RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: jmusher on Tuesday 06 November 12 21:53 GMT (UK)
-
Does anyone know if there are any surviving records for Wesleyan baptisms in the Marazion area prior to 1805? ...Looking for a birth that occured in either 1799 or 1800....
-
Have you tried www.cormwall-opc-database.org?
-
Thanks for your reply.
I have tried there, to no avail... nothing prior to 1805 for Marazion at all for my family or others. :(
-
A History of Methodism gives membership at Marazion of 78 members in 1821.
And a plan of the Penzance circuit of 1817 mentions Marazion amongst the 25 places.
When searching for Methodist baptisms, you need to search on the circuit name, and not the actual location.
My forebears lived at West Putford in North Devon, but were included in the Kilhampton (Cornwall) circuit! ;D
There don't appear to be any registers for Marazion dated before 1841?
See http://west-penwith.org.uk/wpenchp2.htm
The introduction page on that site says:
It should be noted that baptism in the Methodist churches was uncommon before 1815 and even in the 1830s many Wesleyans were baptised in the parish church. Prior to 1837, marriage was not permitted in any but the Anglican Church so you will need to look there.
-
Thanks again :)
I have my family members marriage at St Hilary, he was listed as 'not of this parish'. There is no baptism for him there.
I will try the Penzance circuit, thanks for the tip.
-
If you post the name(s) you are looking for, maybe one of us can help?
-
Thanks, I wasn't sure if I should do that as I did ask about this family member back in February, here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,579924.0.html
We got some great stuff, but unfortunately came to a dead end when trying to find his birth.
-
It would have been nice if you had mentioned the previous threads in the first place.
I see now that I have been duplicating the thoughts echoed in that previous thread.
-
I appreciate the time you have taken for my enquiry, and I am sorry that me not mentioning the thread complicated things. I only thought that there may have been other avenues to pursue.
Thanks again.
I know now that we will never find him.
-
If you go to the LDS library catalogue and search by placename it is often a good way to find what records are available.
Also via the Cornwall genuki site
The time period you want sounds like it is getting too early for wesleyan records unfortunately.
Don't be put off asking again the same Q, just give the links
I have some terrible roadblocks and every once and awhile report in hope a rellie or someone may wonder along...so always good to add the names.
Sadly when you look at the actual baptism books you find that there are pages completely detroyed so hence why you may not find what you want.
Bye
althea
-
An online tree has the baptism as
Date 30 June 1799
Location mylor, Cornwall, England
Description C of E baptism
Father William
?? proof
Bye
Althea
-
Dear Althea,
Thankyou for taking the time to look into my cause :)
The online tree you found may be mine.... I have that baptism listed on Ancestry as an 'alternate' birth so that I would remember the details so that I might investigate it again later.
I wish that the Mylor baptism was the one (and still hold some hope), it fits in so many ways, it would explain why 'Trefusis' was such an important name in the family with about 8 descendants and a house given the name (Mylor being where Trefusis manor/castle once stood).
However, in my previous discussion with Osprey he found what may be a marriage and several births to William there, with his sister Mary as witness :
baptisms
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=988187
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=988104
burial of first Mary - on my birthday!
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=842381
But there is a marriage in Mylor that could be the William you found with sister Mary as witness
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=449589
& William witnesses her marriage as well
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=449668
several baptisms to William & Harriet in the parish, he is noted as mariner.
Have a look at this site for transcribed records, Mylor isn't complete, baptisms from 1801 only .
http://v1.cornwall-opc-database.org/personsearchdb.php
:-\
The link again to our conversation:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,579924.20.html
The hard thing for us as descendants is that William came to Australia and drowned within 2 years. His son Thomas was a rather significant figure and sparked off a dynasty, there are hundreds of us now. Unfortunately even though he wrote extensively, Thomas modest as he was strove to leave himself out of the histories he presented :( !!!!
(The Bawden lectures http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/21870825?selectedversion=NBD3067269)
So there are hundreds of us and we are all in the same boat.
William had five other children who all died early, so no relatives back in Cornwall from that generation either!
I'd love to hear your thoughts on that extra Mylor information.
The historical significance of the name Trefusis is one of my main quests.
There is another family story that says something along the lines of "Mr Bawden was made a freed man of the House of Trefusis in 1450" although that year given is a vague memory of dads, he isnt at all sure, and other branches of the family I have contacted,havent been able to clarify this. It may indicate an earlier connection to Mylor than the possible one above.
Thanks Althea, I really appreciate your help.
Jodie
-
The Hugh Wallis middlename index has the following entries for Cornwall
Christenings/Births/Baptisms Date Name
15 Feb 1768 Wm. Trefusis REICHENBERG Christening
14 Aug 1807 Richard Trefusis PELLOWE Christening
26 Aug 1833 Robert Trefusis VYVYAN Christening
3 Jul 1835 John Trefusis PUNNETT Christening
18 Oct 1844 Sydney Trefusis Godolphin PROUT Christening
10 Apr 1853 John Trefusis PAYNTER Christening
14 Jan 1859 Francis Trefusis PELMEAR Christening
22 Sep 1861 Charles Henry Trefusis PELMEAR Christening
4 Sep 1863 Sydney Trefusis JAMES Christening
Personaly I would trust that the family story has some relevance and shouldn't be ignored!!
Its just what on earth happended in the interim years.
Have you done much looking at wills around the area for possible mentions
Did anything come from trying to track who EDMOND BAWDEN could be..eg father, brother or no relation
Bye
Althea
-
Hi Althea,
:)
A middlename index! I didnt know it existed.
I have not done any searching of wills as I dont know where to look or what to look for specifically.
We do know that William's fathers name was also William, as William had to name his father for the immigration application. It lists his father as a miner, and resident of Marazion (at the time of application at least, the Bawdens have a habit of moving around a lot -for instance William the younger was living in Wales when his son Thomas was born).
As for Edmond, I did not ever find anything conclusive, not even sure that it is not Edward (?) judging from the handwriting.
I do have one other thing which connects family to Marazion, Thomas as an adult in Australia 'remembered his yound cousin' John Hosking (who had also come to Australia) when searching for a person to work on a project he was in charge of. John was born of an Elizabeth or Betsey Bawden of Marazion. I cannot find a definite connection between Elizabeth/Betsey and William, but I am fairly sure that they were not brother and sister, as in the obit for her husband, she is listed as the fouth child of EDWARD Bawden and Mary James of St Hilary (rather than of William the elder). I did some checking on the possibility that the Edward may be the inconclusive signature seen earlier, but the handwriting is significantly different. I searhed the database and found Elizabeth and her siblings, no William amongst them.
Did you see the sample handwriting listing the place of Baptism? Do you have any thoughts on that?
Thanks again !
Jodie
-
the index to the wills held by Cornwall Record Office is online
http://crocat.cornwall.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=Search.tcl
If you find anything of interest, you then order a copy from the record office. I've had a quick look and nothing that seems to help.
http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=14713
What was the name of Elizabeth's husband? This marriage looks a possible
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=598844
Cousin might not mean first cousin, the relationship could have been a further generation back or more.
-
Hi Osprey! :)
Thanks for the link, I'll take a long look when the little one is asleep.
That marriage you found is definitely the one, I know Johns fathers name was Samuel. He died very young, she remarried and moved back to Cornwall (St Ives, specifically, from where they had been living in Ashburton, Devon).
Yes, I agree that 'cousin' may have been used to describe any relative of a similar age, so it may be hard to find the connection. I did follow a paper trail with Elizabeth, looking at the original documents available online for St Hilary, hoping that out William may have witnessed a marriage there somewhere. Nothing conclusive, but I did find something along the lines of (this is off the top of my head, I dont have the available files at the moment).... The witness to Betseys parents was an Ann Bawden, I found a possible marriage for Ann, and a William was witness to that! Very convoluted, and not really very helpful! ;D
Anyhow, glad to have your help again, thanks!
Jodie
Here is a link to the obituary for Williams son Thomas. Totally irrelevant to my search, but really quite something nontheless. How did one man manage all this?
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/61317643?
-
I had a rather long look at the index, and found nothing either.
:/
Anywhere else I can look???
-
that's some tribute!
As for the wills, no, sorry they're all at the record office apart from those for people leaving property in more than one county which are at the National Archives. Doubt that's likely in this case.
I'll have a look at Elizabeth's family this morning. Sometimes you have to go sideways in order to go further back!
:D
-
any idea when John was born? There's a lot of Hoskings in the area.
Is this the family in 1841?
Relubbus Lane, St Hilary HO107/144/3 folio 23 pg 10
Saml Hosking 25 copper miner
Elizth 20
Samuel 3
Elizth 1 12
Mary 3 months
Ann Bawden 15 female servant
-
right, got them now, I'd forgotten about your mention of Devon. I can see the remarried Elizabeth in Perranuthnoe in 1861 and this looks to be her 2nd marriage
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=778302
Haven't found a baptism for her as yet, another sign that the family was non-conformist?
Her burial in Perranuthnoe
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1507237
Can't see the family in St Ives, they're either in Perranuthnoe on the census or back in Relubbus Highway, St Hilary in 1871. There is another Elizabeth Oliver of around the same age, born in Perranzabuloe, married to Henry and living in St Ive, which isn't the same place as St Ives.
Think this may be the burial of Elizabeth's father John
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1007053
and that of her mother
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1007081
-
I should have checked the coverage, Ludgvan doesn't seem to have been transcribed in full, so from FamilySearch
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JQGV-WQX - register shows John as tinner, tying in with marriage
This may be John's baptism
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JW7Q-F45
and I wondered about this one
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NLVH-RM9
no occupation on register to help
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11093-95288-86?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-VQ3:n28753771
:-\
-
right, got them now, I'd forgotten about your mention of Devon. I can see the remarried Elizabeth in Perranuthnoe in 1861 and this looks to be her 2nd marriage
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=778302
Haven't found a baptism for her as yet, another sign that the family was non-conformist?
Her burial in Perranuthnoe
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1507237
Can't see the family in St Ives, they're either in Perranuthnoe on the census or back in Relubbus Highway, St Hilary in 1871. There is another Elizabeth Oliver of around the same age, born in Perranzabuloe, married to Henry and living in St Ive, which isn't the same place as St Ives.
Think this may be the burial of Elizabeth's father John
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1007053
and that of her mother
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1007081
Hi Osprey,
Thanks for digging! I dont know that Elizabeths father was John!!! Other distant family came up with this:
http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/localities.britisles.england.con.general/3781.3788/mb.ashx
I wonder what her source was. I have been unable to contact the author of this, although I have found a lot of her research for the Hosking family online.
I have been looking for an Edward all along....
By looking at the replies to this post, I see that research from other Hosking relatives suggests that Samuel Hoskings parents were Samuel Hosking and Ann Bawden. For goodness sake, how terribly confusing!!! Lots and lots of connections between Bawdens and Hoskings.
That occupation of Sawyer for Mr Oliver fits beautifully. I know that he was a "master builder" or similar and that the Hosking family, all schoolmasters, thought she was marrying beneath herself the second time (I have a presentation given to a historical society by a descendant of John Hosking back in the 60s). So if Sawyer translates to carpenter -as I believe it does, then we have a definite hit there!
Back when I thought I was looking for an Edward... I found this which I thought was the original image for our Elizabeths birth. Using the research of the distant family member listed above as a guide, The date was 16 January 1814.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-13194-125850-60?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-V2K:n405888829
I wonder if there is anything to it, like her father dying and the mother marrying a brother. With no source, I suppose it doesn't really hold water, and needs to be discounted.
I found the marriage of William Bawden and Ann of Breage that you mention, he is listed as a Tinner, so the basic occupation fits... I will have a look for their other children, and see if I can find anything more conclusive.
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=907992
Family search has crashed here for some reason, so I hope the links I have posted work.
-
I gave you Elizabeth's marriage, her father's name is on there, John, a miner. Samuel Hosking, like his father, was a blacksmith, again on the marriage record, and he is shows as a pauper on the 1851 census, so I think marrying beneath herself is a bit strong. Where are you getting this info from? You'd be better off looking at contemporary records.
This is a transcription of Samuel's baptism
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1331401
You can access a scan of some original records here
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/show#uri=http://www.familysearch.org/searchapi/search/collection/1769414
Sam's baptism in St Hilary, abode noted as Goldsithney in the parish of Perranuthnoe
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-13194-128313-80?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-V2K:n405888829
John was not a master builder, he shows up on the census as a mine carpenter
1861 Goldsithney RG9/15941 folio 87 pg 23
John Oliver head mar 38 mine carpenter & sawyer b. Newlyn East
Elizabeth wife 42 b. Ludgvan
William Hosking son-in-law 18 copper, tin & lead miner b. Perranuthnoe
John Hosking son-in-law 14 copper, tin & lead miner b. Devonshire, Ashburton
John Oliver son 10 b. Newlyn East
James Oliver son 7 b. Newlyn East
son-in-law was used at that time as we would now use step-son
Hosking family in 1851
Great Bridge, Ashburton HO107/1871 folio 331 pg 36
Samuel Hosking head mar 36 (pauper) blacksmith b. Cornwall, St Perran
Elizabeth wife 34 b. Ludgvan
Samuel son 13 b. Ludgvan
Elizabeth Ann dau 11 b. St Perran
Mary dau 10 b. St Hillary
William son 8 b. Devon, Ashburton
John son 4 b. Ashburton
The baptism you have for Elizabeth is too early. I haven't checked relationships, but you need to remember that Hosking is a very common name in the area, and the mother wouldn't have married her brother-in-law, it was illegal and didn't become legal until 1905 or thereabouts.
Marriage for Samuel Hosking & Ann Bawden
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=553001
Pretty sure I didn't mention a marriage in Breage for William & Ann. I suspect it is this one
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=343903
The register entry giving William as junior suggests his father was called William as well. Also, the register shows William as a tinner.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11093-96647-81?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-VQF:n484473889
Hope some of this helps.
-
Thanks for clarifying things for me. The info I had was a transcript of a lecture given by an descendant of John Hosking to a historical society in the 1960's. She was elderly, and these were the memories of her conversations with her father. No doubt the stories got a bit skewed over time.
I dont know how I managed to come up with Breage for that marriage ::) . William Bawden and Ann Hoskin (!)
Your research has cleared up a lot of wrongs turns, thankyou.
The marriage for Samuel Hosking and Ann Bawden lists William Bawden as a witness.
Tantalising possibility that this is our Williams father and Anns father as well... maybe? I wonder could this be where the main connection is rather than with Elizabeth/Betsey?
I wonder if he was given a Wesleyan Baptism later, as the immigration application says that his baptism was "certified 5 April 1800" as per our conversation with krisesjoint back in February:
Hi Jodie and Osprey,
Application for Assisted travel lists
William BAWDEN of Marizon [sic] Cornwall, the son of William BAWDEN of the same place, Mine Agent.
William BAWDEN was aged 39 years in April 1838 baptism certified 5 Apr 1800 St :-\ (Image included, and moved to general board for viewing)
Henry FRANCIS, Paul HANCOCK and William CRAPP (all of Wheal Virgin) certified to him being of very good Character.
Calling Engineer
His health was very good,
Religion Wesleyan,
He could read and write
Mary H BAWDEN aged 40 years on the 23 July 1838, a native of Marizon, [sic] daughter of John and Martha WILLIAMS of St Hillary, farmer
Calling - always assisted with her parents farm
baptisms certified 12 Aug 1798 by Thos [BISSIN]? Vicar
no certificate of character
health good
Religion C of E
Could read and write
Child Thomas aged 6 years on the 24 Oct 1838 (no certificate)
Australian Town and Country Journal 27 Feb 1897, list Thomas as from Pembrokeshire
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/71290453
Cheers Kris :)
-
that's certainly a possible relationship, or William & Ann could be brother and sister or cousins.
Copy of the register entry here
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22653-50224-80?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-VLX:2010891349
It may be the same signature as as on the marriage in 1792. It's not the same as the witness William Bawden from the 1792 marriage.
There's no knowing if William was baptised in the C of E as a baby. It wouldn't have stopped him becoming a Methodist later. One set of my gggrandparents were both baptised in the C of E, so I was a bit thrown by their burials being in unconsecrated ground, but it would seem they became Methodists at some stage, rather than being brought up in the denomination.
Perranuthnoe does seem to be a likely area. There are certainly Bawdens in the parish and if you search for the surname Bawden in 'Any Text' and Perranuthnoe in 'Title', you'll see that the record office have various documents includung some wills.
http://crocat.cornwall.gov.uk/DServe/searchpage.htm
possible family in 1841 census
Perranuthnoe HO107/143/11 folio 26 pg 21
Samuel Wearn 25 mason
Ann Wearn 25
William Bawden 70 ind
Ann Bawden 70 ind
Edward Bawden 15 mason
all born in county
-
have a look at this marriage record for an Edward Bawden in Breage in 1825. I'm pretty sure it's the the same person as witnesses William's marriage in 1821, and looks like William returned the favour.
;)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11785-114403-61?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-JS2:487895306
-
You are an absolute legend Osprey!!! :D
I have seen the record now, it looks very possible doesnt it?
Interestingly, there is a Bawden/Austin connection in the family that I know about...
Could we (you) maybe.... just maybe have found them??? (!!!)
-
well, we've found the witness is as much as I'd say for the moment, but it may be some light at the end of the tunnel.....
this is the only likely baptism I can see to the couple, no further clues on register
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1592340
The 1841 entry for Edward with William & Ann Bawden is a possible match for this Edward, but I haven't found any signs as yet of Edward senior or his wife, Elizabeth.
:-\
-
Been offline for a few days...
we are a tricky bunch to track aren't we?
I am absolutely thrilled to get anywhere at all, so finding the witness is very exciting :)
-
I've been having another look around for Edward. If you have a llok at his marriage record, he also witnesses the first marriage on the double page, that of Peter James & Mary Bonds. Not sure how much help that is, but it might come in handy at some stage.
I think he may have died young, this burial 27/11/1826
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11785-108294-31?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-JM6:n1315603921
and a month later, son Edward was buried
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11785-104885-26?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-JM6:n1315603921
The abode matches that given on the baptism
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1592340
This might be his widow remarrying
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=568046
her baptism
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NLV4-HDM
burial of her father
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1481277
her mother's remarriage
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=821387
Think Christopher Richards, the witness, may be Mary's brother.
1851 census Trehunest, Quethiock HO107/1900 folio 533/534 pgs 23/24
John Harry head mar 47 lead miner b. St Ellery
Elizabeth wife 46 b. St Winger
John son 22 lead miner b. Breage
Richard son 18 lead miner b. Breage
Elizabeth Ann dau 17 engaged in mine work b. Breage
James son 12 engaged in mine work b. Breage
Mary Jane dau 8 b. Perran
Alice dau 4 b. St Just
Mary Polkinhorne mother-in-law 73 miner's wife b. Winger
So Edward's line doesn't look to go any further.
:'(
Suspect John's birthplace is St Hilary and Elizabeth's and her mother's Gwinear. Birthplaces of children show how miners moved for work.
-
Hi Osprey,
You are right, that is definitely a match for the witness of Peter James & Mary Bonds.
The other info is interesting, shame we cant follow them any further with Edwards line. If only I could find out if William had any siblings who survived to produce children. But that is hard to discover without his birth I suppose, a nice catch 22.
Going back to William again.... any further clues one year later as to what that undecipherable place of baptism listed may be?
It must mean SOMETHING... The amount that miners traveled does complicate things doesn't it?
Thanks again :)
-
I don't think it's a place, more likely a person as it says "person certifying". and it looks like Saml Weane. Have a look at the household from 1841 I gave you for William & Ann Bawden, there's a Samuel Wearne there.
;)
-
For goodness sake! I did wonder about that whole 'person certifying' bit.... about a dozen people have tried to read that Osprey, and you work it out! I no longer have to try to work out where 'else' they were.
But.... this is the clincher isnt it? Samuel Weane appearing again means that we have them DOESN'T IT?? :o
THIS IS EVIDENCE!!!!
Whooop!
Don't tell me not to get too excited....please!
:D
-
just found this hopefully mistrancribed marriage
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NFGQ-MV9
should be on my way to work, but this is more fun!
:D
-
well, the marriage says Simon, but have a look at the first witness!
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11093-96939-62?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-VQP:n1648977724
Pretty sure that this is them at long last!
;D :D
-
I am crying... :)
I cant believe it. So many of us have tried for so long, decades and decades.
Thankyou.
I cant believe it. I am so happy!
-
haven't got time to check through the census entries just now, but in 1851 and 1861, the Wearnes have Bawdens lodging with them, both born Ludgvan like Ann , there's a Thomas born 1837+/- 1 and and an Edward born 1841+/- 1. So finding the parents of these boys could be the next step. Don't think baptisms would be my first point of call as they're likely to be non-conformist.
Aaargh, just had a quick look for the 2 boys and I'd checked those census entries before without joining the dots. Parents are John & Elizabeth who both die between 1841 & 1851, so no place of birth on census.
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1007053
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1007081
-
1851 census:
HO107, Piece 1918, Folio 32, Page 26
Goldsithney, Perranuthnoe
Warne, Simon Head M 37 Master Mason and Constable b St Kew
Warne, Ann Wife F 38 Ludgvan
Hams, William Lodger M 19 Apprentice b St Kew
Bawden, Thomas Lodger M 14 Apprentice b Ludgvan
Not finding Edward in 1851 (yet!), but there is this from 1861:
Reference RG09, 1591, 78, 5
Goldsithney, Perranuthnoe
Warne, Simon Head M 47 Master Mason Employing 4 men b St Kew
Warne, Ann Wife F 48 Ludgvan
Bawden, Edward Nephew M 20 Mason b Ludgvan
-
Aaargh, just had a quick look for the 2 boys and I'd checked those census entries before without joining the dots. Parents are John & Elizabeth who both die between 1841 & 1851, so no place of birth on census.
More than 1 Edward Bawden in Ludgvan, born 1841!!
This looks like the family:
HO107, Piece 142, Book 11, Folio 35, Page 4
Crowlas, Ludgvan
Bawden, John M 47 Miner
Bawden, Elizabeth F 47
Bawden, Mary F 14
Bawden, William M 8
Bawden, Grace F 6
Bawden, Thomas M 5
Bawden, Edward M 1
-
yes, those are the entries I was thinking of. Edward is in the workhouse in Madron in 1851. The other edward doesn't have a brother Thomas and I don't think he's on a census after 1841.
-
yes, those are the entries I was thinking of. The other Edward on the 1841 census doesn't seem to appear on any later census. There's a possible for the Edward from 1861 in the workhouse in Madron in 1851, not surprising as both of his parents died.
-
I am taking my time to go though everything you have written to make sure I understand it all, and dont miss anything important.
Looking at the 1841 census gives a birth date of about 1771 for Williams father, as you said his father was probably a William too (as he was listed as junior on his marriage) what do you think of this entry?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JSMZ-VH2
I also note that Samuel and Simon appear to be born 2 years apart judging from the two different census -maybe brothers? Both marrying an Ann Bawden though... Notably the Anns appear to be born three years apart as well. So definitely family of some description, but not the same people. (Of course I know that census data was very heavily rounded, but Simon is unlikely to be Samuel...right?)
-
More than 1 Edward Bawden in Ludgvan, born 1841!!
This looks like the family:
HO107, Piece 142, Book 11, Folio 35, Page 4
Crowlas, Ludgvan
Bawden, John M 47 Miner
Bawden, Elizabeth F 47
Bawden, Mary F 14
Bawden, William M 8
Bawden, Grace F 6
Bawden, Thomas M 5
Bawden, Edward M 1
yes, those are the entries I was thinking of. Edward is in the workhouse in Madron in 1851. The other edward doesn't have a brother Thomas and I don't think he's on a census after 1841.
That household HAS to be family. Most (actually all) of those names have reappeared in the family a number of times.
-
Hi again KGarrad! Thank very much you for your help :)
-
Looking at the Marriage record for William Bawden and Ann Hoskin in 1792, I see that Ann Hoskin's witness (maybe father?) signs Anthony Hosking (with a G) and the Bawdens most assuredly sign with an Bawden rather than Bowden. Brilliant!
On the facing page I came across this marriage For John Rowe and Elizabeth Waters at Perranuthnoe, with William Bawden senior and junior as Witnesses. No idea if it might help, but here it is:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11093-96647-81?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-VQF:n484473889
-
I think I may have found why The two William Bawden's are witnesses on the above marriage:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NFGQ-ZP5
Connecting the dots, if I am right, this is our William's grandfather.
Am I assuming too much? All the dots seem to connect beautifully.
Searching for William Bawden and Mary Rowe's children:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/baptisms/index.php?year_from=1764&year_to=1795&parish=Perranuthnoe&forename1=&surname1=Bawden&forename2=William&forename3=Mary&t=baptisms&bf=Search
look at the names!
proceeding with excited caution...
Looking at the 1841 Census with Samuel Wearn, I cant help but notice that there are Rowes only 2 entries above...
Speaking of Wearne/Warne/Wearn, I was taking a look at the family tree and noticed that Williams grandaughter Daisy Bawden's middle name is Warne. Most of her siblings (all Australian) were named for significant relatives and place names from Cornwall. That for me is the final clincher (if I needed one!)
-
Just a small note of caution! ;D
Ages of adults (15+) on the 1841 census were (supposed to be) rounded down to a multiple of 5 years!!
So someone who has been enumerated as 30 years of age, could be aged between 30 and 34.
The enumerator of the Bawden family I found didn't do that, but it's as well to remember that others might have. ;D ::)
-
Just a small note of caution! ;D
Ages of adults (15+) on the 1841 census were (supposed to be) rounded down to a multiple of 5 years!!
So someone who has been enumerated as 30 years of age, could be aged between 30 and 34.
The enumerator of the Bawden family I found didn't do that, but it's as well to remember that others might have. ;D ::)
Got it, thanks! That is really useful to know. I will take another look at the census data I have with that in mind :)
-
well, the marriage says Simon, but have a look at the first witness!
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11093-96939-62?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-VQP:n1648977724
Pretty sure that this is them at long last!
;D :D
Take a look at this birth! Could this possibly be Williams sister... Ann who later goes on to marry Simon Wearn???
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1694534
and see the other baptisms to William and Ann; there are those names!
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/baptisms/index.php?year_from=1785&year_to=1815&parish=Perranuthnoe&forename1=&surname1=Bawden&forename2=William&forename3=Ann&t=baptisms&soundex=1&bf=Search
-
no, that Ann would be much too old to be enumerated as 25 in 1841. That gives a date of birth of between 1811 and 1816. 1841 census is the only one to have taken place in June.
I'm pretty sure that Simon/Samuel is the same person. Samuel only appears on the 1841 census, he's Simon after that.
Another word of caution apart from ages in 1841 is spelling of surnames. Don't read anything much into it. Names were spelled as clerks of the church or civil spelt them. Sometimes the signature doesn't match.
-
ok thanks Osprey. Not our Ann then.
So, do you think perhaps he was baptised one name but known as another? I know that happens (my sister has a different name on her birth certificate, going to make a pretty puzzle for a genealogist some day).
-
the 1841 may just be an enumerator's error. Don't read too much into finding Rowes, it's a very common name in that part of Cornwall.
baptism for daughter of John & Elizabeth
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1696106
& her marriage witnessed by Simon
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=778308
-
& her marriage witnessed by Simon
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=778308
Osprey, the other Witness John Williams may be William Bawden's father in law (father of Mary Hosking Williams was named John) although I am not sure of his birth date, he may be too young, or it may possibly be Mary's brother? Interesting anyhow.
-
I doubt that it's the same John Williams, father of Ann would be born what? 1760s? 1770s? It's unlikely! Again, another common name.
;)
-
yes, I know, I just get a bit over excited I guess!
::)
-
The children of William Bawden and Mary Rowe have virtually the same names as the children of William Bawden and Mary Hosking, (William and William junior), not able to place John.
Am I on the right track do you think with these two? Do you think I am safe to say that William Bawden and Mary Hoskin(g) were our Williams parents? I am virtually certain that Mary Rowe is the mother of the William who married Mary Hoskin(g) The dates seem to fit pretty well with the ages given 1841 census.
Time to sleep.... Ill get back onto it tomorrow.
Thanks so much for all your help!
UPDATE:
I think I am getting it sorted now, starting to catch up to where you have been for days. I am finding it hard to keep it all together, I only have about 2 hours a day to work on this, so I get a bit tangled up in names! Sorry if I am frustrating by missing the obvious. ::) I see where we are headed now.
Am I right to connect the dots that John, father of Edward and Thomas is the right age and occupation to (possibly) be the same John who is father of Elizabeth/Betsey who married Samuel Hosking?
-
that's the theory I was working on back in replies 19 & 20 - links to her marriage and baptism are there.
It could be that John & William were cousins rather than brothers. It's not unheard of at this period for a male of a younger generation to be referred to as nephew, although he's not a nephew as we would look at it now. This could be John's baptism
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1694444
:-\
-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J39P-FQ2
Not sure if we have covered this already ( I can't find it in the thread), but this looks to be Ann Bawden's baptism (wife of Simon/Samuel. Time frame and location is right, child of William and Ann. Not out of the question that William Bawden and Ann Hosking are her parents, I suppose, though Ann would have been 44, and the location is Ludgvan, and we know the family was mostly in Perranuthnoe. William and Ann Hosking did have two sons called William from what I can tell our William born 1798, and another William born 1780. Of course William and Ann living with Ann and Simon Samuel is pretty compelling though....right? So probably parents?
Would two Williams mean that the earlier one likely died?
Possible contender for another son of William Bawden and Mary Rowe:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1694131
could be John senior, but as he would only have been 18 when John junior was born this may be unlikely -though of course, who is to say that he was baptised immediately? What do you think Osprey?
Possible contenders for William Bawden husband of Mary Rowe:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/baptisms/index.php?year_from=1730&year_to=1746&parish=Perranuthnoe&forename1=William&surname1=Bowden&forename2=&forename3=&t=baptisms&soundex=1&nearby=1&bf=Search
Note the 1744 Birth; mother named Grace, though the others may be just as likely (more Anns)
Spelling notwithstanding, his marriage states that he is 'of Breage". There was another birth of a William Bawden in 1747 at St Hilary, which I have discounted mostly because of the location, but also if it were him, he would have only been 19 when married. Not impossible, bit not as likely (?) as being married in his 20's.
I have gone back to this very earliest one, as I am starting to wonder if the main connection between the Bawdens and Hoskings could be through Samuel Hosking's mother (Ann Bawden) than his wife Bestey/Elizabeth Bawden
Found a likely birth for Anne Bawden wife of Samuel:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1694418
Parents William Bawden and Mary (Rowe??), Mary Rowe would have been 44. Its late but not out of the question.
If all of my suppositions above are right I think I have tied all the threads together Hosking/Wearne/Bawden/Rowe! With the exception of John I suppose, but then, Betsey's father may not need to fit as her husbands mother does. Please let me know if you see any major holes in my theories.
Any earlier ancestors to William (prior to William/Mary Rowe) seem to be spelled Boden. Is that likely?
-
Possible baptisms for William (husband of Mary Rowe)
All are pretty much equal, all are family names. Still leaning towards son of William and Grace, meaning he was married at 23, but cant see why son of Edward and Ann wouldn't be just as likely, married at 28. The earliest, son of Thomas and Ann is probably the least likely just because he would have been a bit older (34) when married. Don't know if my reasoning is right. This one is not likely to be resolved.
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/baptisms/index.php?year_from=1733&year_to=1744&parish=Breage&forename1=William&surname1=Bawden&forename2=&forename3=&limit=50&t=baptisms&soundex=1&nearby=1&bf=Search
Been trying again to find John and John junior in the tree, have found nothing new, and am starting to lean further towards my earlier supposition that as his daughters husbands mother (phew) Anne Bawden is a possible/probably fit, I may not need to.
-
I've said it before but I'll repeat it, stop worrying about spelling! Names were recorded as the clerk recording them thought they should be spelt.
::)
Have a look at this parish map and you'll see that the parishes we've been talking about are along Mount's Bay, and people could use a neighbouring parish church if it was nearer. My Sithney lot lived on the edge of the parish, so events are recorded in the parish church normally, but sometimes in the church in Helston which you can see from where they lived in Sithney, though it is up a steep hill.
http://www.cornwall-opc.org/MAPS/parish_map.pdf
-
..you wont have to tell me a third time ::)
Thank you very very VERY much for all of the assistance you have given me Osprey :) I am feeling pretty confident that we have the truth, and not just what 'fits', I am so thrilled. Can't wait to tell the family! (trying to explain it is going to be interesting!)
-
looking like it's coming together, doesn't it? So glad we got somewhere at last!
:D :D
-
coming together is right!
We have achieved more than I could possibly have imagined. Those family names (Edward, Grace, Thomas William etc) are repeated again and again in the area right back into the 1600's, and I have found what looks like the common origin for John Bawden and William Bawden's families a looong way back.
I cannot thank you enough for the help you have given me Osprey.
When the Bawden Books were lost in a fire, we lost much of our history.
People actually flew to the UK to try to work this out, to no avail, but NOW WE HAVE IT!
thankyou thankyou THANKYOU !
-
my pleasure!
;D
-
Hi Osprey :)
Started asking a question but sorted it out, hence the empty update! ::)
Happy Christmas! :D
-
Season's greetings to you as well and let's hope for more breakthroughs next year!
:D
-
Hello Osprey,
I am taking up the search again, and if you are still about I'd love your input.
We made a tremendous breakthrough last December, and I've been resting on my (our) laurels.
Here is what I am hoping to do...
I mentioned in the past my hope to find the reputed connection to Trefusis house or Castle in Mylor. The first ancestor of mine to arrive in Australia named his home Trefusis, and the story went that Mr Bawden was made a freed man of the house of Trefusis in 1450 (or thereabouts). I would really love to find something more substantial.
My Bawden family has a very large number of Hosking marriages in it, and so I am wondering if this Bawden/Trefusis connection might be mine:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SP86-55G
I doubt I will ever find a reference to the 'freed man' bit (1450 is pretty early...) but if I could connect us in any way to the Trefusis name, I would be very happy, thus, confirming or denying the above marriage as part of my tree would be fantastic.
The earliest certain relationship I have in my tree (as certain as I can be)
is here:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=906921
Where an Edward Boden marries Elizabeth Hosken in 1718
This may be his birth:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1186489
I have found an earlier marriage which may be his parents, but I'm not quite as certain of this. It is here:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=909913
The Trefusis marriage is 70 years before my earliest confirmed relationship. Am I biting off too much?
Do you have any thoughts on how I might proceed?
Thanks, and hope all has been well with you this year :)
-
Welcome back!
you'll see this in other places on this & other family history sites, work from what you know. You have another common name there in Hosken & don't discount Hosking or anything similar.
I wouldn't trust someone else's research, including a pedigree like that one from the LDS site. You need to go one step at a time and you may find you can only get back as far as the Civil War when there's often gaps in the records.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'freedman' around 1450. It sounds like some sort of slavery. Feudalism had been in decline for some time by then. The Black Death of 1349 more or less put paid to it, a smaller population meant people could sell their labour to a higher bidder. Under feudalism, a freeman paid a fixed money rent for his land while villeins held their land in return for various services to the lord of the manor, although some held their land under a mixture of rent and services.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENUKI/1997-07/0868060325
You can search the Cornwall Record Office online catalogue for references to Trefusis House
http://crocat.cornwall.gov.uk/DServe/searchpage.htm
there's one in Mylor and one in Redruth
-
Hi Osprey :D,
Thanks for your reply.
Hosking/Hosken is very common in the family, with links still present today, the family appears again and again.
The freedman or freeman of the House of Trefusis may have the wrong date attached. My father isn't sure of the date, but thought that might be it, he is remembering a conversation with his father who read it in the "Bawden Books" presumably a family History -now lost.
So, in reality it could have been earlier.
I cannot find much on the Trefusis house of Redruth except that it existed with a draft lease from 1897.
Ill go back to my earliest confirmed Bawden/Boden and keep digging. We are getting very close to the Civil War though as you said, which may be why I haven't been able to find any more.
I dont know if I will ever find the actual Trefusis connection, it is all so tenuous!
Thanks again.
-
Hi Osprey,
Could you please give me your opinion on this? I am trying to work out whether these might all be the same family. The repitition of the name John in the children might be a bit over the top? Not sure whether two children from the same family (presumably twins?) would be baptised one day after each other? Also wondering if you know if Willmi is a variant of William?
Thanks,
Jodie
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3ABowden~%20%2Bbirth_place%3A%22wendron%2C%20cornwall%2C%20England%22%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1580-1650~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Awillmi~%20%2Bfather_surname%3Abowden~
-
Firstly, don't confuse dates of baptism with dates of birth, or assume that baptisms happened soon after birth!
Many families had children baptised in batches! ::)
Secondly, I think there are some transcription problems here?
I double-checked with Cornwall-OPC-database. Only these baptisms show:
24th June 1605 Johonis Bowden, father Willimi
17th August 1606 Johones Bowden, father Willmi
30th March 1608 Michaell Bowdin, father Willimi
18th November 1610 Benedictus Bowden, father Willmi
5th July 1612 Johones Bawden, father Willmi
-
Hi KGarrad! Great to hear from you :)
I posted a reply earlier but I can't see it -so who knows what happened there.
Its possible that these may be siblings, Im just checking further to see if I can discount or add any of them. It would be handy if a mother was listed ::)
I wonder about this 1603 Marriage:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11625-27501-60?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-K42:n175019224
The opc transcriber wrote Baldwin, but it definitely says Bawden. And Wm surely is as good for Willimi as it is for William -right?
-
I wonder about this 1603 Marriage:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11625-27501-60?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-K42:n175019224
The opc transcriber wrote Baldwin, but it definitely says Bawden. And Wm surely is as good for Willimi as it is for William -right?
Sorry, I don't understand?
On Cornwall-OPC-Database, the marriage is:
William Bawden to Tamzin Tresmeana
Dated 31st February - just as it says in the Register! ;D
-
with the 2 Johns baptised just over a year apart, I'd be looking for a burial of the first one, and possibly the second died as well as there's another baptism a few years later. You're back into registers in Latin, so father is William, name is given in the genitive form, meaning of William. Mother is not often noted in baptisms this early. It was only from 1813 that mother's name had to be included.
I'd say the baptisms on consecutive dates are down to transcription problems. The dates are probably in secretary hand and it can be very hard to read in registers as old as this one. The dates were not written as numbers, but in Roman numerals joined together.
I have come across twins baptised on consecutive days, when the babies aren't expected to survive. I have twins in my tree baptised the day before they were buried and their mother died 6 weeks later.
-
Hi KGarrad :)
This is the one I found, so must have been transcribed with two different spellings:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/marriages/index.php?year_from=1580&year_to=1630&parish=&forename1=forename&surname1=baldwin&multiname=0&forename2=forename&surname2=surname&forename3=forename&surname3=surname&t=marriages&bf=Search
Hi Osprey! Thanks for your help. It suddenly makes more sense knowing it is in Latin. I am guessing this is why the names are suddenly different, more formalised. I am guessing that the records are becoming much more sparse too, meaning the marriage I found may not be the right one, even though it is the only one listed in the area at the time for a William Bawden (or variants!). Surely there were others!
If this is the right marriage, I found a birth for two girls named Tamsin Tresmena at Gerrans which look promising http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/baptisms/index.php?year_from=1560&year_to=1590&parish=&forename1=forename&surname1=Tresmena&forename2=m&forename3=&t=baptisms&nearby=1&bf=Search
-
the scan of the register that is on FamilySearch is a copy of the original Wendron register made at a later date, in the 1730s probably, as up to then it's all in the same writing and in a regular grid. So you're looking at a transcription of a copy of the original, so plenty of scope for error.
Gerrans isn't all that close to Wendron. Don't forget that not all registers have been transcribed so there may be a more likely baptism in a nearer parish. Also, Tamsin may appear as Thomasine.
There's a Richard, son of Tamzin Trismenna, baptised 30/10/1602 in Wendron, no father given.
I can rule out the Tamsin from Gerrans, she married Roberte Keast 23/11/1596 in Gerrans.
With no standard spelling and difficulties in transcribing, if you're using the opc search, you need to 'include similar surnames' in your search and use the minimum for first name. W will find William & Wm, a common abbreviation in parish registers.
-
Hi KGarrad :)
This is the one I found, so must have been transcribed with two different spellings:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/marriages/index.php?year_from=1580&year_to=1630&parish=&forename1=forename&surname1=baldwin&multiname=0&forename2=forename&surname2=surname&forename3=forename&surname3=surname&t=marriages&bf=Search
The one I found is at http://www.rootschat.com/links/0vyr/
Incidentally, if you scroll down to the bottom of any RC page, you will see "Shrink Link".
That's what I used to get a manageable URL! ;D
-
just checked the sources on the opc search, the one that says Baldwin is from the register and the one that says Bawden is from Phillimore's transcription.
http://www.parishrecord.co.uk/wpp.php
There's a burial for Tampson Keast, a widow, 5/3/1614 in Gerrans, 10 years after her husband was buried.
-
Cornwall Record Office have the will of John Bawden, tinner of Wendron, date 1635 ref AP/B/871. You can get a copy from them which should help sort out surviving children and possibly some grandchildren.
http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=14713
-
Hi again :)
Osprey, I was wondering why that register was so neat!
Thank you for ruling that Tamzin out. The ease with which you do that makes me a bit nervous about a later connection I put together without assistance. If I got it wrong, I need to go back a few generations and try again....
(Also, In regards to the will of John Bawden, I didnt mention that the Bawden in that generation I think was in my direct line was actually Benedictus.)
But going back to a double check of my findings....
I made the assumption that William Boden who married Anne Carpenter here:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=909913
was the child of Alexander Bowden and Joanne Thomas
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NK13-CRS
even though I could not find his birth, because the probable/possible children I found include an Alexander and Joane. Some of the children do not have a mother listed :
William baptised 5 Nov 1692
Edward b.12 Jan 1695
Thomas b 28 December 1700
Thomas 4 January 1701
Alexander 17 April 1704
Aleander 17 April 1707
Joane 22 Jun 1707
My ancestor in this generation is Edward b 1695. http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1186489
Almost all of the above are at Breage (one birth at Germoe). I realise I have also made another assumption by confidently asserting that Anne Carpenter is Edwards mother, I did this because of the date of the marriage and the other baptisms which list an Anne as mother.
I'd love it if I could be shown to be likely to be right or wrong....
Feeling a bit nervous now!
Hi KGarrad, thanks for the tip about shrinking url's :)
It's tricky when more than one transcription appears, but sometimes helpful too.
-
when you're getting this far back, you need as many docs as you can get. Wills can mention siblings, cousins and various other relatives. I don't think you can rely just on parish records transcriptions especially when there are gaps. If you can get to an LDS centre and order the films of the various parishes, you wouldn't be relying on someone else's transcription and could see if there are unreadable parts or years missing.
:-\
-
OK.
I have ordered some relevant (I hope) wills from CRO, just waiting for them to arrive.
I am now pretty confident with my lineage to a point. I am trying to find the father of this Bowden:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1185281
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NK13-5QF
who seems to have been known variously as Benett, Benettus, Benedict married and apparently living in Breage
I assumed he was the one baptised in Wendron to Willimi (William) as it was the only similar name I could find in the timeframe.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J733-KW1
Any thoughts?
I just found this baptism to a Benedicti at Wendron in 1634, do you think it rules him out?
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1816738
-
is the scan of the 1633 baptism available from FamilySearch? You need to know how the year has been transcribed. If it shows as 1633 on the register, that would be what we think of 1633/4. There's a marriage for Benet & Grace in 16/4/1634 in Breage.
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=909668
have you looked at all the baptisms to Ben Boden+ variants at that time to see if there is more than one family? There are baptisms to Benedict before the 1634 marriage in Wendron and a 1626 marriage in Wendron which would be early for someone baptised in 1610. There's a Benet buried in 1641 in Breage and one buried in 1658 in Wendron and one on the Protestation Return from Wendron from March 1641/2.
The baptism for one you're looking for might no longer exist, might be illegible or might not have been transcribed. If you look at the Genuki page for Breage, it says that the first six years of baptisms are imperfect
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Cornwall/Breage/
-
Quite right, it may not exist.
I just found some baptisms in Breage at around the general time Benedict would have been born with names Williamus and Thomas. It is possible that they may be siblings if he was born in Breage not Wendron.
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/baptisms/index.php?year_from=1580&year_to=1640&parish=Breage&forename1=&surname1=Bawden&forename2=joh&forename3=&t=baptisms&soundex=1&nearby=1&bf=Search
I probably won't resolve this one!
-
is the scan of the 1633 baptism available from FamilySearch? You need to know how the year has been transcribed. If it shows as 1633 on the register, that would be what we think of 1633/4. There's a marriage for Benet & Grace in 16/4/1634 in Breage.
Hi Osprey, I have found the baptism it says Feb 1633, but it occurs in the register after December 1633, so I am guessing that would be what we now think of as 1634 with the new year occurring at the end of March?
I received the wills from CRO, unfortunately, the one for John Bawden of Wendron says nothing that would indicate his brother Benedict had moved to Breage. John actually appears to have had connections further North as both Wendron and Stithians Parish Churces listed as beneficiaries.
I think we have come to a stop.
-
well, as that baptism is from 1633/4, that would mean that it's not the same father as the other 1634 baptism. Even if you're stuck at this point, you've done pretty well considering last December William's origins were a bit of a mystery.
;D
-
Right you are. I am thrilled, and if this is as far as I get, I'd say we have done very, very well.
:D
-
Hi Osprey and KGarrad,
I have no idea how to read the dates (are they dates?) in this lineage from the 'Visitations of the County of Cornwall'
I am trying to verify the birthdate for John Trefusis (m Margery Gervese). Family trees in Ancestry.com have it as 1408, but I don't know where they got it from. I am hoping to be able to make an educated guess as to who the Lord of the Manor of Trefusis was in 1452 when my ancestor was 'freed'
The link is below. Thank you!
http://www.archive.org/stream/visitationofcoun09stge#page/222/mode/2up
-
The dates are in Regnal Years! ::)
So where it says:
This Byll indented made at Westminster the 2 day of July in the 19 yeare of the raigne of our Soveraigne Lord King H VII . . . . .
It means 2nd July in the 19th Year of the reign of King Henry 7th.
He reigned from 22nd August 1485 until 21st April 1509.
So that would make it 1485 + 19 -1 = 1503! ;D ;D ;D
Don't forget that the week after his reign began is in his first year!
And Regnal Years start from the date of accession.
There is help here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regnal_years_of_English_monarchs
-
Brilliant! Thank you :D