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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: Jessies Mum on Monday 28 May 12 06:37 BST (UK)
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Or possibly Victoria Elsie Lawrence - born abt 1871 Clifton, G'shire, marrying John Dunbar in 1895. Any information about her heritage would be most appreciated. Have been informed that somewhere she may have been Lady Lawrence? Not sure how this would happen?
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Birth: March qtr 1869
Clifton district vol 6a, page 65
Lawrence, Victoria Elsie
1881 census, reference RG11, Piece 2483, Folio 19, Page 34
8 Northcote Road, Clifton, Bristol
Lawrence, Jacob Head M 53 Shoemaker b Hull, Yorkshire
Lawrence, Elizabeth Wife F 36 b Scawby Brook, Lincolnshire
Lawrence, Walter Son M 23 Carpenter & Shoemaker b Hull
Lawrence, Arthur Son M 22 Waiter & Shoemaker b Bristol
Lawrence, Charlotte Daughter F 15 Scholar b Clifton
Lawrence, Victoria E Daughter F 12 Scholar b Clifton
Lawrence, Christopher J Son M 7 Scholar b Clifton
On 1871 census as Lawerence! And Victoria is down as Elise! ;D
RG10, 2544, 68, 20
1861 census: RG09, 1727, 13, 19
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sorry to ask, but any clues as to how I might find whether Elsie became a "Lady" in title?
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Her marriage:
13 August 1895
Stoke Bishop, Bristol
Victoria Elsie Lawrence to
David Dunbar
And 1901 census: reference RG13, Piece 2370, Folio 26, Page 8
Glenbry, Kingsley Road, Bristol
Dunbar, John Head M 30 Analytical Chemist b Scotland
Dunbar, Elsie Wife F 30 b Clifton
Dunbar, Robert Son M 5 b Barry, Glamorgan
Dunbar, Duncan Son M 3 b Sydenham, Kent
Ewens, Alice Servant F 17 Domestic Servant b Bristol
So maybe John Dunbar was knighted?
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Sorry, am in Australia and am not certain how the knighthood would take place - quite right though, if he is an analytical chemist, it could be as a result of his work - are there records I could check out possibly?
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Probably in The London Gazette?
They have a website, and a search function.
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Another query. If someone is knighted, wouldn't that make the wife a dame?
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Absolutely not!
A Dame is the female equivalent of being knighted.
A woman appointed to the grades of Dame Commander or Dame Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath, Order of St Michael and St George, Royal Victorian Order, or the Order of the British Empire becomes a Dame.
Women who are appointed to the Order of the Garter or Order of the Thistle are not given the title of "Dame" but "Lady".
The wife of Knighted man is called Lady.
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Thank you so much for clarifying for me - just wasn't sure of the protocol behind it. Still trying to see if there is something relevant to her or her husband.
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I would guess that it was her husband who received an honour.
BUT . . . family tales have a horrible habit of not being quite correct! ;D
Possibly she just had "airs & graces", and it was somebody saying "she thinks she's a Lady"??
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Could be, but will keep delving. Do you possibly have any information regarding her parents?
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This is looking very strange, but . . . .
Jacob & Elizabeth's first child, Walter, was born c 1856 in Hull.
Elizabeth was born in Scawby Brook, Lincolnshire.
I can't find a marriage for a Jacob Lawrence to an Elizabeth in either Yorkshire (East Riding) or Lincolnshire?
Then, on the 1851 census, I found a list of 7 Elizabeths, born in Scawby Brook, around 1830:
Cheesman
Cooling
Goodhand
Hewson
Marshall (living in Hull!)
Sutton
Young
And then I found this marriage:
September qtr 1852
Sculcoates district (Sculcoates is now part of Hull!) vol 9d, page 181
Marshall, Elizabeth
+ and on the same page +
Tancock, Jacob
And, on checking for Jacob Tancock in 1851:
Reference HO107, 2360, 622, 7
1 Church Street, Drypool, Kingston Upon Hull
Tancock, William Head M 68 Boot & Shoe Maker b Ireland
Tancock, Elizabeth Wife F 58 b Sunderland, Durham
Tancock, Jacob Son M 23 Shoe Maker b Sutton, Yorkshire Sutton is now a suburb of Hull
Tancock, John Son M 14 Scholar b Leeds
I freely admit that this is all speculation, and quite possibly a wild-goose chase, but ages and occupations add up!
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Gosh! The surname Tancock becoming Lawrence - stranger things have happened I guess - but the occupations are the same! This could be a bit of a break-through possibly?
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And I can't find Jacob Tancock after that 1851 census.
Neither can I find Jacob Lawrence before 1861!
There is a large age difference between Jacob Tancock and his brother.
I wonder if he was born Lawrence, but his mother remarried?
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Now there's a possibility as to why the name changed maybe?
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I have found the William Tancock died in 1854 so perhaps between then and the 1861 census she remarried like you thought?
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I was thinking the other way around?
Elizabeth marries a mr Lawrence.
Jacob is born in 1828
Mr Lawrence dies.
Elizabeth remarries, to William Tancock.
John Tancock is born, 1837. But maybe to a first wife?
By 1851 everyone is using the name Tancock.
Jacob then reverts to his "original" surname, Lawrence.
Just a line of thinking.
I may be wrong!! :o
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That does make more sense! Will have to keep checking previous census' and see if more shows?
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Deaths,
March qtr 1854
Sculcoates district vol 9d, page 99
Tancock, William
June qtr 1854
Sculcoates district vol 9d, page 113
Tancock, Elizabeth
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Wow, so close to each other in their deaths :'(
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I picked up on your information re Tancocks
My wife is a Lawrence and i have spent many years researching her line which goes back to William Tancock and Elizabeth Lawrence.
JACOB TANCOCK changed his name to LAWRENCE when he moved to BRISTOL 185? it being his mothers maiden name. Why ? I do not know. He is in census records for CLIFTON and other Bristol suburbs.
He did mary Elizabeth Marshall of Scawby Brook Lincs
WILLIAM TANCOCK was born in WICKLOW TOWN if his army discharge papers are correct. He was in the ROYAL ARTILLERY 1803-1818 and enlisted in Manchester. He had three children whilst in the RA in Drypool, Newcastle on Tyne and Charlton. See army births.
He married Elizabeth Lawrence born Sunderland 1783 in Sculacoates (Hull) but his name was noted as Hancock.
You may know all of this but
Regards
ARW
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Have just discovered Elsie / Victoria's death - in Auckland, New Zealand in 1936!
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After her separation from her husband, Victoria Elsie LAWRENCE was living with her sister in Bristol on the 1911 census. Sometime after that, she moved to Birmingham. On 28 Aug 1931, she left the port at Liverpool aboard the SS "Duchess of Atholl" headed to visit a Lawrence nephew in the USA on her way to New Zealand. She arrived in Auckland on 27th Dec 1931 aboard the SS "Aorangi", having left from Vancouver.
I think she travelled back and forth to Sydney, Australia to visit her youngest son, Kenneth, occasionally, but haven't found passenger manifests yet to confirm. Her eldest son, Robert (my g-grandfather), was living in Rotorua at the time, and her middle son, Duncan, was living in Newmarket in Auckland East.
I have a birth certificate for Elsie if you'd like a copy. I plan to get a death cert too, when I have spare cash, as I am fascinated by this lady. Wish I could find a photo of her, but her manifest card in 1931 describes her as 5'6", fair complexioned, with brown hair & blue eyes.
That whole Dunbar family makes for some great stories!