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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: hall and walsh on Saturday 20 October 12 07:36 BST (UK)
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A Joseph Hall of Toberhuney is listed on the 1840 freeholders list. Could someone please help me to interpret the reference?
There is a reference to $20 (pounds!) but no reference to land size. Does that mean he owned a house and no land?
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Hi,
I am not sure what the document you refer to is but I think that the spelling should be TOBERHEWNY in the District of Lurgan. In 1864 there is a Sarah Hall renting some land, offices (barns etc) and a house. The whole townland seems to belong to Lord Lurgan. http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearchSee
Regards
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hi,
I'm referring to the "list of registered freeholders in the county armagh portion of the lurgan union with their acres and valuation". It is on the lurgan-ancestry website
Joseph Hall of "Taberhewney" is listed, but with no acreage.
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Hi,
You should note that all Freeholders with a valuation of £50 and £20 do not have their Valuation or Acerage listed, it just seems to be those with a freehold valuation of £10.
Thats what the original list showed so I didnt omit any information from it when putting it on my website:
http://lurgan-ancestry.co.uk/index.php/registered-freeholders-in-the-armagh-portion-of-the-lurgan-union-for-1840/
Andy.
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No he didn't own his own land, he was a tenant of Charles Brownlow, and the property was worth £20
http://applications.proni.gov.uk/Freeholders/SearchResults.aspx?PageOffset=2
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Thanks for clarifying that for me Maura,
I havent ever looked at these record before, and coming from Oz the freeholders concept is still a bit fuzzy to me. If his land had a value of €20 would Joseph have been likely to be a farmer? He had about eight children, was about 50 years old, died in 1846. The other complication is that there seem to be a couple of Joseph Halls, and Derrycor is mentioned in another separate family document. could the same Joseph have leased land in both Toberhewny and Derrycor at the same time?
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Thank you, I am trying to make sense of the document, so that I can figure out what Joseph's occupation might have been. Have not used this resource before!
Hi,
You should note that all Freeholders with a valuation of £50 and £20 do not have their Valuation or Acerage listed, it just seems to be those with a freehold valuation of £10.
Thats what the original list showed so I didnt omit any information from it when putting it on my website:
http://lurgan-ancestry.co.uk/index.php/registered-freeholders-in-the-armagh-portion-of-the-lurgan-union-for-1840/
Andy.
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Do you have the names of his children? If so, his occupation would be given on their marriage certificates.
RosemaryJoan
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Yes thats a good point. Two of his children came to Australia. I assume the others stayed around Lurgan. I was lucky to find refs to the childrens baptisms, from 1817 to about 1830, just one line in a parish register. I also have a line in another register recording the parents marriage, but it just says joseph hall and ann atkinson and the date, nothing about parents. Were more detailed marriage records available from 1845, the date that i would expect the other children to marry? I havent found anything yet. Thanks for your interest.
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See here for details on marriage certificates- registration of Catholic marriages began in 1864 with non-Catholic marriages from 1845:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html
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You haven't named any of the children, but there is at least one marriage in Lurgan with father Joseph listed on
http://www.rootsireland.ie/
Annie Hall, father Joseph married Lurgan 1846 to Henry?
This is a pay per view site, but doesn't cost too much.
RosemaryJoan
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You haven't named any of the children, but there is at least one marriage in Lurgan with father Joseph listed on
http://www.rootsireland.ie/
Annie Hall, father Joseph married Lurgan 1846 to Henry?
This is a pay per view site, but doesn't cost too much.
RosemaryJoan
Civil registration index:
Anne Hall 1846 Lurgan registration district, volume 7, page 601
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FTBJ-VPB
Extracted marriage record:
Henry Hunter married 23 Apr.1846 ("0601,Shankill,Armagh") Anne Hall
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGF5-PC7
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Griffiths Valuation taken in 1865
Hunter Henry Knocknashane Shankill Armagh
and
Hall Edward Lurgan, Edward Street. Shankill Armagh
Hall Henry Lurgan, Greer's Court. Shankill Armagh
Hall James Lurgantarry Shankill Armagh
Hall Jane Lurgan, High Street Shankill Armagh
Hall John Monbrief Shankill Armagh
Hall John Tannaghmore South, Lurgan, Factory Lane Shankill Armagh
Hall Sarah Toberhewny Shankill Armagh
Might be of some help
RosemaryJoan
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Toberhewney and Tannaghmore townlands were side by side, just south of Lurgan
RosemaryJoan
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Thank you , i may be able to get the marriage details of last few siblings, which would be a great help,
Cathy
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That is just great, thank you!!
The surviving children of joseph and Anne were:
William john (who married in moira altho i cant find a reference to that, emigrated in 1848 or 9)
Joseph (emigrated in 1841, married in melbourne, down the road from where i live. Marriage reported in a belfast newspaper)
Anne 1822
Hamilton 1824 (i think he died in 46)
henry 1827
Thomas Robinson 1828.
There were at least a couple of hall lines in lurgan at the time, so I need to be careful that i dont get tangled up!
I really appreciate your help, :)
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Let us know if you get Anne's marriage to Henry Hunter and we will see if we can dig up a bit more info.
RosemaryJoan
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Hi,
In Oct 1846 Henry Hunter married Annie Hall in Shankill Church of Ireland, Lurgan.
Regards
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There seems to be a discrepancy in the dates. One record gives April and the other October.
RosemaryJoan
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Hi,
Sorry, my mistake. Aghadowey's April date is correct. I'm not sure if this is revelant but there is a marriage of a Hamilton Hall to Maria McKee in Portadown First Presbyterian Church but the date is June 1848.
Regards
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I'm not sure if this is revelant but there is a marriage of a Hamilton Hall to Maria McKee in Portadown First Presbyterian Church but the date is June 1848.
Marriage record here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGXF-W28
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGN6-LPT
Children also listed on same site
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Thank you, i think this hamilton might be the son of hugh hall rather than joseph hall. But i will look into it. I am very grateful for your help!
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Yippee! I think this must be my Ann Hall. She was baptised in Shankill church in Lurgan, and now it seems that she married there too.
Her father is Joseph Hall (definitely) and the first witness was William John (her brother my gg grandfather, who left for Melbourne a couple of years later).
The groom is Henry Hunter a saddler, whose father John Charles Hunter was a publican.
The second witness is H Francis Young.
Thank you Kingkerswell and RosemaryJoan this is just great. ;D :D :)
Joseph was a 'manufacturer' - might that mean he had some looms in his house?
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What address was given for Annie on her marriage certificate?
RosemaryJoan
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Taberheaney. Which must be Toberhewney, where the baptism records put them twenty years earlier.
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Now that I definitely have the siblings William John, Joseph and Annie Hall all in adulthood (hooray!) there are just another three to go: Hamilton, Henry and Thomas Robinson Hall. Another Hall family has a William (not William John) and a Thomas (not Thomas Robinson), so they aren't mine.... I can't find my guys in the IFHF site, nor in the family search.
I think the only thing I can do now is widen my search of post 1846 marriages to include other parishes that are reasonably close to shankill. Could someone please help me with the names of neighbouring C of I parishes from that period?
Cheers,
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http://www.ballynagarrick.net/ulsterancestors/Parishes%20of%20County%20Armagh.htm
The map at above will help you see where Parishes lay in relation to each other.
And the following should help with churches:
http://www.mcconville.org/main/genealogy/protestant.html
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A good source of information can also be found at
http://www.placenamesni.org/
You can view maps and 'drill down' into the selected area for the present day, 1850 and 1830.
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http://www.ballynagarrick.net/ulsterancestors/Parishes%20of%20County%20Armagh.htm
The map at above will help you see where Parishes lay in relation to each other.
And the following should help with churches:
http://www.mcconville.org/main/genealogy/protestant.html
Thanks so much for your response.
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A good source of information can also be found at
http://www.placenamesni.org/
You can view maps and 'drill down' into the selected area for the present day, 1850 and 1830.
Thank you - much appreciated.