanently in September. Most problably to the Loughborough/ Coalville area.
Gerald
-
Gerald,
Great news about all that academic activity of yours! I'm sure no-one would mind if you dipped into this thread (maybe "unpicked a few strands" of this thread might be more appropriate). Don't know whether you need to speak to one of the Moderators about it, though...
Very best wishes,
keith
-
Hi Frank
Wow. What a tale to tell. I hope I will be able to get a copy. Have you managed to get lots of the information on the English ancestors? What part of the midlands were they from?
Jane
Jane,
The book is in the hands of an editor and will be in print this fall (hopefully). I notice by your posting that you research the surname Burrows. In my book there is a Sarah Burrows who is mentioned many times in the letters of Sargeant Major Charles Masland. She was his sweetheart back in England and he was informed of her immigration to the U.S in the summer of 1846 in a letter that was taken from his body when he was killed in battle at the outset of the Mexican War. She was the daughter of Thomas Burrows and Phebe Hutchinson of Arnold, Nottinghamshire, born in 1813. I was wondering if that sounds like some of your clan.
Frank
-
Frank,
Do let us know more details about your book nearer the time it comes out in the autumn, as I'm sure quite a few of us on here would be very interested in buying a copy.
And, Jane, where are you, this BURROWS connection, if indeed Sarah was one of yours, seems quite an incredible story on its own...
keith
-
Keith,
Thanks for your interest, I'll keep you posted on the book's progress.
I have attached a picture that may be of some interest. It is a scan of a certificate of indenture dated 1725 for Charles Paulson, son of John Pawson (Paulson) of Clipston in Nottinghamshire, as an apprentice FWK. I have the original. Charles Paulson was my 6th great grandfather.
Frank
-
Frank,
What a wonderful personal family artefact that is! And nearly 300 years old too...
keith
-
Keith,
The Framework Knitters of Nottingham are of great fascination to me. I am enclosing another picture, this one is of a small packet of needles from a frame that belonged to John Masland, my 3rd great grandfather. He arrived in the US in 1833, a refugee of the poverty that beset the industry at that time.
I have another curious connection to the area and the trade: John Masland's great aunt, Nancy Masland (also spelled Marsland or Marsden), was the governess at Annesley Hall and was the nanny of Mary Ann Chaworth, Lord Byron's distant cousin and love interest. Nancy is mentioned in the book, "Queen of a Fantastic Realm" by Megan Boyes and by Washington Irving in his account of his visit to Annesley and Newstead. Nancy's older sister, Elizabeth, was John Masland's grandmother who bore his father, James, out of wedlock. There is some speculation that she killed herself at Annesley Hall and that her ghost haunts the old hall to this day. Speculation.
Frank
-
Frank,
Can't wait to read the book now! Looking at those needles reminds me that my COCKER family were involved in the manufacture of steel sewing needles in Derbyshire in the early 1800's. When I went to stay for a few days in the village they had their factory in - Hathersage - there were illustrations of the little coloured packets of needles round the border of the map of the village they were selling in the post office.
Nothing to do with the Framework Knitters, but still a fascinating family link with our industrial past...
keith
N.B. I read all about Byron's "calf-love" for Mary Ann Chaworth recently in Ian Gilmour's book: "The Making of The Poets"...
-
Frank, I am Gerald and at present living in Spain but returning to Leicestershire in September. Your artifacts are fantastic. My family comes from Mansfield and Mansfield Woodhouse. I knew Clipstone very well when I was a boy. It has changed since the Collieries ere closed.
Would you let me send copies of your indenture and needles to Professor Marilyn Palmer the head of Industrial Archaeology at Leicester University where I am studying (on line).
Remember me when the book comes out.
Gerald
-
Gerald,
Thanks for your interest. Feel free to forward the pictures to Marilyn.
Here is the text of the indenture:
“This Indenture Witnesseth, That Charles Pawson, son of John Pawson of Clipston in the County of Nottingham, Husbandman, doth put himself apprentice to Christopher Strutt, foreign Brother of the Company of FRAMEWORK-KNITTERS of the City of London, to learn his art, and with him (after the manner of an Apprentice) to serve from the day of this date unto the full End and term of Seven Years from thence next following to be fully complete and ended. During which term the said Apprentice his said Master shall serve, his secrets keep, his lawful Commandments everywhere gladly do. He shall do no Damage to his said Master, nor to see it to be done by others, but that he, to his Power, shall let or forthwith give warning to his said Master of the same. He shall not waste the goods of his said Master, nor lend them unlawfully to any. He shall not commit Fornication, nor contract Matrimony within the said term. He shall not play at Cards, Dice Tables, or any other unlawful games, whereby his Master shall have any loss. With his own goods or other during the said term, without license from his said Master, he shall neither buy nor sell. He shall not haunt Taverns not Play-houses, nor absent himself from his Master’s service day or night unlawfully, but in all things, as a faithful Apprentice he shall behave himself toward his said Master, and all his, during the said term. And the said Master, in consideration of , being the money given him with his said Apprentice, his said Apprentice, in the same Art and Mastery which he useth by the best means he can, shall teach and instruct, or cause to be taught and instructed, finding unto said Apprentice, Meat, Drink, Lodging and all other necessaries, according to the Custom of the City of London, during said term. And for the true Performance of all and every said Covenants and Agreements, either of the said Parties bindeth himself unto the other by these Presents. In Witness thereof the Parties above named to these Indentures interchangeably have put their Hands and Seals the Second Day of November in the Twelfth Year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lord George of Great Britain, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, Anno Domini 1725.”
Another FWK family connection:
Charles Pawson's father was John Pawson of Clipston as previously mentioned, his mother was Elizabeth Brandreth, born 1690 in Sutton-in-Ashfield. The Brandreth family of Sutton-in-Ashfield were also framework knitters, the most famous (or infamous) member being Jeremiah Brandreth, aka "The Captain." He led the failed Pentrich Revolution and lost his head in the process. Another cousin, Thomas Masland, marched along and was held for trial but was not convicted since he was probably just a fringe sympathizer.
Frank Masland
-
What an undertaking that was, according to the indenture. But I suppose it was O.K. once departed from "this mortal coil" to come back and haunt the pub or playhouse that you'd always wanted to patronise during your apprentice years, but weren't allowed to...
keith
-
I have found this thread really interesting! Having just found a few of my past relatives who were in the same trade in Anstey in leicestershire!
Not a job i would envy!
Emma.
-
Keith
Thanks for alerting me to this thread.
Gerald and Frank: as you both live abroad please let me help if need anything from Nottm.
Many of my relatives, Comerys and Burrows were FWKs then lace trade, so this is where my interest has come from. I have not been able to place your Sarah Burrows yet but I may find a link. I work in Arnold at present in an old mill!
Keep posting as this thread is so interesting to many people. I will come back and study it when I have more time.
Jane
-
Jane,
Would indeed be great if you could find a link to Frank's Sarah BURROWS. Never thought when I tentatively started this thread way back when that it would be such a flourishing one...
keith
-
Hi Frank,
RE: Annesley Hall "Most Haunted" (there's been some interest in the TV programme recently among Rootschatters) filmed there. I'm not sure when it was filmed as I often catch repeats, but there was talk of a lady's ghost haunting what's left of the Hall. It still looks beautiful. I went to school close by.
The "Most Haunted" team asked the ghost to stop the pendulum on the enormous clock...and she/he did stop it on film. I seem to remember a sad story linked to ghost. Spookier and spookier.
Michelle :-\
-
Here's a link to the Annesley Hall "Most Haunted"
http://www.livingtv.co.uk/mosthaunted/181.php
Michelle
-
Brandeth and the Pentrich Revolution
J.L. & Barbara Hammond have the story of the Pentrich Revolution in their The Skilled Labourer 1760-1832 pp358-360. The action was stopped by an agent provacteur known as Oliver. Brandreth was one of three hanged and beheaded (but pardoned from being quartered).
-
Phew thank goodness he was only hanged and beheaded eh? :o
Michelle x
-
I have just found a more complete story on the Pentrich Historical Society page whch gives all the names including Thomas Masland and a Burrows. Look at http://www.pentrich.org.uk/html/revolutionaries.all.html
Try it- it's a good story.
Gerald
-
Very interesting website Gerald and not far away from me. I went to school in Hucknall and a lot of the names seem familiar (maybe connected to the area).
I was also interested in the climate changes caused by the eruption of the Tambora Volcano (1816 was known as the year without a summer-adding to the likelihood of starvation as crops failed and increasing tension among the prospective revolutionaries).
Mich ;)
-
Hi Gerald
A very interesting link. Of course I know where Ripley is as I have been there or through it many times but I had to look up Pentrich. It just shows the reversal of size of the two places.
Its an interesting story and I cannot help sympathising with them, they were either very brave or very desperate. The difference between the rich and the ordinary man was obscene, and still is on a global scale.
The penalties paid were harsh but I suppose within the normal scale for those times. They transported people for almost nothing at that time. I have looked into transportation but haven't had to look at life in jail at the time. I can't imagine that was much of a breeze either.
It was a hard life with hard penalties and I still make the mistake of looking back on it with a romantic and sentimental eye.
Jane
-
Have only just found this thread, so hope there are still folks interested in FWK in the East Midlands. Many of the CHANTREY ( CHANTRY /CHANTREE / CHANTERIE /CHAUNTRY) families in Nottinghamshire that I am researching, had this as their occupation.
Don't know if folks are aware that the various Museums mentioned on the thread often have folks actually demonstrating how the machines were used. I know because my daughter as part of her studies is being trained to do this at Ruddington. I sat on Wednesday and watched as she learned how to operate the machine. It was fascinating to watch...it takes eight different moves of pedals and handles to make just one row of knitting...and the noise! Apparently expert knitters could do over 40 rows a minute! I can't imagine the noise at that speed!
Anyhow just thought if you are visiting the East Midlands and visiting a museum, try to do it on a day when there's a demonstration...it's well worth it.
-
Hi, Chantreywood,
Welcome to Rootschat, and thanks very much for your very helpful comments. I imagine you had quite a heavy time wading through over 100 posts on here since this started in May 2005. There's almost enough information on here to write a book on the subject of FWK!
very best wishes,
keith
-
Hi everyone,
Hope you don't mind me joining the thread.
I'm currently researching my husbands family tree - Richards family from Nottingham(at least that's where they were in 1756!).
The family were all framework knitters in the late 18th century, only one still actively doing fwknitting in the late 19th century(I belive this John Richards had a piece of work exhibited in the 1851 exhibition).
On the various trips trying to hunt them all down it has taken me to the Nottm, Archives (to see the framework knitter's charter, the burgess index, the apprenticeship indexes,the lambley charity records, etc. , etc.), the Guildhall Library in London has brilliant records back to c.1680, showing who was apprenticed to who,etc. + contact with The Worshipful Company of Framework knitters, still in Leicester, today. For anyone determined to track down their framework knitting relatives there is a wealth of records to look at.
The company were very helpful and told me about Sheila A Mason's book, called 'The History of the Worshipful Company of Framework Knitters'. (available for sale on amazon, or available in the nottingham library).
They also put me in contact with Sheila who was has done a lot of research on the early knitters' families. She told me that there were lots of family links between them all.
Sadly I still haven't YET solved the next generation down - but the hunt is certainly interesting and has led to all sorts of places around the St.Marys area of Nottingham. It's also interesting to see how some changed direction in their careers, but were always proud to still call themselves framework knitters in their wills. So, the hunt goes on!
Anyway, lovely to read the thread and to see a new book on the horizon.
PAulene.
P.S. Jane, my mum used to have a part-time job at Hurts when I first started junior school. I t was a couple of minutes walk from my school and I would go in and wait for her, and watch them putting the shawls to dry. I've only been on rootschat since Sunday, and have really enjoyed your posts and observing the help you give to everyone . Keep it up!
-
Paulene,
Thanks so much for your very interesting long post! And thanks for the information on The Guildhall Library having such good records on FWK dating back to 1680 - it's a place I really enjoy visiting, and never quite know what exciting finds I'm going to come across next...
keith
-
Hiya everyone,
Thanks so much for your informative and helpful post, Paulene. My interest is in the family history side as so many of my Chantrys are based in Blidworth, Halam, Arnold and Mansfield as FWKs.
My daughter however is interested because she is currently studying for a PhD which involves her working at Ruddington FWK museum to learn the Lee handframe and she also has to work with G.H Hurts soon using their traditional machines. I know the information of public sources you (and others on the thread) have shared will be useful links for her to follow up. So thank-you. Hopefully as her work progresses, the website at Ruddington will have photos of her knitting, and a weblog and photos of items of her work. When it is up and running I will let the thread know the details.
Karen
-
Hi everyone
Paulene- was it College House? I went to Roundhill and you were our enemies in the 1960's!
I was fascinated going round Hurts because Ruddington is a museum and therefore in the past but to see a thriving company, Hurts, but it is also like a museum is amazing. To think that they supply baby shawls etc to Harrods for the likes of Royalty and the famous such as Posh & Becks!
I'm glad we widened this from 'Leics' to 'Leics and Notts' as so many people are on board now.
Karen-what is your daughters PhD in? Apart from going round Hurts and Ruddington I used to work at Byron Court in Arnold which was an old mill.
For those who are not in Nottm I will always try to help, time permitting.
Jane
-
Hi Jane,
Got it in one - like a true family history detective!
My sister went to Roundhill, and I would have, but my family moved from Beeston to Chilwell.
Do you know if Hurts still allow visits?
Paulene
-
Hi Paulene
I went round Hurts about 15 months ago and was amazed. They open up during the heritage weekend which I think is late summer. I bought a botany wool fine shawl made to commemorate William Lee. I cannot believe the way they make the shawls in this age and pin them out as they did 150 - 200 years ago. If you haven't been its well worth a visit.
Jane
-
Keith
Did you see my post about Ruddington Framwork Knitters Museum? Its in Nottinghamshire but will give you a huge insight as I put loads of photos together. The links are
http://photobucket.com/albums/y277/swanjane/Ruddington%20Framework%20Knitters%20Museum/
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,62211.0.html
Jane
-
Hi again, Everyone,
Am presently ploughing through - and thoroughly enjoying, by the way - John WESLEY's journals. In the fourth and final volume, his entry for Wed 18th June 1777 reads:
"I preached at Nottingham, to a serious, loving congregation. There is something in the people of this town, which I cannot but much approve of; although most of our society are of the lower class, chiefly employed in the stocking-manufacture, yet there is generally an uncommon gentleness and sweetness in their temper, and something of elegance in their behaviour, which, when added to solid, vital religion, make them an ornament to their profession."
What a nice tribute to our ancestors on this thread, and I wonder how many of ours were actually there to hear him preach that day.
And by "society" I imagine he meant the Methodist society in the Nottingham area, rather than society in England generally...
keith
-
Have just found this thread and was interested to read about the Cocker needle factory as my husbands Gt Gt grandmother was Fanny Cocker daughter of Robert Cocker and sister of Millicent i am looking for the death of Robert Cocker
Rita
-
Rita,
Very glad to hear that you discovered this wonderful thread! Had no idea that there were going to be so many fascinating contributions on here from various Rootschatters when I started it all that time ago.
I'll have a look again at my COCKER's and PM you presently (haven't looked at them for a while, I have to say)
Regards, keith
-
Hi Jane, Keith and everyone else I am back living in England in the middle of the FWK country- Coalville and Whitwick. I was searching over some documents for my son-in-law who is involved with some woods where we found the remains of an old farm house. Itraced it back to 1861 Census when it was occupied by an FWK family. I also found that my g.grandparents were parttime FWK ers in Mansfield.
Best wishes to all.
Gerald
-
Hi Gerald,
Was the farmhouse in Leicestershire?
I know my FWK family were in Nottingham in the 1750s, and maybe as early as 1690, but not sure if they were in Nottingham earlier than that.
I was told that many of the early FWKs were related, and to look for family connections, and marriages.
Just wish I could untangle the 1756 parentage problem.
All good fun!
Paulene :)
-
Hello, I was going through the 1881 census for some of my family in Belgrave, Leicestershire and it states they are Framework Knitters;-
Cornelius Smith 67 b. Belgrave Framework Knitter lived at "The Green", Belgrave. His daughter Clara was a Fancy Hosiery Hand apparently!! As you go along the road the all seem to be Framework Knitters.
Do any of you have any pictures of the Belgrave Framework Knitters?
-
Hi,
I don't personally know where there are any photographs, but I wondered if it might be worth contacting Belgrave Hall Museum, or the Wigston Framework Knitter's Museum; just in case they have any.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06qs/
Good luck - let us know if you find any!
Kind regards,
Paulene :)
-
You probably already have this; but just in case you don't:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06qt/
Paulene :)
-
Hi all, first time Post :D
just like you to know I have found a FWN.
Name: Mary Hubbard
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1822
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Thurmaston, Leicestershire, England
Civil parish: North Thurmaston
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England
Regards
:D
-
Bond1,
Welcome to Rootschat! And I think you'll find that it's an excellent friendly site. This particular thread has been amazing...
Very best wishes, keith
-
Hello, My name is Di and I have just found your site as I'm trying to find more information about family members.
I live in New South Wales, Australia.
Some of my family members came to Australia in about 1844.
One of my uncles was born in 1908 and as a boy of 10 yrs, went to work with his father clearing land for farming (He was given an axe for Christmas). Later, he helped his father build a house with slab walls,a bark roof and bags hung inside for walls - the floor was earth. They lived on native animals that they shot in the bush and rabbits which they also used as skins for blankets etc. And this life was better than the life that earlier family members left behind in England.
I've found it very interesting reading the information here as it gives me an insight into the lives of some of our family, who were knitters and coal miners.
The family I am trying to trace is Worth and the family lived in Bagworth, (my information has them there between 1605 and about 1639).
But the family is also listed in Stanton, Thornton (1660 to 1741).
Markfield (1757 to 1873),two brothers died in 1780, could they have been caught up in the Luddite trouble in that year?
Cheers Di
-
Hello, I'm new to Rootschat and am interested in FWKs in Nottingham. My ancestor Sampson Hooley was a FWK in Nottingham in the 1820-30s. He went to France for a few years with his family and I wondered if anyone know whether it could be connected with his work. Did FWKs travel? Family 'legend' has is that he went to St Etienne which is close to Lyon, the silk weavers city.
Any thoughts would be most welcome.
-
Hi,
rather a delayed response I'm afraid: I'm new to this (fascinating) thread. It's very likely that your ancestor went to St Etienne. A lot of Nottingham FWKs emigrated or travelled regularly to France. However, the most popular destination was Calais, where an English enclave developed, centered on the lace industry. Nottinghamians were instrumental in mechanising the local manufacture of lace. Bonington (father of the artist), Webster and Clark are credited with smuggling the first Leavers machines into France in about 1816.
There is a large and modern lace museum in Calais ('Cité de Dentelle'), with working Leavers machines, and some Nottingham memorabilia (eg brass plates from Jardine lace machines).
Can't help you on St Etienne specifically I'm afraid, but their local museum will be able to help you.
-
Welcome to Rootschat,
Mithral, Hoolley and Antoine, (apologies for the delay with the greetings, but haven't been on here for some time)
Seems ages ago since I tentatively started this thread, but it really has been an amazing gathering together of fascinating details and relevant links...
Your last comments, Antoine, are particularly interesting!
Regards, keith
-
Thanks Antoine, I didn't know about the Calais museum. Do you (or anyone) know of a similar one in St Etienne? I understood, mainly from the FWK museum in Ruddington, Notts that they were a poor lot, it just seems very interesting that he and his family would up sticks from Nottingham to go all the way to St Etienne. They had two more children there, one being my great grandmother, but alas, on the census she is recorded as being born in France!
-
There is certainly an industrial museum in St Etienne, which has a textiles section. I can't say whether it would have anything of relevance to your particular interest. I suggest you get in touch with them (details will be available on the web, I'm sure). In my experience of contacting museums, you will either get a very helpful response, or no reply whatsoever...
-
Not only Notts lacehands went to Calais. I have someone in my tree - George Windram - who was a lacerunner in Leicester,and spent some years working in Calais.
In 1846 there was an parliamentary enquiry into electoral fraud in Leicester; and George went back to Calais,allegedly to avoid being called to give evidence to the enquiry committee!
You can read more about this here:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0aql/
you will need to page back to read the full enquiry and it doesn't tell you much about lacemaking or FWK, but several FWK were called to give evidence and it confirms the Leic-Calais link.
I am coming v late to this thread and haven't read it all - is there a link here to the enquiries of 1819 and 1844 on conditions of the FWK trade? If not, I'll post some.
-
Fascinating stuff !
I would appreciate it if you would post the links to the enquiries of 1819 and 1844.
-
The 1819 report into the FWK petition:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0aqx/
Luddite writings of the time:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0aqy/
Can't find a digestible link atm for the 1845 report (it's not a digestible report!) but here's a good extract fromit, from the Barrow on Soar village website:
http://www.leicestershirevillages.com/barrowuponsoar/frameworkknittersreportofthecomm.html
-
I have been absent from the FWK chat for some time as I have been engaged on a Distance Learning Degree with the University of Leicester. I am now living in NW Leicestershire and belong to the Whitwick Historical Society. FWK workersWhitwick were interviewed by the Royal Commisioners whose reports we have in the library. At present I am investigating the standards of living (or existence) of working class in the East Midlands.
-
I am new to RootsChat and was just having a look round the site when I came across this thread. The museum in my hometown, Hinckley, Leicestershire is the place to go if you want to see a framework knitters cottage, you can even have a go on a frame! Have a look on their website. It is a small museum, it is closed in the winter and reopens at easter. Parking nearby at brittania centre car park. Museum info:-
The Secretary
Hinckley and District Museum
Framework Knitters` Cottages, Lower Bond Street
Hinckley
Leicestershire
LE10 1QU
Tel: 01455 251218 (open days only) from Easter.
Email: hinckleymuseum@hotmail.co.uk
Further information on the thisisleicestershire site
-
Hi, Lollster, and welcome to Rootschat!
Sorry that it's taken me a week to acknowledge your really interesting and useful post. As you can see, this has been a most productive and exciting thread. I must get up to Hinckley myself in the very near future and have a look (and go on a frame!) for myself
Very best wishes, keith
-
Hi Keith,
Glad you found my post useful, like many places Hinckley has lost a lot of its old buildings, the remains of the workhouse will be lost soon to make way for an extention to the college, I dont think a lot of people in the area realise what this building started life as!
The large building opposite the museum was one of the largest hosiery factories in the area and is the place were my mum and dad both worked and met each other so it is part of my family history.
Hope you get to visit and enjoy a little of my home town.
Regards,
Lorraine
-
I came across this post by accident, whilst looking for something about Framesmiths (my ggf being one). It was interesting to see that the apprenticeship indentures seemed to have changed so little – My ggf was apprenticed as a watchmaker in Nottingham on valentines day 1876 and the terms of his indenture are practically the same as the 1726 FWK indenture posted on here.
A further point I noted with that indenture was that it was 1726 when Charles Pawson apprenticed himself to Christopher Strutt. Is it a coincidence that in 1729 was born Jedediah Strutt, the man who invented the first major change to Lee's stocking frame by the addition of the apparatus for manufacturing the Derby rib?
Another interesting thing that this thread shows is how there was a continuous movement of stockingers over the centuries, as economic migrants to large towns or other countries, many of them becoming leaders of the trade and opening up new markets where they established themselves or used their skills to benefit in other allied industries such as the Lace trade.
Additionally, they also formed close knit ( ::)) communities and intermarriages took place between families who worked in the same trades. This I would imagine being of a consequence of their working in what later came to be attributed as ghetto conditions.(especially in Nottingham in the 1830's)
Well done Keith for starting this thread.
Phil
-
Hi everyone
I've been away from the list for a while but have just been reading through the posts and noticed Hurts Lace Factory. I will be going for a tour round there on Saturday with the Nottingham Civic Society so they still do tours. Perhaps those of you who want to go might organise a group and approach them? I'm really excited now, can't wait to see the FWK machines.
-
... or I can ask for you?
-
Greetings all!
Wonderful thread I stumbled upon looking for more information on Framework Knitters since both my 3rd Great Grandfather and 4th Great Grandfather as well as my 4th Great Grandmother were all Framework Knitters in the 1841 and 1851 census records for Asfordby, Leicestershire in the Melton District. Asfordby is not far from Barrow either which seemed to be a hub for Framework Knitters, but I noticed a strange entry in the 1851 Census next to my 4th Grt Grandmothers name. The men were listed as Framework Knitters while her entry just said Frame Lab? I'm not sure what the second word was, it may have been an abbreviation I could not read properly ... it looked like Lab which I assumed was Labour? Does anyone have any idea on this term 'Frame lab?'.
In any case I would love to talk to others who have a history and tradition of Framework Knitting in their family lines in the Leicestershire region. I need to go back and read this thread in its entirety also ... am I to understand there is a book about Framework Knitters also? 8)
P.S My FWK ancestors surname is 'LARGE' ... for those with genealogy in mind.
Cheers, Simon.
-
Hi Simon,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
I need to go back and read this thread in its entirety also ...
Tip: click on "print" to show the entire topic in one browser tab/window
Help Pages (http://www.rootschat.com/help/) » Index to Help-Pages (http://www.rootschat.com/help/help_index.php) » Long topics (http://www.rootschat.com/help/faqs.php#long_topics)
And Hi to all with FWK families,
would a "Special Interests" database be any help ??
See Topic: DBSIG: Database for Special Interest Groups
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,625141.0.html
and add your views there.
Bob
-
The fact that many went over to France is interesting. There is a superb Lace Museum in Calais which details the lace workers who went there too.
-
Hi Simon,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
I need to go back and read this thread in its entirety also ...
Tip: click on "print" to show the entire topic in one browser tab/window
Help Pages (http://www.rootschat.com/help/) » Index to Help-Pages (http://www.rootschat.com/help/help_index.php) » Long topics (http://www.rootschat.com/help/faqs.php#long_topics)
And Hi to all with FWK families,
would a "Special Interests" database be any help ??
See Topic: DBSIG: Database for Special Interest Groups
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,625141.0.html
and add your views there.
Bob
Thanks for the welcome Bob ... I think your suggestion of a special interests zone is a great idea given the traffic here. I also meant to add that my LARGE family members eventually moved to Aston Birmingham by the 1870's where the household trade turned to Blacksmithing. The other side of the family - (CLARKE, WHITTLE) - who were originally from Mountsorrell/Barrow Upon Soar, moved to Rowley Regis where the males were engaged in Stone Cutting/Squaring and the women in that famous trade of NAIL MAKING. What amazing and tough lives they lived!
Best, Simon.