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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: bairn359 on Thursday 24 May 12 16:49 BST (UK)
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Hello, hope you can help, here's what i have..
Janet Robertson
Born circa 1819 at Killin by Loch Tay Perthshire
8 Nov 1845 Married William McArthur Dunblane Perthshire
1851 res Bothy? Alloa
1861, 1871, 1881 census res Alva
1891 census at Dalginross with sister Mary?
Died 1895 Alva Clackmannanshire
DC lists parents as Donald Robertson (a shepherd) and Margaret Stewart
Janet may have had an older sister Mary Robertson ( born circa 1814 Killin married 1849 Robert McGregor )
Would like to find out..
More about Donald Robertson and Margaret Stewart
Where is Janet on the 1841 census?
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Janet's birth
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0mrh/
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The only marriage I can see Donald Robertson in Killin is to a Margaret Cameron in 1808?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0mri/
Who notified Janet's death?
Links shrink - stretching page
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Children of Donald and Margaret
MARY ROBERTSON Christening: 22 DEC 1808 Killin, Perth, Scotland
MARGARET ROBERTSON Christening: 15 JUL 1814 Killin, Perth, Scotland
JANET ROBERTSON Christening: 10 NOV 1817 Killin, Perth, Scotland
JOHN ROBERTSON Christening: 10 AUG 1819 Killin, Perth, Scotland
DONALD ROBERTSON Christening: 09 MAY 1823 Killin, Perth, Scotland
There also a submitted record for a Peter
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What occupation was given on Janet's marriage cert?
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Sorry, can't help you with itinerant shepherds but we have some nice images of Dalginross where Mary might have lived.
You can't see it from the Glentilt road but have to climb up to the pl;ateau above.
http://www.borenich.co.uk/Photo_Gallery.html#Dalginross
Throth
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I dunno about the Margaret Cameron idea but Janet's mother-in-law's maidenname was also apparently Stewart so an error is a possibility.
I did see a possible 1806 marriage of a Donald Robertson of Pitaldonich and Margaret Stewart of Kinardochy, Dull recorded 11 Jun 1806 at Dull and 22 Jun at Blair Atholl that could be them? Killin is about 20 miles from Dull and Blair Atholl's even further.
Who notified Janet's death?
1895 death notified by son William McArthur of Alva
What occupation was given on Janet's marriage cert?
Marriage was 1845 (before Statutory Records) got info from IGI
Havn't found any occupation for Janet
Her husband William McArthur was a Brewery Labourer / Saw Miller / Woodcutter / Labourer
Her father Donald Robertson was a shepherd
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You can probably eliminate the Donald Robertson of Pitaldonich and Margaret Stewart of Kinardochy, Dull
Blair Atholl OPR, 1807
James, lawful son to Donald Robertson and Margaret Stewart, spouse, in Pitaldonuich, born 6th and baptised 8th March.
Dull OPR, 16th March 1820
Alexander, son to Donald Robertson and Margaret Stewart in Kinardochy was baptised.
1841 census for Foss, Dull.
Dwelling Name Age Occupation Birth-place
Kinardochy
Donald Robertson 60y farmer Perthshire
Margaret Robertson 52y Perthshire
Christian Robertson 25y Perthshire
1851 census, Christian's mother was still living at Kinardochy, but she was a widow and had reverted to her maiden name.
Dwelling Name Relation Status Age Occupation Birth-place
Kinardochy
Margaret Stewart Head widow 65y pauper Dull
Get back to us if contrary evidence emerges,
Throth
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OK so there's a query over the surname of Margaret Stewart or Cameron, but if Janet lived with a sister in later census had you considered checking her sister's death cert? Both would have had the same mother.
Mary married Robert McGregor not in Killin but in Comrie.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XY39-T98
I live 7 miles from Killin and about 19 from Comrie.
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On SP there are two deaths of Mary McGregor with mother's maiden name Cameron and three with a mothers maiden name Stewart before 1899 for the whole of Scotland. We need to narrow that down a bit.
Where did Mary McGregor live? Can you post the census data?
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Oh that's a good idea about Mary :)
1841 ?
1849 married Comrie
1851 age 32 Mary McGregor res Dalginross, Comrie
1861 age 47 Mary McGregor res Turnpike Road, Comrie
1871 ?
1881 ?
1891 age 81 Mary McGregor Dalginross, Comrie, Perthshire
Robert McGregor was born Balquhidder
In 1851 he's an agricultural labourer
In 1861 he's a shepherd
In 1891 it's just Mary and Janet so maybe Mary's husband Robert was dead by then ?
Also likely Mary died between this 1891 census and Janet's death in 1895 ?
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Okay i searched ScotlandsPeople with those parameters and bingo!
Mary McGregor widow of Robert McGregor shepherd Dalginross
Died 2nd Dec 1891 Dalginross Comrie age 83 (or a shaky 80 ? )
parents Robert Robertson ploughman deceased Margaret Robertson ms Stewart deceased
informant William McArthur nephew of Alva
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Okay i searched ScotlandsPeople with those parameters and bingo!
Mary McGregor widow of Robert McGregor shepherd Dalginross
Died 2nd Dec 1891 Dalginross Comrie age 83 (or a shaky 80 ? )
parents Robert Robertson ploughman deceased Margaret Robertson ms Stewart deceased
informant William McArthur nephew of Alva
Darn that's a problem unresolved, same informant, same info! I didn't expect that! :D
Let me think about it again see what else I can come up with to resolve this issue.
ETA just realised he's got her father's name wrong, Robert instead of Donald!
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Robert McGregor was born Balquhidder
Rob Roy McGregor live and was buried in Balquidder, his grave is just a few miles from me. :)
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OK did some checking on familysearch I think the marriage of Donald Robertson and Margaret Stewart in Blair Atholl and Dull 2 weeks apart are the banns called in both parishes ie just one marriage.
As that family is documented by Troth previously I guess that rules them out.
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Killin OPR from Scotlands People
1808 Dec 22 Donald Robertson & Margt. Robertson Tullich
can had their lawful Dr baptized called Mary
then lawful Dr Margt baptized July 15th 1814
their lawful Dr. Janet baptized Novr 10th 1817
their lawful son John baptized Augt 10th 1819
their lawful son Peter baptized Decr 4th 1820
their lawful son Donald baptized May 19th 1823
I reckon this is the family of Margaret Stewart.
( Donald Robertson and Margaret Cameron's Janet Robertson was 2nd Jan 1816 - OPR )
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This is all the marriages i can see that might fit but i'm still unsure if we can nail it down.
20 Feb 1789 Donald Robertson Margaret Stewart Blair Atholl
02 Feb 1790 Donald Robertson Margaret Stewart Blair Atholl
14 Nov 1795 Robert Robertson Margaret Stewart Blair Atholl
25 Jun 1797 Robert Robertson Margaret Smith Clunie
03 Feb 1798 Donald Robertson Margaret Stuart Moulin
20 Jun 1798 Donald Robertson Margt. Strachan Collace
14 Mar 1800 Robert Robertson Margaret Ealge Lethendy And Kinloch
16 Sep 1802 Donald Robertson Catharine Stewart Fortingall
04 Nov 1804 Donald Robertson Margaret Scott Lethendy And Kinloch
1805 Donald Robertson Cathrine Stewart Muthill
06 Apr 1806 Donald Robertson Isobel Stewart Blair Atholl
11 Jun 1806 Dond. Robertson Margt. Stewart Dull
22 Jun 1806 Donald Robertson Margaret Stewart Blair Atholl
26 Dec 1806 Donald Robertson Margaret Macintosh Perth
1808 Donald Robertson Mary Mcarthur Killin
28 Feb 1808 Donald Robertson Margaret Cameron Killin
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I was looking for either John or Donald from that family tbh, but I'm blowed if I can find either. :-\
However there are obvious marriages you can discount from the Perthshire list ie the names other than Donald or Margaret. Which leaves a list like this, and I think the first 4 are "outsiders" as they are a bit early.
20 Feb 1789 Donald Robertson Margaret Stewart Blair Atholl
02 Feb 1790 Donald Robertson Margaret Stewart Blair Atholl
03 Feb 1798 Donald Robertson Margaret Stuart Moulin
20 Jun 1798 Donald Robertson Margt. Strachan Collace
04 Nov 1804 Donald Robertson Margaret Scott Lethendy And Kinloch
11 Jun 1806 Dond. Robertson Margt. Stewart Dull
22 Jun 1806 Donald Robertson Margaret Stewart Blair Atholl
26 Dec 1806 Donald Robertson Margaret Macintosh Perth
28 Feb 1808 Donald Robertson Margaret Cameron Killin
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Killin OPR from Scotlands People
1808 Dec 22 Donald Robertson & Margt. Robertson Tullich
can had their lawful Dr baptized called Mary
then lawful Dr Margt baptized July 15th 1814
their lawful Dr. Janet baptized Novr 10th 1817
their lawful son John baptized Augt 10th 1819
their lawful son Peter baptized Decr 4th 1820
their lawful son Donald baptized May 19th 1823
I reckon this is the family of Margaret Stewart.
( Donald Robertson and Margaret Cameron's Janet Robertson was 2nd Jan 1816 - OPR )
Going by the above that would tie in with the submitted family on the IGI. Perhaps worth following up on Peter as he appears to have a descendant interested in genealogy there may well be a tree out there already which you can check out? His entry states Margaret Cameron as the mother.
PETER ROBERTSON Birth:
04 DEC 1820 Killin, Perth, Scotland
Parents:
Father: DONALD ROBERTSON
Mother: MARGARET CAMERON
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"Jan 2 Donald Robertson and Margaret Cameron Tullich cann a lawful Daur bap. called Janet" - Killin 1816 OPR Scotlands People
another 5 credits and i'm even more confused :D
I don't know that i'm convinced. Is this even my ancestors? i just wish there was something more concrete.
The death records tie to my family but say Margaret's name is Stewart.
On a side note i wonder if Tullich refers to Tullich as in further north or Tulloch as in Perthshire.
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"Jan 2 Donald Robertson and Margaret Cameron Tullich cann a lawful Daur bap. called Janet" - Killin 1816 OPR Scotlands People
another 5 credits and i'm even more confused :D
I don't know that i'm convinced. Is this even my ancestors? i just wish there was something more concrete.
The death records tie to my family but say Margaret's name is Stewart.
On a side note i wonder if Tullich refers to Tullich as in further north or Tulloch as in Perthshire.
The information on death certs is only as good as the knowledge of the informant :-\
On Tullich/Tulloch I would think it's the Perth one, spelling wasn't standardised it was phonetic back then ie written as it sounded.
I've got a gut feeling this is your Margaret aka Cameron/Stewart or Robertson but checking out Peter's line might help because he may have married post 1855 and that would be a gift.
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As an aside, which may be pertinent if she followed naming pattern, what were the names and dob of janet's children?
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You have scored! There is a child Janet, born Alva to your Janet in 1855 there is tons of info on 1855 certificates.
Name: Janet Mc Arthur
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 19 May 1855
Birthplace: ALVA,STIRLING,SCOTLAND
Father's Name: William Mc Arthur
Mother's Name: Janet Robertson
Do you have that certificate?
William appears to be the youngest? To be fair he probably knew little about his grandparents.
Name: William Mc Arthur
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 17 Sep 1858
Birthplace: ALVA,STIRLING,SCOTLAND
Father's Name: William Mc Arthur
Mother's Name: Janet Robertson
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I do now! :D
Amazing how much info you get off these 1855 records. I like how it confirms the number of children at the time.
Yes that's right, i have William McArthur as the youngest.
The children were Margaret c1846, John c1848, Mary c1850, Robert c1853, Janet 1855 and William 1858.
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William strikes again! ;D
b. 1891 Margaret Stewart McArthur in Alva
parents William McArthur and Jemima King married 1880 Alva
Actually that was a good point fifer1947 about the naming tradition.
Janet's second son was Robert not Donald and we know we haven't missed one because of the info on that 1855 BC
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Good! ;) So now we are looking for Robert Robertson wife Margaret Stewart?
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A bit earlier
ROBERT ROBERTSON
Marriages:
Spouse: MARGARET STEWART Family
Marriage: 14 NOV 1795 Blair Atholl, Perth, Scotland
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Aye i'm now thinking the father was Robert and maybe Donald was the error rather than Margaret's maiden surname which has been consistent albeit from one source :)
11 Oct 1796 Donald Robertson
09 Aug 1798 James Robertson
19 Nov 1800 Alexander Robertson
06 Nov 1802 Isobel Robertson
28 Jun 1806 Charles Robertson
20 Oct 1808 Janet Robertson
15 Jul 1811 Robert Robertson
25 Jun 1813 Margaret Robertson
Hmmm this seems to be the children of Robert Robertson and Margaret Stewart from familysearch and their all baptised Blair Atholl. Interestingly first child called Donald so Robert's father's name may account for the possible error.
No Mary although there's a gap about 1804
In the 1851, 1881 and 1891 census Janet's birth place is given as Killin
In the 1861 and 1871 census her birthplace is given as Loch Tay
Och i dunno i think i'm losing the plot i'm imagining barmy theories like maybe they were visiting relatives when Margaret had Janet at Killin and baptised her back home at Blair Atholl their home parish lol
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So the source of Killin is from census data? But surely that would suggest they grew up there not necessarily born there?
The missing Mary from that family worries me too.
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Can I suggest you pm MonicaL and ev they are darn good with these kind of puzzles. especially where there is conflicting data.
Also they have access to other sites like A*****y which might prove useful.