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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: judy45 on Thursday 03 May 12 12:34 BST (UK)
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John Kerr (1819) and Isabella Callan (1820) are listed as parents on Isabella Kerr (1845) and Hugh Park (1844) marriage certificate - 7 July 1865. I've been looking for marriage information for John and Isabella (poss around 1840). Also parents of both - though I know early marriage records don't usually include parents. I've wondered about a link between Isabella Callan and Jane Callan Whyte. Any help gratefully received.
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Hi Judy45
Welcome to RootsChat :)
IGI have submitted entries for both Isabella's birth and also a brother John born 23 March 1845, like Isabella, also showing as born in New Cumnock.
Have you checked early census entries after the birth of Isabella to see what clues you can get?
There is this entry for example:
John Kerr 53, coal miner b. Sanquhar, Dumfries
James Kerr 23, son, coal miner b. Kirkcoonnel, Dumfries
Janet Kerr 20, daughter b. Kirkcoonnel, Dumfries
Elisabeth Kerr 14, daughter b. Durrisdeer, Dumfries
Thomas Kerr 10, son b. New Cumnock, AYR
Isabella Kerr 5, granddaughter b. New Cumnock, AYR
Jane Campbell 14, visitor
William Campbell 24, lodger
Address: Wellwood Row, Muirkirk, Ayrshire
Possible entry for Isabella living with her aunt Elizabeth in 1861:
Elizabeth Kerr 24, head, Muslin Sewer b. Durrisdeer, Dumfries
Isabella Kerr 13, niece, domestic servant b. New Cumnock
Address: Kirkgreen, Muirkirk
What occupation showed for Isabella's father John on her 1865 marriage entry? Did parents show as deceased at the time of her marriage? Do you know who were the witnesses to the 1865 marriage, any family names that you could work with?
Monica
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I think this is a possible 1841 census entry for this Kerr family. There looks to be a son John (although relationships are seldom given on the 1841 census):
John Kerr 44 coal miner b. Scotland
Jane Kerr 44
John Kerr 18
James Kerr 16
Janet Kerr 14
William Kerr 12
George Kerr 10
Elizabeth Kerr 5
Thomas Kerr 10 Months
Address: Greave Hill, New Cumnock
Monica
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If this is the correct entry for Elizabeth's birth, the mother looks to be a Jane ANDERSON:
Elizabeth KERR b. 25 Aug. 1835 in Durrisdeer, Dumfries
A few other entries show for possible other children to parents John Kerr and Jane Anderson - not a full list though on IGI, here www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
Monica
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Mant thanks Monica!
On marriage cert for Hugh Park and Isabella Kerr we have
Father -John Kerr - Coal miner deceased
Mother - Isabella Kerr MS Callan
His father - George Park Coal miner
His mother - Mary Park MS Murdoch deceased
Witnesses - George Park (poss Hugh's brother) and (I think) Matthew Anderson - I've 2 possibilities here on my tree just need to find a connection!
I have many Park's and Anderson's on my tree - but I think the link might be through a Samson! By the way I can't find Isabella Kerr's birth cert anywhere! I've checked IGI and SP ! Still no luck with the Callan link!
Once again many thanks!
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I couldn't see anything for Isabella's birth or christening either but brother John's entry does seem to show on SP (which is likely the source of the specific date we had for his birth from 1845).
Matthew Anderson, the witness at the wedding might be who I think Isabella's paternal grandfather was living with at the time of the 1861 census:
Matthew Anderson 29, coal miner b. Muirkirk
Janet Anderson 35
Margaret Anderson 6
Robert Anderson 4
John Anderson 3
Jane Anderson 1
Janet Hamilton 13
John Kerr 64, boarder, coal miner b. Sanquhar, Dumfriesshire
Address: Wauk Mill, Muirkirk
The Anderson name/family maybe connected to his wife Jane Anderson's side?
Monica
PS: Callan also struggling with, except for pure guesses really without anything to firm up with at this stage.
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:-\ Wonder why Isabella Callan didn't show as deceased at the time of daughter's 1865 marriage?
Could she have remarried before 1851 and left young Isabella to be brought up by her husband's family I wonder?
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Hi! On Isabella Kerr Park's (Hugh Park's wife) death cert her parents are listed as John Kerr and Isabella Callan afterwards wife of James Young! Some progress!
I found a marriage cert for an Isabella Callan and James Young but she was only 27 in 1862! Isabella Kerr didn't work either! Ho hum! Will keep digging!
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Struggling to see much more on the Isabella Callan and Young link so far. Can't see a death that fits in Scotland, nor is IGI throwing up possible children for them so far in Scotland.
I had seen a birth: Joan Callan to an Isabella Callan on 14 NOV 1855 in New Cumnock. Magic year 1855 with all the extra info, but not sure whether it will connect to the right Isabella (but worth keeping in mind nevertheless). Now might make more sense though with that marriage entry you found.
What was the address for that Isabella on that 1862 marriage entry? James Young's occupation?
Monica
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Hi there!
The 1862 marriage cert is a bit difficult to read but I think James Young lived in Crosshill and was a ploughman. It looks like Isabella lived in Yonderton (!!) but I think that's Glasgow way!
John Callan - father is a grocer and comes from Durisdeer - mother was Mary Hunter
Thanks for your help will keep looking!
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Hi Judy,
There is no link between Isabella Callan and Jane Callan Whyte. They are from different Callan families. Also Isabella's parents, John Kerr & Isabella Callan were not married.
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Many thanks for that - at least that's one problem solved!
Judy
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I wonder if this could be part of the same family
I have a john McNight aged 24 married Elizabeth Campbell in New Cumnock in 1874
His parents were john McNight (draper deceased)and Isabella Young Callan
jim
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Hi, I've recently been researching Isabella Kerr and Isabella Callan as they were my x3 and x4 Grandmothers. This has been my findings ...
Isabella Kerr’s parents were John Kerr and Isabella Callan. The census indicate that Isabella Jr was born in New Cumnock. On her death cert her mother is documented as having married a James Young, Ploughman.
Unable to find a death cert or parish record for John Kerr. However in 1873 a man named John Kerr, coal miner, died aged 77 at Linkyburn (where Isabella and family were living in the 1871 census). The death is registered by “Hugh Park, Grandson” and this is probably Isabella’s grandfather (Hugh would in fact be Grandson in-law). John is named as the widow of Jane Anderson and Isabella and Hugh Park had named their first daughter Jane Anderson Park (1869-1938). (Their second born son was named John Kerr Park (1867-1942)). This John Kerr’s parents were Archibald Kerr, Farmer and Elizabeth Hyslop. The 1851 census indicates Isabella living with her grandfather John (who was born in Sanqhuar), in Muirkirk on Wellwood Row. There is no mention of her parents or Jane Anderson (indicating Jane had died, and proberly her father John was also deceased). Unsure why Isabella was living with her paternal grandfather as opposed to her mother and/or maternal grandparents who were still alive.
Parish records indicate that Isabella had an older brother, John born to John Kerr and Isabella Callan in New Cumnock in 1845 and this record indicates that he was illigtimate and thus Isabella too was probably illegitimate (no parish record available for her). Parish records would record an illegitimate person as “natural child” as opposed to “legal child” if the parents were married. There is a marriage of an Isabella Callan to a James Young, ploughman, in New Cumnock in 1862, although Isabella is aged at 27. She died in 1883, aged 52 at Gallowhill Farm, Maybole, making her old enough to be a young mother. In the 1841 census “Tibby” is aged at around 14, staying at Greave Hill. (This is not unusual for ages across documents to be inconsistent giving this Isabella birth dates of 1827 (via census), 1831 (via death cert) and 1835 (via marriage cert). However her parish record has her being baptised in 1826. She appears in the 1851 census as living as a servant in Ayr. Some of her (and other members of her family) have the surname recorded as Cullen (again not unusual for different spelling of names). Another fact clarifying that she is the mother of Isabella is that on Isabella’s Jrs death cert it states “afterwards wife of …” which has been the same as what has appeared on certificates of other illigtimate family members if their mothers married after they had been born. A newspaper article further indicates that Isabella Sr had another daughter, Mary Campbell who soliciters were trying to locate after the death of Isabella Srs last survivng sibling, Archibald (1824-1897). Isabella had 2 sisters who appeared to have married men with the same surname (McNally) so perhaps they were brothers.
Isabella Sr parents were John Callan (1800-1880), Grocer, and Mary Hunter (1803-1873). Both died at Pathhead, New Cumnock. having been born in Dumfrieshire. They married 1822 in Sanqhuar. John remarried to a Margaret Patrick in 1874 (his housekeeper).