RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: LaytonLily on Friday 11 May 12 20:24 BST (UK)
-
Can someone advise please how I can find confirmation of Frederick Dinsdale being transport to Australia in 1857, tried at Warwick court. Born about 1823 in Worcester and married Mary Ann Davis.
-
I am a little unsure if your Frederick would have been a transported convict.
Most transportation ended in 1859 but continued for a few more years in Western Australia. There is no mention of a death of a Frederick Dinsdale in WA BDM's.
Neil
-
I have found two Frederick Dinsdales in 1851 census both born Worcester one in 1824 a Solicitor and one born 1823 a Tailor married to a Mary a dressmaker with a daughter Rosina 1 year old.
Neither of these Fredericks appear in any other census after.
Is either of these yours?
Neil
-
Your Frederick only got 4 years for fraud so very unlucky/unlikely to be transported. However he may have left England for other parts.
Neil
-
Thank you for these respones. He was the Frdk Dinsdale who was shown as tailor on 1851 census. I found 3 Criminal records entries for him on Ancestry - 1850 3 months imprisonment for larceny / 1852 Larceny and in transportation column 7 years / but in 1857 there appears to be a tick in the transportation column and 4 years indicated for penal servitude.
I couldn't find him or Mary Ann in 1861 census but in 1871 Mary Ann was shown as widow.
I am attaching a copy of the entry for 1857 (I hope it comes through OK) and could you also transcribe the words for his crime please.
Many thanks for any help.
-
Here is the link to his record from Warwickshire.
http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/Web/corporate/pages.nsf/Links/3C3BECFC9AF8FC7B80256E7E0056B9FE
My thoughts are that he must have died over there.
Neil
-
Well that is a very interesting website I didn't know about ! so thank you for that link.
I don't think the page I referred to came through so will send it again.
Why do you think it shows he was given 7 years in 1852 but then in court again in 1857 ? I didn't think they would let them out before the end of their sentence at that time. If he had Penal Servitude, was that just other words for him going to jail ? It doesn't seem to indicate on the record link you sent to me, that he was transported.
Was it likely anyone came back from Australia when their sentence finished ? Did the Government pay for them to come back or did they have to find the money ?
-
Hullo again,
I don't know anything about his term in 1852, but you did have a working Justice system. He could have had had his sentence set aside, because his accuser may have proved a liar on appeal, he could have been released for being a model prisoner?
I don't think he was transported. He could have been just deposited on one of the hundreds of Prison Hulks (Ships/Barges) that never left port. Penal servitude means just that, sent to prison.
Some did make their way back in the later days of Transportation. They had to have a certificate of freedom, not just a ticket of leave. None went back prior to 1840 as far as I know. No Government paid their passage back unless they were proved to be wrongly accused. Some worked as crew and were able to get back that way, others gained wealth paid their own way and some returned several times. MOST did not and no Lifers were sent back as far as I am aware.
Hope you are able to find his death somewhere in England.
Neil ;)
-
Did they have children, Henry, Mary A and James?
Jamjar
-
He doesn't appear on any census checks done so far Jamjar. So outside of the Rosina I found on the 1851 I dont believe Leytonlily knows?
Have you found a possible?
Neil
-
I had found a Mary A who was a tailoress on the '61. No husband listed, but married. She was born in Suffolk. Looking at the '71 this person may the wife of a seaman, but the birthplace is now Norfolk.
Jamjar
-
As we all know This Frederick could have just been absent on the night of the 1861 census and came home the next day?
She is not listed at the top of a page is she?
Neil
-
If you are sure of his date and place of birth, and think he may have been in gaol for the 1861 census, I believe you can search for him by his initials, in the gaols, with age and place of birth being your confirmatory information.
As Neil says, transportation to Australia was not usually result of a 4 year sentence - they all seem to have sentences of 7 yrs / 14 years/ life.
Dawn M
-
No I haven't found any indication of other children other than Rosina. Haven't been able to find the the family on the 1861 census.
Were you able to read the criminal record I attached ? I think the charge in 1857 was something like : Forgery on deed for receiving (looks like £34 but cannot be sure) upon the death of (I thought it said 'mother' but looking again, I think it might say 'another').
On the criminal record for 1852 the charge is : Larceny after a previous conviction. And there is written 'seven years' in the Transportation column.
But if he was transported in 1852, what was he doing being convicted again in 1857 ?! Of course, they could be two different Frederick Dinsdales. It doesn't give indication of where born or any other identification. The first conviction in 1850 was in the Worcester Court (where he was born and lived) and the following two at Warwick.
-
I cannot see a Frederick DINSDALE on any of the online Australian convict records.
Judith
-
Thank you all for your contributions.
Actually Frederick wasn't born in Worcester as I previous said, but on the 1851 census it gives Essex as his place of birth. Mary Ann was born in Worcester or at least Worcestershire.
"As Neil says, transportation to Australia was ... sentences of 7 yrs "
As you will see, the conviction in 1852 was for 7 years and in the Transportation column.
I have been doing this investigation into the Dinsdale ancestors for a 'cousin' who has never done any FH research and I said I would see what I could find to get her started, and give her the helpful / suitable websites for her to use. I think I will pass this on to her now for her to follow up !