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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Completed Lookups => Topic started by: Bellou on Tuesday 21 August 12 14:19 BST (UK)
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There has been a family story that baby twins were killed in a fire at a house in Cliff Close, Oystermouth, Gower. I have found the burials of Emma Clara Kift and Mary Maria Kift , who were both baptised on 6th December 1866 and buried in 1868. They were the daughters on John and Caroline Kift.
Would there be any coroners reports or newspaper reports which would confirm how these children died ? I checked the Cambrian Newspaper Archives online and could not find a mention.
Also , is anyone else researching this family ?
Thanks
Bellou :) :)
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Emma Clare was buried 14 April 1868 abode Cliff Close
Mary Ann 6 Apr 1868 abode Cliff Close both aged 2
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Unlikely to be in the local papers if you can't find them on the Cambrian index, but it seems strange that it wouldn't have been reported. :-\
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Hi,
The death certificates will show the cause of death and confirm, or not, the family story.
Nanny Jan
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Assuming this was a Swansea coroner case the record would appear to be in this bundle:
http://www3.swansea.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=DD+SB+31%2f1%2f52&pos=58
I'm probably going in to the Archive on Thursday or Friday and could look if you like?
Let me know.
Bernard
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That would be fantastic if you could look it up! Thanks .
I have ordered the death certificate for Emma Clara Kift today so will see what it says .
Thanks again
Bellou :) :)
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Hi
These are the records that survive for Reports of the Coroner Gower and Kilvey ) 1862 to1900,.
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=29592
Kift:
The parents - these names below both have surviving coroner's reports, years apart , so goodness what happened to these people if they are yours]:
D/D SB 31/267/10> Caroline Kift 15 Nov 1884
D/D SB 31/121/1> John Kift 2 Sep 1872
There seems to be nothing under 1866 AND 68 for the girls , for instance , similar names or a female child that has no name.
Kift really is a very unique name in the area , I'd say those above there's a very likely chance they are yours.
Hope that helps
Kind regards
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I popped in yesterday and - I now realise - looked at the wrong date. My fault, sorry. Following Cell's very helpful post it looks as if there were not any inquests on the children in any event?
I could look up the parents, if you like. My next visit might be Friday but could be the week after that.
Let me know, please.
Bernard
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Thank you Cell and Bernard .
It is very strange if there were no inquests if the twin girls were killed in a fire. The death cert I have ordered should at least confirm how Emma Clara died. There are certainly birth , baptism and burial records which seem to confirm the story that they were twins and died at similar times. I suppose it could be of an illness, but am not sure why then the family story would be of a fire.
If you could look up the parents records , Bernard, that would be great. As there were inquests you do wonder what happened. It does seem that these could be the right John and Caroline Kift or must be members of the family.
Thanks agin
bellou :) :)
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Hi,
There's a death notice in the Cambrian for a John Kift - dated 20 September 1872, which matches the inquest month, and death on the free BMD
"ON 2 SEPTEMBER, AT 4 GAM STREET, SWANSEA, AT THE HOME OF HIS DAUGHTER, MR JOHN KIFT, AGED 77. P8"
Put kift into the Cambrian search , you'll find a few newspaper articles that may be belonging to your family. Have you an Elizabeth Kift in your family? There's a few articles of an inquest of her new born child held in Newton Oystermouth
Ther's also this one - "SWANSEA POLICE: OLIVE THERESA KIFT, 17, DAUGHTER OF JOSEPH KIFT, TOBACCONIST, NEWTON ROAD, MUMBLES, ASSAULTED"
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=6197
Kind regards
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Unlikely to get over to WGAS this week; next week quite likely, late on I think, so I'll let you know. I'll snap what is there. The writing is a bit contorted but readable.
Typically you get 3 or 4 pages as far as I can tell. A list of the jury members and their signatures, evidence from witnesses and/or the police etc. And a written summary/finding by the coroner. Quite informative.
Bernard
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That would be great, Bernad. I am hoping to receive Emma Clare's death cert within a few days .
many thanks
bellou :) :)
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This family tragedy is getting quite bizarre . Emma and Mary Kift certainly seem to be twins and they are registered in the same quarter in 1866, were baptised together and then buried within a few days of each other aged 2 in 1868. The family story is they were killed in a fire at Clift Close, Caswell, Oystermouth in Glamorgan .
However, I have just received Emma Clara Kift's death certificate . It certainly shows that she died on 10th April 1868 at Clift Close, Oystermouth aged 2 and is the daughter of John Kift. Her mother Caroline Kift is the informant who was 'present at the death' . However, the cause of death is shown as 'CONVULSIONS CERTIFIED'.
So should I get the other twin's death certificate ? Were there other children in the family who were killed in a fire in Clift Close? Any thoughts anyone ??
Bellou :) :)
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Infant mortality was high in the 19th c and I suspect that the 'family story' is incorrect, as the cert seems to show.
Personally, I would get the other cert. Might well show death cause was disease?
Bernard
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Bellou - I have the images of the coroners reports for both adults. At a glance there appears to be no skull-duggery involved. Coroner probably involved because they were sudden deaths, I think.
If you PM me your e-mail address I'll send them on to you.
Bernard
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How kind Bernard :-*
Bellou - are you happy that this thread can be marked Complete?
Best Wishes
Morgan
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Yes thank you. Bernard has been great sending me the records . Thanks everyone
Bellou :) :)
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:)
Bernard
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Hi Bellou
These Kifts are my relatives. I would be very grateful if you have any information on them?
Regards
Adam
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Hi all,
We have been researching our family tree and have discovered that Elizabeth Kift is my great great great grandmother. Very shocked by what we have discovered about them so far but not surprised as we also have another family mystery we are trying to get to the bottom of.
Does anyone any information about Elizabeth and her daughter Mabel please?