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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Bedfordshire => England => Bedfordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Vic H on Thursday 12 July 12 07:24 BST (UK)
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I am looking for information from the Woburn baptisms of James Ellis 13 Apr 1760 & his possible siblings. John Ellis 29 Oct 1752, Edward Ellis 07 Jul 1754, Mary Ellis 15 Feb 1756, William Ellis 16 Jul 1758, Joseph 05 Feb 1764. All born to William ELLIS & Ann unknown??? I am unable to find a marriage for William & Ann so hoping one of the baptism may give an indication of Ann's maiden name or where they were from.
regards from oz, Vicki
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hi william ellis married ann horspool 2 oct 1757 puddington bedfordshire
she was born1735 puddington
her parents were ann laram born 1708 puddington &thomas horspool born 1705 bedfordshire,they were married 24 june 1727 puddington
found info on latterday saints I.G.I regards ANN
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hi william ellis married ann horspool 2 oct 1757 puddington bedfordshire
she was born1735 puddington
her parents were ann laram born 1708 puddington &thomas horspool born 1705 bedfordshire,they were married 24 june 1727 puddington
found info on latterday saints I.G.I regards ANN
WARNING
Also on the IGI are baptisms of children of William and Ann in Puddington that overlap the baptisms in Woburn.
The Woburn couple had baptised three children by the time of the Puddington marriage.
Puddington is 25 miles from Woburn.
Two separate couples by the look of it.
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hi ,i have just come across a tree on ancestry showing a first marriage to Ann coxen 1752 then Ann horspool
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It still doesn't work. He can't have been baptising children simultaneously in Puddington and Woburn. I place no reliance on Ancestry trees.
Burials in Woburn
26 Dec 1784 Ann Ellis
24 Mar 1790 William Ellis
Burials in Puddington
8 Oct 1781 William Elliss
2 Jul 1797 Ann Ellis
Needs reference to the parish register for any extra detail, but it looks pretty clear that these are two separate couples.
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yes you are right, there are two couples. whoever has that tree looks like their info is wrong I'll have another look later going out now
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if this first wife " it is possible i suppose as i can't seem to find anything else" had john 1752,edward 1754, mary 1756 who she could have died giving birth to ,as he marries ann horspool in 1757 what do you think?
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I think that just looking at post 1757 baptisms of these couples' children in Woburn and Puddington gives you the answer
25 Jun 1758 Puddington John
16 Jul 1758 Woburn William (born 6 July)
13 Apr 1760 Woburn James (born 11 Apr)
31 Jan 1762 Puddington Thomas
5 Feb 1764 Woburn Joseph (born 25 Jan)
12 Aug 1764 Puddington Sarah
2 Aug 1767 Puddington Elizabeth
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what i want to know is why some people don't check back for information that we are trying to find for them!!!!!! ???
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Doran,
I know Vicki and she will check back, just she is very busy at the moment. She always looks at the information you find and will respond when she has a free moment.
Jack >:(
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Nothing for Vicki to check back for, other than a wild goose chase in north Beds, as we haven't been able to answer her original query. Not that I'm hopeful that the PR will give the information she's looking for. I haven't got Woburn transcript unfortunately.
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:) :)sorry i seem to have made you feel grumpy nanagrampy >:( didn't mean to regards ann :)
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OK - just thought I'd stick up for Vicki - some people don't always have internet access and may have to go to the internet cafe to access Rootschat.
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of course ;) i wasn't really aiming at Vicki directly i was feeling a bit peeved as some never seem to check back anyway i wont say another word ;)regards
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Hi all, and i do reply and a big HI & thankyou Jack. Sorry doran54. Ann, I am flat strap at the moment it is the end of the financial year, audits & tax returns are everyones demand!! also I live in "the outback / bush" in Australia & rely on Satellite broadband. Contrary to our pathetic Government saying that every Australian will have access to national broadband which is an absolute load of @#*!. Now off me horse & to the matter.
Had a feeling that my marriage info was wrong all along hence the question. I was hoping that someone might have access to the actual bapt. entries as they do not show up on my paid subsciption ancestry.com.site. I ruled out Ann Coxen & the Puddington marriage & baptisms as the Ellis family of my line were from Woburn originally.
My problem I have is, the James Ellis (5th gr grandfather) ]b. 1760 Woburn is correct, his father William Ellis from , ??? St Mary, Whitechapel, London, England b.1730. I am trying to substantiate this fact as we traced way back in the line from the Ellis's from St Mary, Whitechapel, London, England. I don't completely rely on the ancestry hits that you get from other trees, but they do give you an avenue, a clue to research & substantiate the facts.
Burials in Woburn
26 Dec 1784 Ann Ellis
24 Mar 1790 William Ellis
Needs reference to the parish register for any extra detail, but it looks pretty clear that these are two separate couples.
many thanks Bedfordshire boy. Was wondering if this were possible to look at the above entry & what information it would give. Are there any marriage entries for Woburn around that time? I really appreciate all your help & will endevour to reply faster.
cheers from a cold & windy oz, Vicki
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Hi
"James Ellis (5th gr grandfather) ]b. 1860 Woburn is correct, his father William Ellis from , Huh St Mary, Whitechapel, London, England b.1730. " ?
Now I'm confused.
Ray
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Hi Ray,
The family are also on my tree (though I am interested in this thread as I think my research is incorrect too), James was born in 1760, not 1860. Hopefully that helps a bit.
Vicki - burial records would give the age at death, by whom the ceremony was performed and place of abode at the time. I attach 2 examples from Warwickshire, one in 1860s which followed the standard form and one in 1607 in Latin I think. Hopefully at these dates we would still see the standard form with the various fields.
Jack
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Sorry, I can't seem to attach images this time. Will email them to you.
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.... burial records would give the age at death, by whom the ceremony was performed and place of abode at the time. I attach 2 examples from Warwickshire, one in 1860s which followed the standard form and one in 1607 in Latin I think. Hopefully at these dates we would still see the standard form with the various fields.
Ages at burial were only given from 1813 onwards, following Rose's 1812 Act. Before that it's very unusual to find an age, although an infant or child is usually, but not invariably, indicated. The ones I mentioned have no ages given - the extra detail to which I referred would be something like William Ellis, labourer or Ann Ellis widow or wife of William
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Sorry, I can't seem to attach images this time. Will email them to you.
The county boards on Rootschat don't permit attachments, but you only find this out when it refuses to perform the operation!
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I thought it was a bit odd and perhaps just me! :)
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My problem I have is, the James Ellis (5th gr grandfather) ]b. 1760 Woburn is correct, his father William Ellis from , ??? St Mary, Whitechapel, London, England b.1730. I am trying to substantiate this fact as we traced way back in the line from the Ellis's from St Mary, Whitechapel, London, England.. ....are there any marriage entries for Woburn around that time?
The only Ellis entries in Woburn prior to 1752 are the baptism and burial of Bridget, dau of Thomas, in 1669, so William and Ann certainly appear to have pitched up from elsewhere. But there is a marriage on 16 June 1740 between Mark Ellis and Jane Walker. Mark is an easier name to research than William, so he 's worth pursuing. But they don't appear to have baptised any children in Woburn, Bedfordshire, or anywhere else in England, nor were they buried in Beds.
I'll see what I can dig up
Why do you think William may have been from Whitechapel?
David
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Hi David,
There are lots of Ellis's in Toddington, which is close to Woburn, including some of James b1760's children, the first are born at Chalgrave and then they move to Toddington.
As we said, we have William Ellis b1730 in Whitechapel, but mainly from other people's trees and we wonder if there are any alternatives to this. If there aren't, then we can assume this Whitechapel lead is correct and we have got all the ancestry details for that - well, sort of but that's for another day.
If we could sort of find all the possibilities it might help.
Thinking again, there will be more than one because we have already found 2 Williams. One marrying Ann Horsepool in Podington and the other one who we now believe to be our's. So if we could find all the possible births of William, we can do a process of elimination and find the correct one.
Jack
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And did we ever find a marriage between William and Ann - now we know it isn't Ann Horsepool?
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As we said, we have William Ellis b1730 in Whitechapel, but mainly from other people's trees and we wonder if there are any alternatives to this. If there aren't, then we can assume this Whitechapel lead is correct
NOOOOO!!!!!! You can't assume any such thing.
Take other peoples' trees as a guide only. Some trees show William Ellis b 1730 Whitechapel as being the William who baptised children with Ann in Woburn. Others show him as marrying Mary Clark in St Katherine by the Tower in 1749, which looks to me to be much more feasible. So there's a divergence in online trees for a start. Then the laughable tree that has Woburn and Puddington as the same William is even worse.
Then bear in mind that the IGI, which I assume is what you've been using, is far from complete for England, although Beds baptisms/marriages pre 1813 are virtually complete.
And bear in mind also that Woburn is within spitting distance of Buckinghamshire, so they could have moved across the county boundary.
As I see it at the moment you have nothing on him prior to 1752, and attempts to link him to Whitechapel are wild speculation. The fact that there's such a divergence in online trees points to the fact that no-one really knows, they're all guessing, and as happens all too often, the sheep mentality has taken over with one person copying another person's tree and the speculation is perpetuated.
Start with Woburn parish register microfilm at your nearest LDS Family History Centre to see exactly what the entries say, including the 1740 marriage of Mark Ellis.
David
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Sorry David. I will have to get the microfilm at sometime or Vicki will - we will certainly keep you updated. I must say, Whitechapel is a significant distance from Woburn
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Hi All,
Ray sorry for the typo error. Jack, Mmmmm looks like I will have to do some deeper digging BUT its not looking so good. I will pursue the name Ellis & all the families at that time for that area. I am about 4 hours in travel (380 k's) to the nearest IGI Library so will tackle the familysearch site again.
As we said, we have William Ellis b1730 in Whitechapel, but mainly from other people's trees and we wonder if there are any alternatives to this. If there aren't, then we can assume this Whitechapel lead is correct
Take other peoples' trees as a guide only. Some trees show William Ellis b 1730 Whitechapel as being the William who baptised children with Ann in Woburn. Others show him as marrying Mary Clark in St Katherine by the Tower in 1749, which looks to me to be much more feasible. So there's a divergence in online trees for a start. David
I did notice this tree/ marriage & did a lot of searching. Hence, my raised eyebrows, confusion & lots of questions as to why our William ended up in Woburn. The interesting fact is that 4 generations later (1850's) the Ellis's which I have cert's of, stayed & lived in & around Shoreditch, Edmonton,Bethnal Green. Thanks all, Jack has this really helped us...NUH but I love the challenge & will keep digging.
cheers from a sunny but cold Oz today, Vicki