RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: jomcd967 on Monday 08 October 12 01:57 BST (UK)
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Hi, I'm hoping someone can find a birth of a Catherine/Kate White in Tasmania sometime around 1850, her parents should be Richard & Catherine,
Any help gratefully received,
Thanks, Jo :)
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Jo no births to a Richard and Catherine WHITE in Tasmania at all.
Was the information taken from a marriage or death cert?
Cando
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Hi Cando, it was more of a hunch, Catherine's two sisters were born in London about 1835 -1837, Richard & Catherine Snr's death certificate indicate that they arrived in Australia about 1847 for Catherine and possibly earlier for Richard. The family settled in Bendigo (Catherine & Richard are the parents of Mary Ann SMETHURST nee White) and I have been unable to find a birth record for anyone in the family, either here or England. Catherine Snr's death cert stated 4 years in Tasmania before coming to Victoria. I have a post on the London board to see if anyone can help find them there as to date I can't find a marriage of Richard & Catherine in London in 1835, the birth of Mary Ann & Margaret in London 1835 - 1837, an immigration record for the family coming here - nothing! I am trying out a theory that Richard White, born abt 1811 in London, a carpenter (all on his death cert), husband of Catherine Sullivan, father of Mary Ann, Margaret & Catherine, is the same Richard White, born abt 1811, carpenter, convicted at the Old Bailey on the 24 Oct 1836 and transported to Tassie for seven years aboard the Elphingstone, ticket of leave given in 1841, conduct records shows he was a carpenter, wife Catherine & two children. My dilemma is how often would a wife and two young girls follow her husband out here ( a local newspaper report implies that she came out after him) and would they end up in Bendigo by 1855 when Mary Ann married Joseph SMETHURST, witnessed by her father. Also the convict records seem to vary the year of Richards birth from 1801 - 1811? Any advice or suggestion??
Jo ???
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I found this today
Margaret White married John Fenwick in Victoria
Reg Year:1858
Reg Number:3312
and this
Margaret Fenwick
death:1921 Bendigo, Victoria
Father: Richard White
Mother: Cath Sullivan
Reg Number: 12867
Hope this helps. ;D
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Thanks Dylansmother,
I have been able to cover Margaret & Mary Ann pretty well (although Margaret's husband John Fenwick is still a bit of a mystery),and from both Margaret's will and Catherine's will have traced Catherine (born abt 1850) to marrying Francis Calvert (as Kate Josephine White) and dying in Hay in 1912, but still can't find her birth, Margaret's & Mary Ann's birth in London, or Richard & Catherine. The marrying & dying are all covered though. It's the prior to 1855 that is all a big blur, but I really appreciate your having a look for me. Any and all assistance is greatly received,
Thanks, Jo :)
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Does the marriage certificate for Catherine WHITE m. Francis CALVERT have a birthplace for Catherine?
The birth certificates for her children should have birthplaces for parents (Catherine and Francis).
Similarly, the marriage certificate for John FENWICK who m. Margaret WHITE.....information about his origins?
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Hi Wivenhoe,
I haven't bought the Catherine White/Francis Calvert marriage cert, I seem to have overspent on this lot lately but may have to. My calculations from both her parents death certificates say that Catherine Snr came to Aus 1848-1849, spent four years in Tassie and the rest of her time in Vict. This would indicate a Tassie or Vict birth, but her age on both their death certificates indicate Tassie abt 1850. I am fairly confident that both Margaret & Mary Ann were born in London. This is confirmed on Mary Ann's marriage cert and based on their closeness in ages, and their possible dates of arrival, they were both born between 1834-1836, coming out about ten years later. Their is no trace of their births in London, no hint of them or their parents on an 1841 census, no trace of a marriage of their parents, no trace of Richard's birth in London???? A big, mysterious brick wall prior to Mary Ann's marriage in 1855!
Jo ???
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P.S. there don't seem to be any children of either Margaret White/John Fenwick or Catherine White/Francis Calvert.
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P.S. there don't seem to be any children of either Margaret White/John Fenwick.
There was a daughter born to John FENWICK & Margaret WHITE:
FENWICK Unnamed Female b. 1859 3RD WHITE #16165
Father: Jno
Mother: Margaret WHITE
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The CALVERT/WHITE marriage registration shows Francis born in DERBY & Kate born in TAS:
CALVERT Francis (born Derby) m. WHITE Kate Josephine (born Tasmania) 1877 #4562
Their burials & MI's at HAY cemetery give a few more details pointing to Catherine being born about 1848:
Burial:
CALVERT Francis d. 11/09/1912
Sec: C/E
Row: AC
Lot: 09
MI:
Sacred to the memory of
Francis Calvert
Died 11/09/1912
Age 77 years
Born Derby England
Died at Hay
Erected by his loving wife
At Rest
Burial:
CALVERT Catherine d. 10/09/1917
Sec: RC
Row: G
Lot: 05
MI:
Sacred to the memory of
Catherine Calvert
Died 10/09/1917 at Hay
Age 69 years
Sadly Missed
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Merlin, thank you! Can I ask where you got that? Now it's back to my original question, why can't I find a birth, immigration, English baptism or marriage or anything for any of them prior to 1855? The unnamed female of Margaret & Francis also died in 1859. The marriage of Mary Ann and death record of Richard all state Church of England and although Catherine Sullivan was Irish there is no indication of religion on her death certificate. So I don't think I am dealing with a catholic marriage of Richard & Catherine in London?
Any further advice or suggestions would be hugely appreciated, also any ideas on how difficult/common it would be for Catherine to follow Richard within ten years of him being transported (if he was)??
Regards, Jo :-\
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Hi Jo
I know the above forum discussion topic was some years ago, but was wondering did you progress further from the posts?
Cheers
Imax
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Hi IMAX,
I have filled in some blanks, but still unable to find the marriage and birth records I was looking for.
Were you wanting any particular information?
Jo :)
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Hi Jo,
Mary Ann Smethurst (White) was my 2nd great grandmother. I'm a relatively new starter in piecing together a picture of my past. My Aunt thinks she may have found a convict connection via the White lineage and I was trying to piece that together when I found this line of chat and thus my interest!
Any information confirming that connection would of special interest.
Kind regards imax
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Hi Imax,
Mary Ann Smethurst is my 3x Great grandmother so we are related :), please feel free to send a PM with your email address and any questions that I may be able to assist with.
Cheers, Jo :)
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Imax - welcome!
You may need to make another post to be able to use the PM system - needs only be a one-liner. :)
Judith
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Thanks Judith for the heads up on the PM and the welcome!
Do you have an interest in the White - Tasmania connection?
Cheers
IMAX.
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No Imax - I just enjoy the genealogical hunting on R'chat ;D
That should give you the 3 posts to allow for PM use.
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You probably already have these.
Obit for Francis CALVERT with useful genealogical info, and life events
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/140673902
Such a sad end for Catherine CALVERT
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/131037420
An obit for Catherine states that she is a "native of Tasmania"
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/140387358
According to the NSW State Library there are records of applications for wives and children of convicts to go to Tasmania.
Convict applications to bring out families to Van Diemen's Land (also NSW, VIC & WA) : index, 1827–1873 [catalogue record]
See if your convict applied to have their family brought out to Australia for free. You may find the names and ages of their spouse and children, where they lived in their home country, the name of the ship and year of departure.
Ask at the desk in the Special Collections area to see if we have the original records. Most of these records are held at the Tasmanian Archive and Heritage Office so you may need look there.
http://guides.sl.nsw.gov.au/content.php?pid=445387&sid=3649015
Here is the link to the Tasmanian Archive and Heritage Office which says that you can chat on-line with them Mon-Fri, business hours. Might be worth a try.
https://www.linc.tas.gov.au/get-help/Pages/help-finding.aspx
Judith
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Hi Judith,
Thanks for the links, some I hadn't seen as my link to Richard White is via Mary Anne the third daughter and I hadn't looked to much at sisters Margaret or Catherine.
So the links were of interest.
Cheers
Imax