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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: loustudawe on Saturday 01 December 12 22:07 GMT (UK)
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Kia ora
I'm trying to trace the ancestry of my 2nd Great Grandfather Walter Henry Barnett born 1845 who married Elizabeth Lanfear in Auckland 12/02/1877 (under the name of Harry Barnett).
In other family trees I've researched, he has been referenced as William Henry Walter Barnett born 27/04/1845 in Rotherhithe, Surrey, son of George Frederick Barnett.
However, I'm not sure. On WH Barnett's death (07/05/1908) certificate, the following info is provided; his age of 63 does fit, as does his marriage age of 31. His birth place is London (Rotherhithe is now part of London) but his father's name is John Barnett. Also, at the time of his death, he had been in New Zealand 34 years putting his arrival date at 1874 (same year as Elizabeth Lanfear arrived on the Rooparell). However, WHW Barnett of Rotherhithe married a Emma Janes in Deptford, UK on 18/07/1875. So, a few things just don't add up.
Does anyone else have WHW Barnett of Rotherhithe on their tree or managed to trace WH Barnett to a different line?
I have their marriage certificate, WH Barnett's death certificate, one of their children's birth certificates and 2 of their children's WW1 files. What other online NZ information could be available to help (I live in the UK). I have searched long and hard for WH Barnett's immigration/emigration/arrival record but have had no luck.
Many thanks
Stuart
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Hi loustudawe and welcome
Death cert information is only as good as the informant and quite often have incorrect info on them.
The info on his marriage cert should be accurate as he provided the info.
Cheers Janette
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His cemetery record,Waikumete
BARNETT, WALTER HENRY
Plot : WESLEY DIVISION D Row 2, Plot 20
Interment Type: Burial
Title: MR
Surname : BARNETT
Given Names: WALTER HENRY
Age : 63
Gender : Male
Occupation: WATCHMAN
Date Of Death : 07-May-1908
Date Of Burial : 10-May-1908
Funeral Director : CONVERTED RECORD
Head Stone Details : N/A
Cheers Janette
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Hi Stuart, and welcome to RootsChat! ;D
I agree with Janette's comments. But would you be able to provide us with a transcription of his marriage certificate, please it might provide some clues.
Here is a link to the passenger list of the 1874 voyage of the Rooparell.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ourstuff/Rooparell.htm
And government letters relating to the voyage published in the Appendices to the Journal of the House of Representatives (AJHR)
http://atojs.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/atojs?a=d&d=AJHR1875-I.2.1.5.7
Spades
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Just thinking about the William Henry Walter BARNETT born 27/04/1845 in Rotherhithe, son of George Frederick Barnett, and your own ancestor Walter Henry BARNETT born 1845 in Rotherhithe.
The surname is a common one and in those days given names were chosen from a smaller more traditional pool and one name could be associated with another from common practive, e.g. William Henry, Walter Henry or vice versa.
I suspect that the family tree you mention may be for a different individual entirely, both men born born in Rotherhithe in the same year. This would explain the fact that other details don't match.
Spades
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Dear Janette and Spades
Many thanks for your quick replies.
Janette, thanks, I had seen the Waikumete burial transacription which I forgot to mention. Yes, I agree about incorrect info on the death certificates. The death certificate of another 2nd Great Grandfather in Foxton had his age 15 years out! In the case of WH Barnett, there are perhaps too many inconsistencies for me to feel confident they are one and the same.
Janette/Spades, unfortunately the marriage certificate is very light on information. Info included is simply the names of Harry Barnett, Elizabeth Lanfear, both of "full age", bachelor and spinster, Harry's occupation carpenter (WHW Barnett of Rotherhithe was a brazier at the time of his UK wedding to Emma Janes in 1875) as well as the location (dwelling in Victoria Street, Auckland) and date (12/02/1877).
Spades, thanks for your information on the Rooparell. I had seen the passenger list (for Elizabeth Lanfear) but I hadn't seen the government letters which offer some excellent insight.
Spades, I have no proof of my ancestor Walter Henry BARNETT as born in Rotherhithe, only London (as per Death Cert, my great grandmother's birth certificate and 2 WW1 files of her brothers). Yes, I suspect he is different to William Henry Walter BARNETT who was born in Rotherhithe. Unfortunately, I can find no birth (or otherwise) record of a Walter Henry BARNETT born in London in 1845.
I have just read about NZ "Intention to Marry" records which I hadn't heard of previously. Do you know if they provide any additional info to the marriage cert? If so, do you know how I could find this record?
Many thanks once again
Stuart
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Hi Stuart,
Thanks for the marriage information.
I can get a transcription of the Intention to Marry Notice for you. It may not help very much but you never know.
Have you looked for Walter Henry BARNETT and Elizabeth LANFEAR in the UK Census? These are available on Ancestry (pay per view) or else at major libraries. We don't do lookups for that here as it infringes copyright.
If you can find them on the Census (1851, 1861 and 1871) the record should tell you where they were born and in the earliest, show them as part of a family group including their parents.
I realise this doesn't advance your search for Walter's date and vessel of emigration, but I'm going for the background story. ;)
Spades
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Have you managed to find Walter Henry on the 1851,1861 and 1871 UK census?this should confirm his parents and place of birth
Cheers Janette
oops sorry Spades :D
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Hi Spades and Janette
Spades, thanks, I would be really grateful if you could find the transcription of their Intention to Marry notice.
Spades and Janette, thanks, yes, I've signed up to Ancestry. I have found the census records for William Henry Walter BARNETT of Rotherhithe and his father, George Frederick. This is where I found his 1875 marriage record with Emma Janes. I have found no further information of them post 1875. I have found no record for anyone who could be my ancestor Walter Henry BARNETT (if he doesn't happen to be one and the same).
He's proving to be the "brick wall" in my tree.
I have all the census records for Elizabeth Lanfear (and have managed to trace her family back several generations).
I hope if any descendants of Walter & Elizabeth find this topic, if they aren't able to shed any further light on Walter, at least are interested in finding out what I have found out and/or sharing any info about other descendants.
Many thanks
Stuart
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Hi Stuart,
How was Walter Henry(Harry) named in the other certs you have,was he always Walter Henry(Harry)
Cheers Janette
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It looks like they had a decent brood of children
1880/14432 Barnett Isabella / Elizabeth/ Walter Henry
1882/12176 Barnett Emily/ Elizabeth /Walter Henry
1884/20237 Barnett Sydney Walter/ Elizabeth /Walter
1886/9666 Barnett Alice Nelly/ Elizabeth/ Walter Henry
1889/17139 Barnett Chrissie / Elizabeth /Walter Henry
1890/1205 Barnett Stanley James / Elizabeth /Walter Henry
1893/1706 Barnett Bertie Edward / Elizabeth /Walter Henry
1895/2224 Barnett Arthur William / Elizabeth/ Walter Henry
1900/16143 Barnett Baden Thomas Elizabeth /Walter Henry
and a couple of maybe's
1878/9237 Barnett Harriet Louisa /Elizabeth /Harry
1877/8267 Barnett Rachel / Elizabeth/ Harry
Cheers Janette
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Childrens marriages
1925/1130 Isabella Alma Gladys Morrow to Sidney Walter Barnett
1921/6009 Mary Pemberton Procter to Stanley James Barnett
1919/8610 Mary Leonara Lotter to Arthur William Barnett
1902/5374 Isabella Barnett to Symon Henry Williams
1908/1967 Rachel Barnett to John Leigh White
Cheers Janette
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Here is the Auckland War Memorial entry for Bertie,it has a photo of him
http://muse.aucklandmuseum.com/databases/Cenotaph/745.detail?Ordinal=8&c_surname_search=barnett
Cheers Janette
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Stanley is buried in the Foxton cemetery with his wife Mary,
http://www.horowhenua.govt.nz/Services/Cemeteries/Cemetery-Search-Results/?record=3973
also their son,the headstone names siblings who may well still be living
http://www.horowhenua.govt.nz/Services/Cemeteries/Cemetery-Search-Results/?record=14034
Cheers Janette
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Hi Janette
Many thanks for all the information you have posted.
Yes, all the children you have listed (including the maybes) of Walter Henry BARNETT are 100% correct, as are the marriages.
At the time of his marriage certificate in 1877, he was going by the name of Harry (shortened form of Henry?).
On the birth of his first 2 children (1877/1878), he was still Harry. Every certificate and reference after that, it was Walter Henry.
Kind regards
Stuart
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Hi Stuart,
Have you looked in the 1851 UK Census for a John BARNETT with a child aged about 6 years (therefore born about 1845) named Walter Henry?
Spades
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Hi Spades
Yes, I've had a good look - but only slight possibilities and most of these are discounted when I follow them through to latter records.
I feel my best chance is to find a NZ document/reference of Mr BARNETT that may provide; a birth place more specific than simply London, his father's occupation, mother's name or simply a re-confirmation that his father was named John.
If I could confirm an arrival date of pre mid-1875 at least this would confirm it is a different BARNETT than WHW BARNETT of Rotherhithe as I'm pretty sure of his UK 1875 marriage to Emma Janes.
Thanks once again.
Stuart
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Hmmm...as an aside, his occupation at death in 1908 (courtesy of Janette in Reply #2) was 'Watchman'. Might that mean 'police officer'? Can you confirm this, Stuart?
Archives NZ does hold police records but from previous experience you need to request permission to view them.
Can anyone find where he was living?
And since the Rooparell arrived at the port of Auckland we might assume that Walter Henry BARNETT did too.
Spades
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I should add that I would be very happy if any info came to light that confirmed my ancestor and WHW BARNETT of Rotherhithe were one and the same (I've managed to trace this line back and some really interesting stories have come from researching his ancestors) - I just don't feel they are the same people.
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Hi Spades
The occupation on his death certificate is "night-watchman" so I don't think this ties in with a police officer.
Yes, he also married Elizabeth Lanfear in Auckland in 1877 - so I assume he arrived in Auckland. But, of course, it may have been another port. His first 5 children, including his first in 1877, were born in Christchurch.
I've read an estimate of 50% of arrival records of that time are not available. I'm not sure if that means that information wasn't captured at the time or if was was captured but it just hasn't been sourced and/or transcribed as yet.
Thanks once again
Stuart
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Night-watchman - I wonder if that translates to 'security guard' in today's language. Any idea where he worked?
Yes, a lot of shipping records are yet to be indexed. Many are indexed only by vessel but their passenger manifests are complete.
I think you should look for an arrival in Auckland to begin with. If he 'shipped before the mast', e.g. arrived as a member of a ship's crew, you may never find a record of him. I've never seen a crew manifest dating to before the 1900's.
Spades
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I have looked on the Auckland library passenger lists to no avail
http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/dbtw-wpd/passengers/passenger.html
These are usually pretty good.
Cheers Janette
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You could try searching by ships into Auckland on Family search,a slow job.
https://www.familysearch.org/
Click on Australia and NZ and then New Zealand, Immigration Passenger Lists, 1855-1973,at the bottom of the page there is the option Browse through 326,409 images
Cheers Janette
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Hi Spades and Janette
Spades, yes, that's what I assume. But I have no idea of where he worked.
Janette, many thanks for undertaking that search and the familysearch passenger ship reference. I didn't know they provided the original images. I've got time to sift through these. Are you aware if this includes records that have yet to be transcribed as part of their search facility?
Many thanks to you both.
Kind regards
Stuart
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Hi Stuart,
I believe a lot of the ships have not been indexed yet and you need to trawl through the manifests.
Cheers Janette
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Hi Janette
Many thanks, that gives me some hope!
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Hi Spades
I wondered if you had any luck with the Intention to Marry transription of Walter Henry (Harry) Barnett's marriage to Elizabeth Lanfear in Auckland 1877. I only ask as I've found out it may include the year of arrival in NZ which may help with my search through the arrival images on familysearch.
Many thanks and kind regards
Stuart
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Hi Stuart,
Not yet, sorry. I'll get to it when I can.
Spades
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Hi Spades. Thanks for getting back to me - that's no problem. Absolutely no rush to get this - whenever it suits you. Many thanks, I really appreciate it, Stuart
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Hi Stuart,
Very sorry for the delay, but here it is at last:
Intention to Marry Notice. Archives NZ Ref: BDM 20/22 1877 Auckland p.70/54 (Microfilm R3594).
Dated 10 February: Harry BENNETT, bachelor, a Carpenter aged 30 years living at Victoria Street, Auckland, length of residence 1 year, intends to marry Elizabeth LANFEAR, a spinster aged 23 years living at Victoria Street, Auckland, length of residence 2 years, at the Dwelling house of Mr. ARCHBOLD, Victoria Street, Auckland. Minister: Rev. R.B. Macnicol [sic].
Spades
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Hi Spades
Many thanks for this - I really appreciate it. Length of residence of 1 year puts his arrival date late 1875/early 1876 - so still possible after his supposed July 1875 wedding in the UK to Emma Janes. I've found no record of WHW Barnett and Emma Janes/Barnett after their wedding - and I've found no other likely candidate for Walter Henry Barnett of London - so it remains a mystery. Hopefully one of his other descendants knows more than I do and comes across this discussion.
Best regards
Stuart
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Hi again Stuart,
Going back to the UK Census, have you tracked down William Henry Walter BARNETT in the 1881 Census and later? If he appeared he cannot be your Harry.
My own feeling is still that they are different individuals.
Spades
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Hi Spades
I've looked long and hard for any signs of WHW Barnett in the UK from 1875 onwards - but have had no luck at all - Emma Barnett (Janes) either. Likewise, I can find no other candidates for a Walter Henry (Harry) Barnett born in London around 1845 in the UK.
Kind regards
Stuart
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Ahhhh...Now I see your problem :)