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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: sunshine333 on Friday 19 October 12 01:43 BST (UK)
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Hi, I am trying to find birth of Alfred Offord, or Ford, 1855, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire...it could be at St.Pauls Parish, Cheltenham, could be a sister, Sarah, born 1857..maybe parents, Thomas & Hannah... In the 1861 census, he is called Halfred Ford .Any help would be appreciated....Rob
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FreeBMD is showing this:
Births, March qtr 1855
Cheltenham district vol 6a, page 365
Ford, Alfred Henry
and
September qtr 1856
Cheltenham district vol 6a, page 364
Ford, Sarah Ann
Where does Offord fit in?
There are births for Alfred Offord:
1854, Send, Surrey
1855, Suffolk
1856, Suffolk
1856, West Ham
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According to Glos BMD http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/MainMenu.aspx Thomas Ford married Hannah Long at St Paul's Cheltenham in 1853.
There is also the birth of Alfred H in 1854 and Sarah A in 1856 both surname Ford, mother's maiden name Long.
(Alfred H is probably the Alfred Henry given in freeBMD as Q1 1855 - suggests he was born very late in 1854 so his registration was not indexed nationally until the start of the next year)
There is also the birth of Frank Ford in Cheltenham in 1861, also with the mmn Long, so possibly the same family.
Jane
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Hi, I am looking for birth of Alfred Offord, c 1854 Cheltenham, I found him in the 1881 census,
alfred Offer, 27, born 1854 Cheltenham, Lodger, bricklayer labourer,living at l Shortlands cottage,Fulham, Hammersmith. Lon.He married shortly after at Fulham- Mary Ellen Walsh...then had 2 kids at Fulham...then to NSW.Aust. in 1886...he stated on shipping record he was 33yrs. from Gloucester...bricklayer labourer. I have spent many years trying to find his birth and also 1871 and 1861 cens... info-so now I need to ask for Help....Thanks ....Rob
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Hi, his name is Alfred Thomas 0fford...born 1854...Rob
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Hi, his name is Alfred Thomas 0fford...born 1854...Rob
Hi the Alfred Thomas Offord who married Mary Ellen Walsh on the 1st August 1881 Church of St Peter, Hammersmith and Fulham occ Labourer residing 1, Shortlands Cottage, Church Lane, Hammersmith.
Both Full age
Grooms Father Alfred Thomas Offord occ ?Clerk
Brides Father William Walsh (Dead)
Keyboard86
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Thanks Keyboard, thats great having his parents name, and also Mary Ellen Walsh, any idea why I cannot find either of them in the census 1861-1871 ? I will have another look now I have their parents....I appreciate your help....Rob
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Hi Rob, as far as Mary Ellen is concerned on the marriage cert she was residing at 9, Hammersmith Terrace, in 1881 their is a Mary E Walsh aged 25 occ Domestic Servant for Francis A Wallis at that address, she was born Tunstall in Staffordshire.
If it helps the witnesses at the marriage were a William Noather or Neather and an Emily Felts.
Looks like Mary Ellen is with her widowed father who is aged 40 occ Potter in 1861 they are both born Walstanton, Staffordshire they are in Chesterton RG09/1921/106/1
Keyboard86
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Hi Rob, good news I think! The witness was a William Neather b c 1840 Cheltenham or Prestbury Gloucestershire, here is the 1861 with the parents of William Neather:-
1861 Census
Thomas Neather 66 occ Ag Lab b Bedford, Gloucs
Emma 53 b Stroud, Gloucs
Harriett 18 b Prestbury
ALFRED T UFFORD or afford 9 Grandson b Limerick, Ireland
Residing at Private House, Oakland Terrace, Prestbury, Cheltenham, Gloucs.
Census Ref RG09/1794/102/8
Keyboard86
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That's brilliant, keyboard86. That has to be him although presumably no one ever told him he was actually born in Ireland!
Don't know if this is already known, but Alfred Thomas Offord spent 4+ years in the army - shown as born 1852 Cheltenham, Gloucestershire so must surely be him. He enlisted 18/6/1870 at Westminster, Middlesex in the 76 Regiment of Foot and was discharged in Secunderabad, India on 22/1/1875 being found unfit for further service. This would explain why he can't be found on 1871 census as he was already in India. I won't go into further detail in case all this is known already. I was hoping to find next of kin details but nothing is shown.
I also noted that on NSW deaths when he died in 1929 his age is given as 78 suggesting a birth date of 1851.
So, whilst we now have a connection to his maternal grandparents unfortunately we don't yet know his mothers name nor where his father came from or when/where his parents married. I wonder if his father was also in the Army hence Alfred being born in Limerick.
Definitely a major step forward for Rob.
Annette
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Don't know if it's a simply a 'red herring' but the Neather's had a daughter Eliza bc.1831. In the Dec. quarter of 1850 at Wolstanton, Staffordshire an Eliza Neather married and one of the 4 possible grooms is an Albert (not Alfred) Offord. This is a year before AT's birth.......
Anyone have access to Staffordshire marriages?
I can't find any reference to an Albert Offord before the marriage.
Annette
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Wow, you wonderful people, thanks, On his death it stated his mother was Elz. no father mentioned....I only have lhr. on a library computer, so if I am slow getting back thats why.I will study what you have found and get back to you.....Rob
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Hi, I am so grateful you found my Alfred Thomas Offord, is there any chance of finding his birth in Ireland c 1852? also where on-line would I find the info re him being in India in the army?...Rob
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Alfred Thomas Offord's army service records can be found on FindMyPast - if you are not a subscriber you can purchase credits to view copies of the original documents. Costs £6.95 for 60 credits which are valid for 90 days.
Civil registration in Ireland didn't start until 1864 - however, I googled 'Births in Limerick' and the first on the list was limerick.rootsireland.ie - clicked on that which brings up a list of parishes. You have to register (which I did as it was free) and your first search is free. I just entered surname Offord, nothing else, and 2 baptisms came up - one of them is Alfred Thomas Offord b.1851 Co. Limerick. It costs 25 credits to be able to view it and checking it seems you can buy 25 credits for 5 Euros.
So, unfortunately it looks like you will have to spend a little money to proceed i.e. credits to view Alfred Thomas' baptism in Limerick, purchase of marriage certificate of parents (to ascertain details given for his father: age if given, confirmation that he was Albert (and not Alfred), occupation, likewise his fathers name/occupation, and credits for service records. However, you say you've been looking for ATO's birth for years so surely it will be worth it.
Let us know what you find out.
Annette
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Hi Annette, thanks for all the help ....Rob
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Hi Keyboard and Annette, I now have the birth of Alfred Offord ....born 22-7-1851 Bapt.30-10-1851, Father Alfred Offord, soldier, 63rd regt. Castle Barracks, Mother Elizabeth...Thanks for all your help with it....could anyone give me info re service record of Alfred Offord (father) of 63rd regt....just when he was born and where, would be great.... Rob :)
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Hi again Rob
The bad news is that there is no service record for a likely Alfred (or Albert) Offord - nor indeed for any Offord in the 63rd Regt. (which at that time was 63rd. (the West Suffolk) Regiment of Foot).
The possible good news is that I think I could have identified this individual but this all depends on you getting the marriage certificate of Albert Offord and Eliza Neather - Staffordshire BMD site confirms that these 2 did marry each other but it was a civil marriage (not in a church) so no-one can look this up for you. If his father is shown as a Robert Offord then I believe I've found your man and can understand why his christian name has caused such confusion.
A Robert Offord (bc.1800 Westhorpe, Suffolk) married a Susanna Goold 24/5/1825 Thorpe Morieux, Suffolk and they had 4 children there:
ALBAN bp.15/1/1826
Robert bp.28/10/1827, bur.22/2/1829
Robert bp.11/4/1830
Samuel bp.5/5/1832, bur.9/5/1832
Susannah bc.1796 bur.21/8/1832 Thorpe Morieux.
Robert remarried to a Frances Tracey, widow on 9/6/1835 Brettenham, Suffolk and in 1841 they are in Brettenham with Alban (transcribed as Albion) and Robert junr.
Only Robert junr. is with them in 1851 and I cannot find Alban anywhere - I think this Alban could be the Albert (?) who married Eliza Neather in 1850 in Staffordshire. I don't think he can have been in the army for very long.
Alban Offord married in Lancashire in 1858:
Alban Offord, 32, widower, Police Man, son of Robert Offord, married Elizabeth Stubbs 22/9/1858 Horwich Chapel, Lancashire (per Lan-opc).
Bearing in mind that 'Alban' is missing in 1851 Census and that there is no earlier marriage in that name prior to 1858 I think that this is the guy who married Eliza Neather in 1850 and who were subsequently in Ireland in 1851. I suspect Eliza may have died in Ireland and that Alban returned to the UK and and took their child to her parents who subsequently raised him.
I won't start listing all the census details for Alban from 1861 in case I'm wrong but suffice to say that he's a Policeman (on Railway) 1861 In Roade, Northamptonshire, 1871 (Watchman) and 1881 (Brewers Labourer) at Burton upon Trent, Staffordshire. His death is recorded in Burton upon Trent in 1921 aged 95! He had at least 5 more children with his 2nd. wife.
Robert senior is living with Alban (transcribed as Allan) and family in 1881 so left Suffolk in his old age.
Everything hinges on the marriage certificate of 'Albert' Offord in 1850 and that it states his father as Robert.
Fingers crossed.
Annette
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Hi Annette, thanks for so much info...I will check it out...I have found a marriage which I would like your opinon on - a Alfred Thomas Oyford - butcher- full age, widower,married 3l-8-1884 Brondesbury, Christ Church,Brent...to Hill Ireloor...groom's father - Thomas Joseph, wife's father - George Ireloor...on Aflred Thomas Offord (jnr) marriage 1-8-1881 to Mary Ellen Walsh at Fulham - he stated his father was Alfred Thomas Offord - clerk.I think he is my guy...the marriage is on Ancestry London. marriages...could you have a look, I could not decipher what Thomas Joseph (father)'s occupation was...or George Ireloor. I hope I am not imposing, but appreciate so much the help from Roots...Rob ???
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Hi again Annette, why would there be no mention of Alfred in 63rd regt. did they often miss people ? we know he was there, because of the birth on his son....there were no deaths for Alfred or Elizabeth in Ireland after 1864, when records started...so Eliza could have died after Alfred was born 1851...there were no other Offord mentioned in Limerick....it is not easy is it ? Have a great day ...Rob
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First, not all service records will have survived unfortunately. Alfred (or whatever is actual name was) seems to have been one of the unlucky ones. I've often come across individuals shown on the census as 'Army Pensioner' but cannot find them in the online service records.
As to the marriage of Alfred Thomas Oyford - the actual surname is Byford and his father was a Printer. His wife was Alice Treloar (not Ireloar). However, it is a very poor copy and was somewhat difficult to read although the name Byford is quite clear. Her fathers occupation looks like Pension Officer to me - found her with him in 1881 and he's recorded as Navy Pensioner (surname transcribed as Preloar).
Your Alfred Thomas Offord was, as has been established, brought up by his maternal grandparents - he may never have seen his father again and would only know what his grandparents told him which was probably not much. Such as, 'you were named after him' so as he was Alfred Thomas then he believed that was his father name. As to 'Clerk', I see this time and time again when I look at service records - men often shown as 'Clerk' when they enlisted and again when they were discharged. I don't know if it had the same meaning then as it does nowadays.
Civil registration did not begin in Ireland until 1864 so that's why you wouldn't find a death entry for Eliza Offord there in the 1850's.
Sorry to be so negative but unfortunately things are not as cut and dried as we would like them to be.
The one positive now is that a) we know AT's mother was Eliza Neather and b)that she married 'Albert' Offord in 1850. Obtaining that marriage certificate has to be a necessity to ascertain the name of his father and to hopefully clarify his own christian name which is Alfred when his son is born and when said son marries, Albert when he marries Eliza Neather - not being able to see the original records online we have no idea what they actually read only what whoever transcribed them thinks they read. Clearly there is some confusion over his christian name which is why I think it could actually be 'Alban' as previously mentioned since a) Alban missing from UK census in 1851 and b) was a widower when he remarried in 1858 although no previous marriage in that name.
Annette
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Hi Annette, thanks so much for the marriage info...you are great at decipering, don't know how you do it....I looked at it for so long, and could'nt work it out..I really appreciate your help, you are so kind...I agree, it is not easy...but it does get us hooked, this research.Have a great Xmas and happy and healthy New Year....Rob :-*
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Hi Annette, you were right, just checked the census...Alfred Thomas Byford was there 1891, married to Alice...I found the banns for their marriage, much easier to read...did not see that before...I thought I had found him, but no such luck...will get back to you, ..Rob :)
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Hi
I think this is my Family of Offord...Will have to double check but Alban b 1825 is the right name.
Alban Offord apparently went to Derbyshire
Father was Robert offord who was married twice firstly to Susanna Gould who possibly died in childbirth Then Frances 3 children Robert b 1827 d 1829 Alban b 1825 and Robert (as first Robert had died) 1830
Apparently Robert senior died of Gangrene caused by cutting toe nails with cut throat razor!!
Alban went to Derbyshire and his father followed when his wife Frances died.
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Hi all - coming to this late, but would like to thank everyone for helping me to solve a mystery concerning Alban Offord. I am a descendant from his son Robert Stubbs Offord. I had worked out Alban had joined the 63rd Suffolk as 'Albert Offord' and was searching for a first wife and possible child as there was a huge gap in his records from 1841 census to his marriage to Elizabeth Stubbs. I'm still wondering when he went into the 63rd. Anyway, thanks again.
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Tree on Ancestry has the 1861 Census for Alfred T UFFORD - aged 9 born Limerick, Ireland living with his Grandparents.
Gloucestershire, Prestbury
Thomas NEATHER - age transcribed as 56 (but reads 66) Ag. Lab. born Bedford, Bristol
Emma NEATHER - wife - 53 Laundress born Stroud
Harriet NEATHER - dau - 18 Laundress born Prestbury, Glos
Alfred T UFFORD - Gd Son - 9 Scholar, born Limerick Ireland.
1841 Census, Civil Parish, Prestbury
NEATHERY/NEATHER - on Ancestry
Thomas - 45
Emma - 30
Sarah - 12
Eliza - 10
Hannah - 8
Thomas - 7
Amelia - 4
William - 2