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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: poirot on Friday 11 May 12 21:38 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for information on Thomas Rathbourne Waters who was born in Kilsby< Northamptonshire in 1838.
He was last recorded in the UK in 1861.
In 1885 he married his 2nd wife Annie Christina Frank in Nelson NZ.
His original occupation was a Wheelwright/Carpenter but he became the Battery Manager for United Alpine Quartz Co, Ltd in NZ
Could someone find him on a NZ census and his date of death please?
Regards,
Poirot
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Hi Poirot,
Will get our Moderator to move this to the active board where it will be seen ...
Cheers
KHP
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Hello,
These may be his children
1887/15353 Waters Allan Francis / Christina/ Thomas
1889/5622 Waters Felix Herber/t Annie Christina/ Thomas Raeburn
1891/5289 Waters Ivy Lillian / Christina /Thomas Raeburn
Cheers Janette
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Hi Poirot,
unfortunately we don't have NZ census,someone may be able to find him on an electoral roll
Cheers Janette
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Hello,
These may be his children
1887/15353 Waters Allan Francis / Christina/ Thomas
If that is the case, then here is his burial - 3 Sept 1970 aged 83
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0mbx/
My eyes aren't picking up anything for Thomas.
Cheers
KHP
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He didn't use the Rathbourne for his marriage
1885/491 Annie Christina Frank to Thomas Waters
Cheers Janette
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There is a Christina Waters buried at Oamaru Cemetery, died in 1920 aged 81. Wonder if this is her?
Cheers
KHP
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You don't happen to have the birth year of Annie Christina? Just makes it easier to match the birth year with age of death. Perhaps she went by her 2nd name?
Cheers
KHP
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Hi KHP,it looks like Christina was the name used for a coyple of the births,
Cheers Janette
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There is no Thomas buried with her only a Henry and a John.
Cheers
KHP
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Thank you so much for your replies.
The information passed down to the family has Annie Christina as 46 at the time of her marriage. I have no certificate to prove this but the last child born was Laura in 1903 and Annie would have ben 64!!
Some of those children are on our tree but I don't recognise all the names.
You are really unlucky not to have census information as they tell us so much in the UK.
Is there any way I can view the marriage you found please?
Poirot
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If you have a sub to A$y you will see Annie Christina Waters in the 1896 NZ Electoral Rolls for Nelson, living at Brook Street. No Thomas.
Cheers
KHP
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Is there any way I can view the marriage you found please?
Poirot
Unfortunately marriages aren't able to be viewed on line, but you can order a marriage printout, which is the cheaper option.
If you put Waters in the Grooms name, and enter in the dates 01/01/1885 and 31/12/1885 you will see where you can order it.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cz3/
Cheers
KHP
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Thank you so much for your replies.
Is there any way I can view the marriage you found please?
Poirot
Yes, the link below
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cz3/
Just enter Waters into the Grooms names and for the dates enter 01/01/1885 to 31/12/1885. If you wish to order, purchase the Printout, as it is the cheaper option and usually has more information on it.
Cheers
KHP
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The information passed down to the family has Annie Christina as 46 at the time of her marriage. I have no certificate to prove this but the last child born was Laura in 1903 and Annie would have ben 64!!
Hi poirot
It does appear that "Annie Christina FRANK" was born in New Zealand in or around, 1862.
NZ Births
1862 - FRANK - Anna Christina
[For births of this era, parents names are not shown on the NZ BDM online birth index. ]
Our PapersPast website also has this birth notification :
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Nelson Evening Mail" - 4 December 1885 - page 2
WATERS - at the residence of Mrs FRANK, Brook Street, the wife of Mr Thomas WATERS, a daughter.
And, the daughter's birth registration in the new year (1886).
1886 - WATERS - Mabel Gertrude
Parents: Annie Christina & Thomas Blackburn Allen WATERS
see next >>
~ Lu
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And it appears also, that Annie Christina (w/o of Thomas WATERS), remarried.
NZ Marriage
Annie Christina WATERS - Joseph HYDE -- 1898
[That only her (former) married name appears in the marriage index, suggests she was a widow. ]
Will have another search to see if I can locate a death for Thomas.
~ Lu
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Here is the death for Annie Christina (formerly WATERS) :
1944 - HYDE - Christina Anna - 82 years (bc 1862)
~ Lu
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Marriage of Thomas to Annie
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=TC18850115.2.7&srpos=1&e=-------10--1----0thomas+raeburn--
Ian C
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Christina Anna HYDE is buried at Karori Cemetery in Wellington. Info on the Karori Cemetery database, plus a couple of photos of the grave. Died 29 Sep 1944 by the look of it.
Ian C
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Joseph and Christina had at least one child.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0mc4/
Ian C
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Mmm ... Thomas WATERS (and his whereabouts) is proving a real mystery.
Just as an aside, there was a wonderful obituary (from a historical point of view) written for Captain Joseph HYDE (husb. of Christina Annie / Anna).
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Evening Post" - 9 September 1926 - page 10 - An Inkerman Survivor
... obit goes on to say that HYDE is survived by eight daughters (looks like 1st wife (Eliza) died 1897) ... and five step-children - who are presumably the children of Christina ?
Thomas WATERS ... only electoral listing I can see, is >
1890 - NELSON
WATERS - Thomas - Nelson - occ. labourer - residential qualification
:-\
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Hi again Poirot
Phew ! Quite a hunt looking for your Thomas. :D
But the following does sound like his death. :(
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Thames Star" - 2 April 1895 - News in a Nutshell
[precis ]
... news has been received in Nelson [NZ] of the death of Thomas WATERS, former Battery Manager, United Alpine Mine .... died of typhoid fever at Coolgardie [Western Australia] ... leaves a widow and children in Melbourne.
So terribly sad.
Will have a scout through Australian papers to see what can be found.
~ Lu
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Hi Poirot
Another child ...
Dorothea Mary WATERS
Date of Birth: 2 February 1894
Child of : Thomas Raeburn WATERS & Annie Christina FRANK
Birthplace: Tasmania, Australia
Reg'n. place: Strahan, Tasmania
Reg'n. # : 2544
~ Lu
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This is the only death registration I could find.
Australia Death Index
Thomas WATERS
Age: 54 Estimated y.o.b : abt. 1841
Year of Death: 1895 Death Place: Western Australia
Registration # 306
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[If he was living away from his immediate family, then the informant to his death may not have been in possession of all the facts - e.g. correct year of birth ? ]
~ Lu
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Mmm ... I've had a reasonable look through Australian newspapers, but found nothing relating to Thomas (Raeburn) WATERS. (Had hoped there might have been a death notice or some mention of his passing. ) :(
Here is the link to online Australian newspapers, if you'd like to look further.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home
Or maybe try the Australia board for extra help ... they have a greater array of resources.
~ Lu
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Hi
The child, Laura, was from the HYDE marriage. ;)
NZ Births
1899 - HYDE - Laura Frances
Parents: Annie Christina and Joseph HYDE
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Marriage
Laura Frances HYDE - Norman NELSON -- 1921
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Hi Poirot
Have just also spotted a couple of "trees" on An***try.
One for Thomas Radbourne WATERS, s/o Joseph and Sophia, with info for his first marriage. Notes that he emigrated to NZ 1864, doesn't record this second marriage, and states that his death was after 1903.
Another tree gives details of Annie Christina FRANK (should have found this earlier :D ) :
Has husband as "Thomas Raeburn WATERS" - and his birthplace as NZ or UK, c. 1846 ... parents names not shown. Children ?: Has birth of "Dorothy" in 1883 ?? ... and a "son" named Joseph b. 1889 the same year as Felix Herbert ???
Notes Annie Christina's 2nd marriage to Joseph HYDE.
Gives date of death "18 March 1895 at Southern Cross, Western Australia for Thomas Raeburn WATERS. " :
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* Any idea where the name RATHBOURNE or RADBOURNE, comes from ?
~ Lu
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* Any idea where the name RATHBOURNE or RADBOURNE, comes from ?
.... not that I doubt that Thomas Rathbourne /Radbourne or Raeburn are the same chap. :D
Maybe there's been a transcription error in a record, somewhere along the way ?
The IGI has this submitted entry.
Thomas Radborn WATERS
Christening: 1 April 1838, Northampton, ENG
Parents: Joseph and Sophia
[Radborn / Raeburn ... well, they've both got six letters ? ] ;D
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In 1871 Thomas' two daughters from his first marriage in England are with their grandmother Sophia WATERS in Kilsby. It would appear they both stayed in England.
Familysearch has Thomas Radborn WATERS chr 1 Apr 1838 at Kilsby, s/o Joseph & Sophia
Familysearch also has a Joseph WALTERS marriage to Sophia RADBONE, 30 Dec 1830, Barby, Northampton, which was Sophia's birthplace in 1871.
Ian C
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Mmm ... RADBONE (Sophia) is interesting, Ian.
Wonder who registered the births of the children ?
Two in NZ, 1889 & 1891 have father "T ... Raeburn"
... as does the birth reg. in AUS (1894).
:-\
~ Lu
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Thomas had a brother Joseph, born 1847, with him and his parents in 1851. His birth is registered as Joseph Radbone WATERS, Dec qtr 1846. In a later census he is Joseph R.
There is a marriage Jun qtr 1874, St George Hanover Square of a Joseph Radbourn WATERS to a Caroline SCHOLLENBERGER. His second marriage I think, first was 1867 to Annie CROOKE.
Joseph R was also a wheelwright.
Ian C
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WOW! This is amazing.
Thank you so much to all of you for your help.
I had not researched this line before and because I have a 30 day trial with Ancestry I started looking at the NZ connection and couldn't find anything.
Just looked up the marriage of Joseph ( Thomas's father) on familysearch and found he was married to Sophie Radbone. I realise now that I must have mis-spelt Thomas's second name and it should be Radbourne as one of his sons from his first marriage was given that as his second name.
I'm in the process of following up all the leads you have given me.
Thanks again,
Poirot
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Hi
This is really interesting. These are my ancestors in NZ. Annie was my great-grandmother. I know she had three daughters - Ivy, Dorothea and Mabel. Mabel was my grandmother. Mabel married James Caesar Gooch from Takaka, NZ and lived there. Sadly she passed away from breast cancer at the age of 44. I am from the Gooch descendants. My Dad's name was Edward Raeburn Gooch (known as Rae). My Dad lived with Annie (then Hyde, as she married for a second time and he was a widower with a grown family), Ivy and Dorothea in Wellington as he went to secondary school at St Patricks College, Wellington, after Mabel passed away. Annie's maiden name was Frank and they were one of the first German families to arrive in NZ in 1843 on the ship St Pauli. Apparently Jacob Frank (snr) was the first person to develop a vineyard in the Nelson area. I did not know anything about Annie's first husband so that has filled in some gaps for me and the reason for my Dad's name.
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Hello, I work for the BNZ Heritage team (Bank of New Zealand). Both Ivy and Dorothea Waters worked for the BNZ. We have employment records which we would be happy to share with you. Ivy Walters was in fact our first female employee. I would like to get in contact the relatives of Ivy Walters, I understand that she did not marry. Who would be the best person to contact? Please visit the BNZ Heritage website bnzheritage.co.nz. From there you can contact me directly using the 'contact' us page. we also have a story which mentions Ivy Waters, go to archive stories 'keeping the doors open' to view. Many thanks, T Connor.
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Welcome T.Connor :)
I do hope you get a response from the relatives of Ivy and Dorothea Waters. ;)
I had no idea of the existence of the BNZ Heritage site ... but from my sneek peek, it looks fascinating. I'll be going back to it for a more in-depth look.
I'm especially loving BNZ's art collection ... wonderful !!!
~ Lu
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Welcome T.Connor :)
I do hope you get a response from the relatives of Ivy and Dorothea Waters. ;)
I had no idea of the existence of the BNZ Heritage site ... but from my sneek peek, it looks fascinating. I'll be going back to it for a more in-depth look.
I'm especially loving BNZ's art collection ... wonderful !!!
~ Lu
Yes, I have been in touch with T Connor and she has sent me the service records and also told me they are about to launch a Scholarship/Grant in Ivy's name. Wow and so awesome! :)
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Awesome indeed, Maryanne ... that's wonderful news. :)
~ Lu
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As this query was posted so long ago I am sorry to say that the person I was helping with this query is no longer with us and the the rest of the family are sadly not at all interested in Family History which is such a shame after all the wonderful responses.
Thank you so much for your replies.
poirot