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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: sallyyorks on Monday 13 August 12 22:17 BST (UK)
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Hi there.. Im trying to get further back with my Taylors but am struggling as it is such a common name and i am unsure of area as it borders Lancs.
My grt grandad was "John Willy" Taylor . He was born 1877 Stalybridge .
I believe his father was named William Taylor .
The family and john willy age 4 are on the 1881 census at Stalybridge Dukinfield living Spring Bank St (where John willies future wifes family move to and his mothers family live also with a Christian name we think passed down . Dinah ) .
1881 c RG11/4055/104 page 26
William Taylor 1852 Stalybridge - nail warehouseman .
Lucy wife b 1855 Stalybridge (nee Whiteley mother nee Dinah Cooper b Derbyshire) .
John William son 1877 Stalybridge .
Walter son 1879 Stalybridge
Mary dau age 3 months .
I think William is on 1861 c at 11 Grass Croft Dukinfield/Stalybridge? with parents but not sure.
William Taylor 1817 Werneth - cotton loom weaver .
Mary wife b 1811 Deal ?(wooldale ?) Yorkshire .
Thoms son b 1843 Tintwhistle
Andrew son 1850 Dukinfield
William son b 1852 Dukinfield
James Hall father in law b 1789 Worsley Lancs .
Any help appreciated as am not used to Chesire area and its Parish records . Thankyou
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Could this be likely contender for William born 1852 in 1871 census?
The occupation is the same as 1881.
1871 RG10/4085/6/6
Canal Street, Dukinfield Stalybridge Lancashire
William Taylor head widower 53 Warehouseman cotton mill Werneth Cheshire
Andrew son 21 warehouseman nail works Stalybridge Cheshire
William son 19 warehouseman nailworks Staleybridge Cheshire
William snr's birth place and occupation would suggest that the family you have found in 1861 is the same.
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This family again in 1851
1851 HO107/2237/386/81
4 Hilton Street, Dukinfield, Staleybridge Lancashire
William Taylor head 34 Cotton Weaver Werneth Cheshire
Mary wife 40 Wooldale Yorkshire
Thomas son 9 scholar Tintwistle Cheshire
Andrew son 7 months Stalybridge
Just noticed the 8 year gap between Thomas's birth and Andrew's. Could Mary be the second wife of William so not the mother of Thomas? Or did children born in between die?
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Hi Crisane :) thankyou for your reply . Great info. Yes i believe this must be them . I just hope i am onto right family as there are so many John and William Taylors and another "William and Lucy" in the area .
But John William on Spring Bank St seems to be right as i have a lot of family who lived there .
Lucky (if right family) that "in law" James Hall is on census with them. But the family are born 3 counties
William Taylor b abt 1817 Werneth Chesire ,
wife Mary b abt 1811 Deal/Wooldale , Yorkshire
and (who i assume is her father) James Hall b abt 1789 Worsley Lancashire .
Not sure where to look next . I think Worsley is Manchester way . Ta again , most helpful :) . . . edit yes "gap" , not sure of marriages as cant find them
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Hi
still looking but as you say so many Taylors about it gets confusing and confusing me is not hard to do.
I will keep looking.
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Thankyou . Yes sooo many Taylors. If they hadnt ended up on the same street with other family i would have been completely lost . In 1891 John W Taylor (age 14 cotton piecner) is living number 34 Spring Bank St and at number 40 is a Samuel Hall b 1818 Pendlebury -cotton spinner . But like Taylor , Hall is a common name so not sure yet if he is owt to do with the Halls ref James Hall 1789 above.
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Hi Could this be him?
Baptism
17 Jan 1819 St Mary the Virgin, Eccles Lancashire
Samuel Hall - son of James Hall and Mary
Abode Pendlebury
Occupation weaver
Heather
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Hi there Heather :) thankyou for reply. Yes that looks likely with the "Pendlebury" connection . Ta :)
edit cont (had to think for a minute :) ) . . . so the Samuel Hall on Spring Bank St in 1891 might be the brother of Mary Taylor (nee Hall b abt 1811) whose son and family are also on same page living Spring Bank St . If so he would be John Willies grt uncle (i think thats right :) need another coffee )
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Hi
This might just be coincidence but all the names and dates seem to fit.
FromCheshire BMD
William Taylor married Mary Lockwood in 1842 at St Michael's Church Mottram in Longendale
The following births all have mother's maiden name Lockwood
Thomas Taylor born 1842 Mottram
Esther Taylor born 1844 Dukinfield died 1846 Dukinfield
Isaac Taylor born 1846 Dukinfield died 1846 Dukinfield
Andrew Taylor born1850 Dukinfield
William Taylor born 1852 Dukinfield
Remember, its sub registration districts so on the census it might say Stalybridge but the birth might have been registered in Dukinfield.
Tintwistle/Mottram
Dukinfield/Stalybridge
Heather
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The marriage of William Taylor and Mary Lockwood took place on 7th February 1842
William's father was Isaac Taylor. William was 24 when he married.
I wonder if Mary Hall's first husband was a Lockwood.
Heather
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Yes . Thankyou , that is great stuff Heather . Lots to go on there :)
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In 1841
Mottram in Longendale
William Lockwood 32 b1809 Mottram
Mary Lockwood 30 b1811 Mottram in Longendale
Andrew Lockwood 20 b1821 Mottram in Longendale
Sarah Lockwood 15 b1826 mottram in Longendale
There are several other Lockwoods on the same page, some born in the county(Cheshire) some not born in the county
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. . . only thing is is that the Mary wife of William Taylor on the 1851 and 1861 is b 1811 Wooldale/Deal ?, Yorkshire . Unless she is a different Mary. Though the area does go over the tops toward Wooldale area in Yorks. To add to the confusion John Willy b 1877 always said he was born in Yorkshire and in "Otley" of all places ! ! ! Though in 1911 he is b Staleybridge Chesire (we know its him because of his wife Margarets ("Maggie") birthplace and relatives remember the house at Hamilton St , wich is still there )
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When I have time, I'll go to the archives centre in Ashton to check the marriage in 1842 for William Taylor and Mary Lockwood.
Please send me a pm of any other marriages/baptisms you would like checking if you know the churches.
ashton/hyde/stalybridge/mottram/dukinfield
Heather
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I will look into all this some more and get to know the Churches and border areas better . Thankyou ever so much for your kind offers Heather . Your help has already been wonderful . Ta
edit ...ah yes , my mistake in my above post
as you say not born in County ,
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Hi
Were the family Catholics?
On www.cheshirebmd.org.uk the marriages all seem to be Civil.
There is a R Catholic Church in Dukinfield St Mary's
There were 2 in Ashton, St Ann's and St Mary's
Do you know where any of the family are buried?
Heather
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Im not sure . I know that Maggies family (who married John Willy ) the Thompsons were Presbyterian and from Northern Ireland (the last family to move to Spring Bank St about mid 1880s) but i dont think either of them were Churchy type people . I dont know where they are buried . I imagine its in Stalybridge . Maggie was John Willys 2nd wife . The odd thing is the way they all move around together. The Taylors (from Ches) , Whiteleys (Yorks) , Coopers (Derbs). They all start off at Canal St , wich i understand would have been an industrial overcrowed area in 1841 with all the rapid building work and mills going on. Eventually they all move to Spring Bank St 1891 . Then they all move to Water ? St by 1901 . Is St Mary the Virgin a Catholic Church Church at Eccles where Samuel Hall was baptised ? I wonder why they moved so much with Mary born "Wooldale Yorks". Probably the mills. I did find a bapt William 1817 s/o Isaac Taylor at Gee Cross Unitarian Church earlier and a marriage of an Isaac and Esther Hibbert 1815 St Marys Stockport but not sure .
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Do you know who John Willy's first wife was?
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Was his first wife Jane? Married 1896 St Mark's Dukinfield?
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In 1901
21 North End Road, Stalybridge
John William Taylor 24 born Stalybridge 1877 Life Insurance agent
Ellen Taylor 24 born Stalybridge Higham
Looks like his first wife was Ellen Broadley 1899 Civil marriage Ashton Under Lyne
Did Ellen die in 1906 aged 30 Stalybridge?
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Was george from his first marriage and Margaret Isabel from his second?
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(sorry i coudnt answer sooner , have been at work) . Yes . John W had a child (it looks like that would be George) with his 1st wife . Then Margaret Isabel is his and Maggies daughter "auntie Belle" . I didnt know his 1st wifes name. Thankyou again
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There is a marriage for Margaret Isabel Taylor at New St George Stalybridge in 1937.
This church is Cof E
Heather
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I know that 'Auntie Belle' died quite young but that she was an adult when she died (possibly 'TB' ) . I also think they ,again, all lived near each other and around Hamilton St . It was a large family . One of the brothers was named Augustus (after Maggies brother and their father ) now deceased , who i remember . They had VERY strong Stalybridge accents it seemed to us too :)
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There is a death for an Augustus Thompson in 1917 Stalybridge aged 65
There is a birth for Augustus Thompson reg Dukinfield in 1887 mmn Garner
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There is a christening for Augustus Thompson at Christ Church stalybridge 6th Feb 1887. His parents were Augustus and Margaret Thompson. Christ church is Cof E
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Yes thats them just after they came over from Northern Ireland . Its interesting that it says 'Garner' because we have it as Gardiner or Gardner . But Augustus and Maggies brother Robert Alexander (he moves to Yorkshire) has a son named Garner (clear on image) so thats put a new perspective on the surname of their mother . Robert Akexander Thompson , Lance -Sergeant dies KIA april 19th 1918 in France reg no 22829 , 12th Batt Highland Light Infantry . Thankyou because now thinking Garner instead of Gardiner
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Have you got Robert Alexander Thompson's certificate from the Commonwealth war Graves Site?
www.cwgc.org
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No . We dont know where he is buried. Thankyou for link . I cant search site at moment because of format as im on a phone but will when i get to a pc. Is he there do you know ? Thankyou
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His details are all there and it gives his mother as Margaret from Hamilton Street, Stalybridge
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Yes . Is it possible for you to post info here ? We dont know these records and not sure how to access them . Will understand if its against site rules.
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I will certainly give you the information.
Just before I do that, did John William Taylor die 26 October 1940?
If so, he is buried with both wives Ellen and Margaret in St George's Stalybridge
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Please let me know if you can't open this and I will try to send it in a different format.
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Thankyou for trying but when i opened it i coudnt read it (its my phones fault ) . I will try to get to my neighbours computer next couple of days . Thankyou again :) edit and also thankyou for burials at Stalybridge too
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I have changed it to jpeg
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I can see post . Thankyou very much
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Checked this marriage out at the |Archives centre
St Michael's Mottram in Longendale
7th February 1842
William Taylor 24 Bachelor Weaver born Hollingworth, Father Isaac Taylor
Mary Lockwood 30 Spinster weaver born Hollingworth no father's name given
Witness William Harrop James Cooper
Heather
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I cant thank you enough. Very kind of you to look this up for our family.
So age difference with Mary being about five years older than William confirms it is likely the same Mary as on census with father James Hall but she was a spinster Lockwood when she married so were her parents married ? .
Wonder why no father for Mary mentioned at marriage 1842 and that she is spinster Lockwood born Hollingworth , Chesire and William is bachelor
but then she is born "Deal?/Wooldale Yorkshire" with father James Hall on census .
But it must be same Mary
(Witness James Cooper . Their sons future mother in law was a Cooper , but not sure of any connection there) .
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...........im confused by Mary (spinster) Lockwood who married William Taylor (bachelor) 1842,
do i have wrong family on 1861 census
with "father in law" James Hall ? ???
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If James Hall is Marys father then was she born illegitimate ?
There are siblings of only parent Esther Lockwood in Yorkshire on Family Search site
(illegitimate) Children of Esther Lockwood , surnames also Lockwood
1809 James ,bapt Allerston
1810 Mary ,bapt Allerston
1811 Joseph ,bapt Holmfirth (wich is Wooldale area)
1812 Coultas ,bapt Malton
1815 Luke ,bapt Almondbury (again Wooldale area)
"Allerston" is near Pickering and miles away but when i looked up James on census he gives birthplace as Denby (Dale ?) wich is in the "Wooldale" Yorks area that "our" Mary also gives as birthplace on census ,
though i havnt found the other possible siblings
with Mary on the
1841 census at Tintwistle , Mottram in Longendale , Chesire (not born in County)
William Lockwood b abt 1809 ,
Andrew Lockwood b abt 1821 ,
Sarah Lockwood b abt 1826
and on same page
Jonathan Lockwood b abt 1801,
im assuming these might be Marys siblings that she is staying with/near
later on Jonathan is again at Tintwistle (lodging) . .
1851 at Tintwistle , Black Bull Inn .
Jonathan Lockwood 1800 b Wooldale , Yorks (with wife Ruth and children) .