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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: caavaa on Sunday 03 June 12 01:50 BST (UK)
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Hi there,
I am trying to find out about an ancestor who died in the Gransha asylum in 1907. I have his death certificate but am trying to find admission notes, doctors notes etc. I did get in touch with PRONI but they could not help me. Where do I go next? Any help who be greatly appreciated.
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Welcome to Rootschat. Gransha (Londonderry Lunatic Asylym) is in County Derry not Antrim so I've moved your post from Antrim Resources & Offers.
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Hi, Sorry for putting it in the wrong place.
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No problem. When you say PRONI couldn't help exactly what do you mean? Their e-catalogue should show if what, if any, records they hold for the Londonderry Lunatic Asylum.
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I was in touch with a Michelle Kelly from PRONI in 2009 telling me that Western Trust transferred all their records to them. Michelle also stated "we do have a large collection for Gransha which was transferred to us 3-4 years ago but there are a few gaps. It is most likely that the records that are missing do not exist any longer".
She did however did a detailed search of the relevant archives and could confirm that she found my great uncle, a Samuel McCandless and that his registration number was 4157. He was listed in the 1901 census but died in Gransha in 1907 aged 33. Michelle could not find his case notes, admission details, committal papers but I managed to get his death cert.
The poor man was in there for 6 years and 6 years of paper work has disappeared. Very frustrating.
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Unfortunately it does look like the records don't exist any longer.
Samuel McCandless wasn't from the Coleraine/Macosquin area by any chance?
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Yes he was. His father was a David McCandless. Samuel is buried in the family plot in the Coleraine cemetery. Since Samuel died in Gransha, his father must have had his body transported to Coleraine. I was hoping to do a story on Samuel, but with the missing papers no go now. His reason for being in Gransha was mania due to alcohol.
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Have a lot of McCandless information at home which I'll check when I'm back in about 10 days or so.
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That would be fantastic! Thank you very much.
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Hi, I was wondering if you were going to get back to me about the McCandlesses.
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Was away for nearly 3 weeks and in the process of organising child for move to Canada so haven't had time to do much searching.
There was more than one David McCandless in Coleraine around that time- do you know his wife's name?
Was he the Samuel McCandless born 4 March 1873 bapt. 11 Apr.1873 1st Coleraine Presbyterian Church?
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David McCandless was first married to a Anne Finlay. 2nd wife was a Catherine Steedman.
The Samuel McC that you mentioned was the one who died in Gransha on the 5.8.1907
I have a sneaky suspicion that David McC's father (Samuel)was born in Macosquin. But cannot verify it. I think David's father had a brother called Abram or Abraham and he was born in Macosquin.
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I have details of David's family but all I have on Samuel is birthdate and baptism. David's father Samuel was a letter carrier (as was David 1857 until at least 1862) and his brother Samuel was a painter. Both 1901 and 1911 census list David as born Co. Antrim so perhaps the family lived there c1841.
David m. 4 Feb.1857 (1st Coleraine) Ann Finlay (died 29 Aug.1860)- 2 sons.
He m. 2 July 1862 (1st Coleraine) Catherine Steedman (also listed as Stockman in some records)- 6 children.
1. Robert born 24 Dec.1857
2. David born 4 Apr.1860 died 29 Dec.1860
3. Andrew born 10 Aug.1863
4. Annie born 8 Mar.1865
5. David born 12 Oct.1868
6. John born 9 Jan.1871
7. William born 11 Dec.1875
8. Samuel born 4 Mar.1873
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Thats my family that you have listed. Do you have any more info on them?
David McC (who was married twice) was born in Co. Antrim but I dont know where. One of my aunts seems to think he farmed at Priestland.
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What sort of information are you looking for?
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I have details of David's family but all I have on Samuel is birthdate and baptism. David's father Samuel was a letter carrier (as was David 1857 until at least 1862) and his brother Samuel was a painter. Both 1901 and 1911 census list David as born Co. Antrim so perhaps the family lived there c1841.
David m. 4 Feb.1857 (1st Coleraine) Ann Finlay (died 29 Aug.1860)- 2 sons.
He m. 2 July 1862 (1st Coleraine) Catherine Steedman (also listed as Stockman in some records)- 6 children.
1. Robert born 24 Dec.1857
2. David born 4 Apr.1860 died 29 Dec.1860
3. Andrew born 10 Aug.1863
4. Annie born 8 Mar.1865
5. David born 12 Oct.1868
6. John born 9 Jan.1871
7. William born 11 Dec.1875
8. Samuel born 4 Mar.1873
My wife's great grandmother was Mary Anne McCandless who married William Tosh from Co. Antrim . The only information that I have about her is that she was from Macosquin, does anyone know if this is the same person?
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Hi,
Don't know if it is the same person but Mary Anne married William Tosh in Macosquin Presbyterian Church on 14 Jun 1888.
Regards
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My wife's great grandmother was Mary Anne McCandless who married William Tosh from Co. Antrim . The only information that I have about her is that she was from Macosquin, does anyone know if this is the same person?
same person as who ??? don't think a Mary Ann has been mentioned previously in this thread. The only Mary Anne McCandless I see in Macosquin Presbyterian Church baptisms was born 1869, daughter of Thomas McCandless & Sarah Brewster (the register, however, in incomplete in 1850s).
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Sorry Aghadowey, I was referring to Annie born 8 th March 1865, the daughter of David McCandless and Catherine Steedman (Stockman )
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Hi,
Don't know if it is the same person but Mary Anne married William Tosh in Macosquin Presbyterian Church on 14 Jun 1888.
Have you any further information about the couple i.e their father's names and occupations?
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Sorry Aghadowey, I was referring to Annie born 8 th March 1865, the daughter of David McCandless and Catherine Steedman (Stockman )
David & Catherine's daughter Annie never married.
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Aghadowey. have you any info on David McC's parents? Samuel born 1805 died 1.3.1874 aged 69. His wife's first name was Ann who died 7.6.1846 aged 38. Dont know her maiden name. I know that David had 2-4 brothers, I know one was called William (have heaps of info on him) and a Robert (info also) there may be a John and a Hugh. I know he had a sister called Mary who married a James Doherty of Belfast.
I am trying to as far back as I can.
Yes you are right about Annie McCandless. She looked after one of her brothers (William) children when his wife died at a very young age. One of those children was my dad.
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I know that David had 2-4 brothers, I know one was called William (have heaps of info on him) and a Robert (info also) there may be a John and a Hugh. Is this the Robert McCandless who married Annie McCandless and his brother William McCandless who married Sarah McCandless?
There was a Hugh McCandless in Coleraine (m.2 Mary Fulton) but his father Samuel was a gardener. Hugh's brother John McCandless marred Catherine Stafford.
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Robert McC did marry a Annie??, and yes his brother William did marry a Sarah. Sarah's maiden name was McCandless and her father was a Abram/Abraham of Leardon. Abram married a Mary Black and they had 10 children.
When my great grandfather died in 1874 at Brook Street, Coleraine, signature of the occupier was a Hugh McC. I have Samuel's death cert.
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Robert McC did marry a Annie??, and yes his brother William did marry a Sarah. Sarah's maiden name was McCandless and her father was a Abram/Abraham of Leardon.
Looks like 2 brothers married 2 sisters.
Robert McCandless (d.1915) m.1878 Annie McCandless, daughter of Abram McCandless of Learden. I have 11 children listed for them which you likely already have found: Mary (1879), Sarah (1880), Thomas (1881), Anna/Annie (1883), Lizzie (1885), child (1886), Martha (1888), Robert John (1889), Agnes (1891), Eva Margretta (1893), Ida Marion (1895).
William McCandless & Sarah had 10 childrenL Annie (1870), William James (1871), Samuel Abram (1872), Mary Anne (1874), Sarah (1877), Jane (1880), son (1882), Robert Hutchinson (1884), Eva G.L. (1886), Thomas Black (1887).
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Hugh McCandless (born c1858/61?) m.1 Elizabeth Brownlee- 5 children, m.2 (1898) Mary Fulton- 4 children. Hugh (c1886), Matthew (c1888), Henry (c1891), Catherine (c1893), David (c1897), Robert (c1900), John (c1902), William (c1904), Hugh (c1906).
1898 listed as engineman, Millburn Cottages, 1901 craneman, Millburn Cottages, 1911 Adams Row.
Hugh's brother John McCandless (c1866) m.1 ?, m.2 (1901) Catherine Stafford. Daughter Mary E. m.(1891) John Todd, m.(1898) William T. Clarke.
Have rough years of birth for these McCandless men which indicates, if they are brothers, that there might be quite a few more children in the family:
David born c1841 Co.Antrim
Robert born c1842 Co.Antrim
William born c1845 Co.Antrim
Samuel born c1854 Co.Derry
Hugh born c1858 Co.Derry
John born ? (65 in 1901 and ? in 1911- transcribed as 45 but could be 75)
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Hi,
Don't know if it is the same person but Mary Anne married William Tosh in Macosquin Presbyterian Church on 14 Jun 1888.
Regards
Hi Kingskerswell,
As indicated by Aghadowey, Mary Anne is from a different family.
Where did you obtain your information and have you their father's names and occupations ?
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You will likely need to look at the marriage registration to get the fathers' names and occupations- either by ordering the certificate or viewing the microfilm of the church records. Both PRONI and Coleraine Library have microfilmed copy of Macosquin Presbyterian Church registers.
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Hi Sandal,
Information comes from a subscription site which I belong to. Unfortunately it does not list fathers' names.
2 Jan 1862, David McCandless married Catherine STEEDMAN in Coleraine First Presbyterian Church.
Regards
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2 Jan 1862, David McCandless married Catherine STEEDMAN in Coleraine First Presbyterian Church.
First Coleraine Presbyterian Church, 2 July 1862, David McCandless, full age, bachelor, postman, Coleraine, son of Samuel McCandless, letter carrier, to Catherine Stockman?, Coleraine.
Some additional notes-
William McCandless married 21 July 1870 Ballylaggan Reformed Presbyterian Church to Sarah McCandless.
Coleraine Chronicle, 10 Apr.1915, page 7 column 4- obituary for Mr. Robert McCandless gives lots of family details such as part of early life spent in Londonderry City & about 37 years ago returned to native town, survived by wife 2 sons and 9 daughters (details listed), 2 brothers (Coleraine) died within last 12 months, only surviving brother William McCandless of Ballymena formerly Ballymoney, brother-in-law James Doherty of Belfast. Nephews Abrahm H. Brewster, Woodburn Brewster, William McCandless, T.B. McCandless, JA Gregg (Belfast), John Mairs, James Henry.
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The Hugh McC you have listed is not my Hugh McC. Hugh's mother died in 1846. David McC born 1840, William born 1844. All Samuel's children born in Co. Antrim but I dont know where.
Re my g.g.gfathers marriage, I have a record (if it is my g.g.gfather) of a church marriage on the 18.5.1830 (would fit the time frame-Samuel born 1805) and a Anne Smith at the Holy Trinity Church of Ireland Banbridge, in the Seapatrick parish in Co. Down. This info comes from rootsireland.
How would I go about finding out more about the occupier in Brook Street, Coleraine at the time of my g.g.gfathers death on the 1.3.1874 where a Hugh is listed as the occupier?
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Hi. I emailed PRONI with my great grandfather's death date as he died at Gransha. They got permission to release a transcription of his admission reason etc. It only took a few weeks. You need to provide them with as much information as you can, to make it easier for them. They have to get permisson from one of the health depts to release the information if it is sensitive. Hope this helps.
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My wife's great grandmother was Mary Anne McCandless who married William Tosh from Co. Antrim . The only information that I have about her is that she was from Macosquin, does anyone know if this is the same person?
same person as who ??? don't think a Mary Ann has been mentioned previously in this thread. The only Mary Anne McCandless I see in Macosquin Presbyterian Church baptisms was born 1869, daughter of Thomas McCandless & Sarah Brewster (the register, however, in incomplete in 1850s).
The church baptism records are wrong Mary ann and William are my grandparents,mary ann's mother was mary ann henry from ballyvenox her father was thomas and her grandfather was george from learden,her father thomas was married twice firstly to mary ann henry to whom he had 4 children my grandmother being the eldest then after his first wife died he married sarah jane brewster to whom he had 4 more children.
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Macosquin Presbyterian Church records show 6 children baptised to Thomas McCandless and Sarah Brewster not 4- however, the 3 baptised in 1875 and an earlier Elizabeth (born 1868) are the children of Thomas by his first wife Mary Anne Henry (married 1866). Thomas married (1875) Sarah Jane Brewster and had Elizabeth, Margaret, Thomas and a John (c1891).
3 in 1875- Mary Anne (born 1869), Mathew (born 1871), Sarah Jane (1873)
1876- Elizabeth (born 1876)
1878- Margaret (born 1878)
1880- Thomas (born 1880)
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yes all your information is correct,but as you say the church records give sarah brewster as the mother of thomas's children from his first marriage who were baptised a week before thomas and sarah were married which greatly threw me off track when i was seeking info for my family tree
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sorry there's one error in you're search you have stated that mary ann mcc was born in 1869 she was actually born 5th july 1866 2 month's after thomas's and mary ann henry's civil wedding. I cant understand why the church records show 1869, and her and her 2 siblings were baptised the day before his second marriage to sarah jane brewster.Could it be to hide the fact that mary ann was born just before the wedding of her parents in a registry office
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My wife's great grandmother was Mary Anne McCandless who married William Tosh from Co. Antrim . The only information that I have about her is that she was from Macosquin, does anyone know if this is the same person?
same person as who ??? don't think a Mary Ann has been mentioned previously in this thread. The only Mary Anne McCandless I see in Macosquin Presbyterian Church baptisms was born 1869, daughter of Thomas McCandless & Sarah Brewster (the register, however, in incomplete in 1850s).
The church baptism records are wrong Mary ann and William are my grandparents,mary ann's mother was mary ann henry from ballyvenox her father was thomas and her grandfather was george from learden,her father thomas was married twice firstly to mary ann henry to whom he had 4 children my grandmother being the eldest then after his first wife died he married sarah jane brewster to whom he had 4 more children.
I'm a great grandson of William Tosh (1866) and Mary Ann. I believe that William's father was James Tosh (1840), but I'm struggling to find any further information on the Tosh line of the family. Any information that could help me over that hurdle would be much appreciated!
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I'm a great grandson of William Tosh (1866) and Mary Ann. I believe that William's father was James Tosh (1840), but I'm struggling to find any further information on the Tosh line of the family. Any information that could help me over that hurdle would be much appreciated!
Welcome to Rootschat. To avoid your query getting lost in this Gransha/McCandless thread you might be better off starting a new topic on this board (if your Tosh family were the Coleraine/Londonderry ones). Be sure to tell us all the information you have so far and exactly what we can help you with :)
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I'm a great grandson of William Tosh (1866) and Mary Ann. I believe that William's father was James Tosh (1840), but I'm struggling to find any further information on the Tosh line of the family. Any information that could help me over that hurdle would be much appreciated!
Welcome to Rootschat. To avoid your query getting lost in this Gransha/McCandless thread you might be better off starting a new topic on this board (if your Tosh family were the Coleraine/Londonderry ones). Be sure to tell us all the information you have so far and exactly what we can help you with :)
Thank you! I will do. :)