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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Worcestershire => England => Worcestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: kd on Wednesday 18 May 05 16:59 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help?
Looking for MARIA MOBBERLEY born about 1819 LYE WEST WORCESTERSHIRE.
I know she married JOHN KNOWLES in 1843 at ST. MARYS. OLD SWINFORD.
I am trying to find her parents.
Thank you
Kaye
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Any help?
1861
Maria Gittens abt 1843 Lye, Worcestershire, England Visitor Lye Worcestershire
Elizabeth Mobberley abt 1859 Lye, Worcestershire, England Daughter Lye Worcestershire
John Mobberley abt 1826 Lye, Worcestershire, England Head Lye Worcestershire
Maria Mobberley abt 1838 Lye, Worcestershire, England Wife Lye Worcestershire
Mary Ann Mobberley abt 1858 Lye, Worcestershire, England Daughter Lye Worcestershire
Folio:16
schedule number:186
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Hi,
Thanks for the reply.
There seems to be 19 years difference, the Maria i am looking for was born cicra 1819.
Thank you for looking anyway.
regards
Kaye
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i have your maria in 1861 if that helps but no luck so far on her parents sorry
John Knowles abt 1820 Old Swinford, Worcestershire, England Head Cradley Worcestershire
Maria Knowles abt 1819 East Indies Wife Cradley Worcestershire
Richard Knowles abt 1840 Old Swinford, Worcestershire, England Son Cradley Worcestershire
William Knowles abt 1851 Old Swinford, Worcestershire, England Son Cradley Worcestershire
the only mobberleys still in west lye are these -
Eliza Mobberley abt 1812 Lye, Worcestershire, England Wife Stourbridge Worcestershire
Eliza Mobberley abt 1853 Lye, Worcestershire, England Daughter Stourbridge Worcestershire
Hy Mobberley abt 1847 Lye, Worcestershire, England Son Stourbridge Worcestershire
Richard Mobberley abt 1808 Lye, Worcestershire, England Head Stourbridge Worcestershire
Thomas Mobberley abt 1851 Lye, Worcestershire, England Son Stourbridge Worcestershire
richard may be a brother for maria???
or maybe this william poss being of the right age for her father???
Catherine Jones abt 1836 Liverpool Servant Lye Worcestershire
Ann Mobberley abt 1794 Lye, Worcestershire, England Wife Lye Worcestershire
Samuel Mobberley abt 1820 Lye, Worcestershire, England Son Lye Worcestershire
William Mobberley abt 1796 Lye, Worcestershire, England Head Lye Worcestershire
hope this helps some
regards
alli
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Hi Alli
Thank you for finding Maria for me.
I now have her marriage cert and indeed William was her father after some searching i have found her mother (Eleanor).
Eleanor was also from THe East Indies.
Maria and John had at least 3 children Caleb, Joiles and William I did not know of a Richard.
Thanks for taking the time to look.
Regards
Kaye
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Hi there,
I'm searching for Joseph Mobberley born Lye Waste Bank 1806. Married to Mary Green. I have been searching for some years but have never found his birth records. I was wondering if this could be the son of William and Bridget Stafford born in India in 1813, half brother to Maria. I am aware that sometimes birth dates were remembered or recorded wrongly so this could be the case. I am really struggling to find this Joseph, I only have the 1871 census for him.
If anyone could help or shed any light I'd be very grateful. Also I have a newspaper clipping of Maria Knowles and her brother Mobberley, in Lye in a knife incident 1855 if anyone is interested.
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Hello
Not sure how much help I can be.
I am related to the William Mobberley who married Bridget Stafford and was in India.
William was born c 1785 and had 2 children with his first wife Bridget -William 1809 and Joseph 1813.
He then went on to marry a widow Eleanor Walters 1791-1863 and have another 10 children.
William Mobberley joined up in 1799 and returned home to Lye 1819
He had another son Joseph in 1833 with his second wife Eleanor so I would be surprised if the older child lived.
Looking at your Joseph he was buried at Kidderminster 5th Nov 1871 age 66 years of Marlborough Row.
So does suggest 1805 for his birth
Like you I then get nowhere fast.
I'll have a think over the weekend and if I find anything I'll get back to you
Ciderdrinker
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Thank you so much :) Darn it I was hoping it was that Joseph as it would have also confirmed the Irish Great Grandmother that my Great Gran mentioned! I guess I'll be taking this mystery to my grave ::)
Thank you so much again for the speedy response :-)
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Hello Again
I've had a think over the weekend and I'd like to a bit more positive.
Thinking about it my Great Grandfather did have two families and named 2 sons John and George with both his partners.It's not impossible Joseph survived and then William and his new wife went on to have a second son Joseph.
The Mobberley family in Lye is basically one 'big ' family all descended from John Mobberley and Alice Seabright married 1624.
There are two main branches by 1800 .The brickmakers ,all brothers Samuel Foley Mobberley ,William Mobberley and Elizabeth Woolridge,Thomas and Elizabeth Round and Benjamin Mobberly and his 3 wives. Quite affluent and well documented and all buried in a big row of tombs together at St Marys Old Swinford.
Then there are the nailors.Edward and Elizabeth Holloway and his brothers Samuel and Joseph .
William and Eleanor from India are son and daughter in law of Edward and Elizabeth and it is with them and their siblings you should concentrate.(I've discarded Joseph born 1818 s of Thomas and Elizabeth because although he disappears after 1851 census ,the family go to Australia).
That leaves us with the other Joseph Mobberley on the 1841 census.
Lye Waste Bank
Elizabeth Mash 55 nailor y
John Mash 15 y
---------------/
Joseph Mobberly 25 nailor y
----------------------//
John Mobberley 30 nailor
Mary 30y
Jane 11
Henry 8
Betsy 5
Enocj 4
David 3
Lucy 6months.
Elizabeth Mobberley married James Mash 22.6.1823 Old Swinford .wit William and Eleanor Mobberley.
She is William's younger sister born 1788.
She marries late probably because she had 2 illegitimate children -Mary 1809 and Nathaniel 1815.
No sign of the family after 1843 when son John gets 3 months for larcenary at Worcester Asizies.
On the other side is her nephew John.John on his second marriage is noted as the illegitimate son of Lucy Mobberley.(12 Dec 1848 Old Swinford marriage to Maria Woodhall).
Lucy 1788-22 Feb 1837 is Elizabeth's sister.She married Francis Mannerley at Halesowen 24 Aug 1816.
No sign of a baptism for John around 1809.
She has a further 3 children with Francis Mannerley - Elizabeth and Mary 1817 and Obadiah 1835-1827.
I think this Joseph Mobberley age 25 -30 years is probably your man. Somehow he is connected to the children of Edward and Elizabeth Mobberley .
There are 3 possibilities -the son Joseph born in India 1813
An illegitimate child of Elizabeth Mobberley
An illegitimate child of Lucy Mobberley
Either way I think Edward Mobberley nailor 1748-1821 and Elizabeth Holloway died 1828 are probably his grandparents .
Does that help at all?
What do you think ? Like you I'm struggling to see possibilities.
There is a newspaper report of a Joseph Mobberly age 27 nailor at Kidderminster accused of stealing John Lea's fowl. in 1843 in the Worcester journal .Could that be him a little older?
Ciderdrinker
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Wow, you are amazing, thank you so much for your help.
Yes I've saved that 1841 census with John, Mary and Joseph. I never like to assume but there's always some degree of speculation involved in order to find the answer. Over the weekend I looked through the whole of the Old Swinford parish register, sadly most of the pages aren't scanned fully and a lot of it is damaged. I also went through the whole of the Waste Bank census in 1841 and 1851 and couldn't find any other Joseph Mobberley.
My Mobberley line are very elusive. Mary Mobberley b1858, my 2nd G*Grandmother, daughter of Joseph and I assume Mary Green, on some census forms is listed as Mary Bird (wife of Thomas Bird) and then suddenly she's just Mobberley. I assume they weren't actually married.
I have collected up quite a few news paper records of the Mobberleys from Lye. Quite a bunch!!
Thank you so so much for all your help, you've given me plenty to look into :-)
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After reconsidering a marriage record I have for Joseph Mabley and Mary Green (m1864 Kidderminster) I can now say that Joseph's father is Joseph Mobberley, potentially Joseph (b1790) son of Edward Mobberley and Elizabeth Holloway.
However I can't find any records for Joseph (b1790) other than his birth record. I'd like to verify that he had a son Joseph at least!
I'd be so grateful if anyone has any information on Joseph Mobberley b1790? It's driving my crazy!! I've looked through so many parish registers in Worcestershire but have found nothing! :-\
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Hi
Sorry but I have nothing too.
He's not the Joseph Mobberley who married Priscilla Wheatley 1818 in Kentucky but I've not found a trace.
Either he died very early on or perhaps he signed up for the Army and died overseas.
Nothing anywhere.
Ciderdrinker
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Thank you Ciderdrinker :-)
Yes I was considering Priscilla Wheatley but really didn't think he was the right Joseph. When I'm next in Worcester I'll take a trip to the Hive to see if I can find any information. I'll let you know if I find anything. Thanks for your help :-)
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Hi there, I found this topic when I was Googling some of my own information on Old Swinford, the Lye Waste and the Mobberleys. Elizabeth Mobberley and John Marsh were my 3rd and 4th great grandparents through John's daughter Elizabeth Margaret Marsh with his first wife in Tasmania, Katharina Holzwarth. Katharina came over with her parents and a small group of migrants from Wurttemberg in Germany, but died shortly before her 25th birthday from some sort of chest infection.
John and his mother were both transported to Tasmania in spite of Elizabeth's advancing age and upon their freedom settled in the town of Ouse. John died in 1877 from head injuries falling from his horse. Elizabeth tragically burned to death in 1859 after her clothes ignited, possibly after falling asleep too close to an open fire.
I've managed to find what I think are five children Elizabeth had altogether. There was Mary Mobberley in 1809 who I think was the infant that died later that year. There was Nathaniel Mobberley in 1815 who seemed to vanish. There was Sarah Mobberley who I haven't spotted on the 1841 census. Then after marrying James Marsh/Mash, there was John of course in 1824 and finally Mary Ann Marsh in 1828. I think Mary Ann matches the 6 year old Mary Ann that died in 1834.
The confusing part is the convict indents for John and Elizabeth, specifically the second pages that list family:
https://libraries.tas.gov.au/Digital/CON15-1-3/CON15-1-3P32
https://libraries.tas.gov.au/Digital/CON14-1-22/CON14-1-22P178
Elizabeth lists herself as a widow, but I can't seem to find any record of James' death. Presumably it was before the 41 census. She lists three (living) children, and mentions two of her siblings back in her native place, Hannah and William. William and his second wife Eleanor seem to also be the two witnesses listed in her wedding to James.
John's indent lists his mother Elizabeth, a brother Joseph and a sister Elizabeth. Sure enough there's the Joseph Mobberley in the household in the 1841 census. This Joseph also matches the age of Nathaniel Mobberley, leading me to believe that they're possibly the same person? A lot of the family and John's children have first and middle names that aren't always listed in many records. Quite a few names that are somewhat more unusual, too. Nathaniel, Anak, Heri, etc. Anak was used among several family members, as recently as one of my grandfather's brothers.
Many of John's children seem to be named after his extended family. There's Mary Ann, Elizabeth Margaret, John Richard James, Anak William Nathaniel, Mary Lucy Eleanor, Maria Eliza and Heri Joseph.
Elizabeth's UK prisoner record also lists two aliases, Ann Marsh and Mary Mobberley. Again, possibly her middle names?
I can't find any records for the daughter Elizabeth Mobberley, but there a Sarah Mobberley in Lye Waste that married a miner called Samuel Bingham in 1846, and she lists her reputed father to be a Benjamin Marsh. Samuel I believe was the same Samuel that died the very next year in a work accident, crushed by falling rocks according to the papers. From there, I can't find anything more about Sarah.
So the short version: maybe John's siblings were Nathaniel Joseph Mobberley and Elizabeth Sarah Mobberley?
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Hello Ealagh
Welcome to Rootschat.
Yes I agree it looks like Elizabeth Mobberley b c 1785 is the daughter of Edward and Elizabeth Mobberley bapt 20.6.1788 with her sister Lucy at Old Swinford.
I'm descended from her brother William bapt 3.5.1782 who was born while his father was at Royston Middlesex.He and his wife Eleanor are the ones witnessing her marriage.
These Mobberleys were on the poor side of the family ,unlike their richer brickmaker cousins who owned their own businesses.Most of them were nailors living on The Waste in mud huts up on the hill overlooking Lye.
As I discussed with METaunt his Joseph born 1816 ,could have been the son of Elizabeth or her sister Lucy ,and as you know there is no sign of a Nathaniel so they could be the same man as you suggest. And again the two Marys died as a baby and a 5 year old. Sarah Mobberley with a father Benjamin Marsh seems to be too much of a coincidence and must be the missing Elizabeth.
You seem to have been very thorough in your research and I can't see anything I can add. It is nice to know what happened to Elizabeth and interesting to hear of the Australian side of things.
My tree is on Ancestry if you have it .It goes back to John Mobberley and Alice Seabright.
Ciderdrinker
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Hi again,
I've just caught up on the last couple of messages. There has been some great research, the Mobberleys are definitely a difficult family to research.
Just based on the marriage certificate I have, I am still of the opinion that my Joseph Mobberley's, b1806-1816 (it varies), father was Joseph Mobberley b1790 to Edward and Elizabeth Holloway. Of course I have no way of actually verifying this until I find Josephs birth records, which I think sadly I'll never find, unless of course his name was different when baptised. But I can find no records of Joseph Mobberley b1790 either except his baptism.
I'd be so grateful if anyone could give me their opinion on this other conundrum;
Joseph Mobberley b1806-1816 had a daughter named Mary, who I am a direct descendant of. She was born 1857 +/- 3 years in Kidderminster (according to later census records). But I can find absolutely no birth records for her at all, I've searched through whole parish registers and Bishops Transcripts in all Worcestershire areas connected with the family. Similarly through whole census records of areas connected but nothing.
Their first son Joseph was born in 1847 in Doldy, Worcester.
I have found a daughter Lucy Mawberley also born Doldy 1861 to Joseph and Mary. Joseph has the same occupation, which seems a likely match. But again absolutely nothing for a Lucy Mawberley (and all name variations) after this baptism record. No death or census records either.
Is it possible that Lucy is Mary? Could they have changed her name after baptism? D?o you think this is possible
5 years later they had another daughter called Lucy who died.
I can't find any census records for my Mobberley line pre 1871 except for the 1841, if that is my Joseph living with John and Elizabeth Mash/Marsh.
There are a few criminal records of Joseph being charged with vagrancy but somewhere in between 1841 and their first child Joseph born in Doldy, Worcester, Joseph met Mary Green.
Many thanks