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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Completed Lookups => Topic started by: Roy G on Wednesday 09 January 13 04:30 GMT (UK)
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I have the Swansea marriage of George Woods to Mary Draisey in 1917, and the Draisey name is causing no problems, it's the Woods.
As far as I can tell George Woods was base born of Mary Woods, in Cwmbwrla, Swansea on 28 May 1896. but he/they fail to turn up as Woods on the 1901 or 1911 Swansea censuses. Presuming Mary may have married between George's birth and the censuses, I found a probable candidate (Mary Ann Woods) who married in Swansea in 1899, but unfortunately the two possible partners for her listed on FreeBMD were a Elias Davies or a Charles Jones. An albeit brief look at the census indexes for a George born c1896 living in Swansea with a set of parents with either of those two surnames was inconclusive. Did I miss him?
To my mind the most likely mother is a 16 year old Mary Ann Woods, born Swansea born 1880, daughter of William & Catherine Woods from Ireland (1881 & 1891 censuses) but I would need more proof than just supposition. I therefore need to find George with his married mother in 1901 or 1911, alternatively, palmed off on Mary's parents or a known sibling, or in care.
The first time George re-emerges as George Woods in other records is when he joins the Welsh Regiment in September 1914, but I would very much like to identify him and his mother Mary before that date in order to verify my supposition that William & Catherine Woods from Ireland are Mary's parents and George's grandparents.
Any help would be much appreciated
Roy G
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Hi Roy
From a quick look I don't think the marriage of Mary Ann Wood is with Charles Jones. Can only find one marriage for a Mary Ann Wood to a Charles Jones and I believe they are on the 1901 census (RG13; 5072;110;page 33) age 66 & 64 respectively. Have not found the 1911 census.
However there is a Mary Ann with an Elias Davies on the 1911 census (RG14, Piece 32740, Schedule 219). They are aged 30 & 34 respectively and they have been married 11 years. Have not found the 1901 census as yet.
Ray
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Believe I have found the 1901 census for Mary Ann.
(RG13;5073;36; page 10) has Mary Davies age 21 and Elias Davies age 24 (transcription shows 34 but it is 24) with a son William J (age 1 year) and a sister Elizabeth Wood. But no George.
On the 1891 census (RG12;4476;67; Page 7) there is:
Household Members:
Name Age
John Woods 19 Son/Head
Catherine Woods 41 Mother widow
William Woods 13 Son
Mary Ann Woods 11 Daughter
Elizabeth Woods 9 Daughter
James Woods 7 Son
Jane Woods 5 Daughter
Can't yet find the 1901 census for Catherine.
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Hi Ray
Yes thats them on the 1891 census you have shown (catherine died 1900). Unfortunately, I now know that the married name of Mary Ann was Jones, so many thanks for your valient efforts on that score but regrettably the Davies name is no longer a fit. What I can throw into the equasion however is that between 1900 and 1911, another daughter called Lily arrived. Regards Roy G
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Have found a Mary Jones (1882) and a Charles Jones (1879) on the 1901 & 1911 census (I assume that you have as well) but no Lily. There is a lily with them on the 1911 census but she is a niece born 1898. Have checked all the Lily Jones born Swansea between 1898 and 1911 but no connection to a Mary Jones.
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Hi Ray
No, I had not found the Jones entry you refer to, mainly because personal funds are such I am not subsribed to one of the more costly ancestry websites. I therefore have to rely on searching the indexes rather than seeing copies of the actual census entries themselves.
Even though her age is a bit off, I feel the two census entries you have found may well be them, so it would help to have a census reference. Was George with them by the way? The little info I have about Charles is that he was not a skilled person, so at one time made his living as a street cleaner and rat catcher. Hopefully the census entry you found bears this out.
Lily's connection may also be a family story that has been mis-interpreted, perhaps she was a base born daughter of another member of the family, but was brought up by them and subsequently became thought of as their daughter.
Thanks again. At last I feel that I may be getting somewhere. Regards Roy G
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1901 census: RG13;5075;141;page 46:
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Jones 22 Head Billposter
Mary Jones 19 wife
Mary Jones 7 Months daughter
The address is 4 Rees Court.
1911 census: RG14; 32788; Schedule 502
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Jones 31 Head Billposter
Mary Jones 28
Mary Ann Jones 67 mother
William Jones 41 Lodger Labourer
Violet Jones 16 Niece
Lilly Jones 13 Niece
Josephine Jones 8 Daughter
Charlies Jones 6 Son
Bessie Jones 3 Daughter
There is no daughter Mary with them but the census says they had four children and all are alive.
The address given is: 5 Percy St Gorse Rd Cwmbwrla Swansea.
Ray
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Have had one last look around but have not found any of the Woods family in 1901 or 1911. An assumption would be that they left the area but as you say mother Catherine died in Sept Qtr 1900 in Swansea (so she would not be on the census).
In 1891 the Woods family were living at 6 Tip Row, but in 1901 that house was not occupied so no help there.
Another thing is that I could only find one Mary Ann Wood with a mother Catherine & sister Elizabeth, so having an Elizabeth Wood as a sister to a Mary Davies on the 1901 census is a little confusing.
Anyway good hunting
Ray
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Hi Ray, I had replied to you off list to say that I thought it was all tied up, but now I am beginning to question the memory of the member of the family who told me his Great Grandpa was a Jones. An alternative and more credible family comes from a colleage who I asked the same question a while ago. I thought a response from them was not forthcoming, but it was just substantially delayed.
They suddenly came up with the following Davies family entry, which dovetailed perfectly with ages and marriage date given on the 1911:
Census findings for Mary Ann Woods born 1880
1901 Census RG13 5073 86 10 Swansea, Glam:
Living at 100 Neath Road, Swansea.
Davies Elias Head M M 24 Gen Lab
Davies Mary Wife M F 21
Davies William J Son S M 1
Elizabeth Woods SiLaw S F 19 Domestic Servant
ALL BORN SWANSEA
This would appear to be the correct Mary (Ann) due to the presence of her sister in law Elizabeth Woods who I knew to be 2 years younger than Mary Ann.
1911 Census RG14PN32740 RG78PN1869 RD594 SD2 ED3 SN219, Swansea, Glam:
Living at 3 Pentremawr Road, Pentre (Same family but I cant show the details due to 1911 census copywrite)
Still NO George unfortunately.
Roy G
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Roy
If you look at freebmd you will see that there is a birth for a Lily Davies in Swansea in 1907 & a subsequent death (age 3) in 1910. There were 6 births of Lily Davies between 1901 & 1911.
The 1911 census shows that Mary Davies did lose 4 children. As you are aware Mary only had 3 children with her in 1911:
William John born 1900
Ivor Davies born 1909
Mary Davies 1 month old
Ray
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Roy
There may be a chance that the two oldest sons of Catherine Woods (John 1872 & William 1878) may have also died before 1900. Have found the following deaths in Swansea:
John Woods born 1872 died 1898
William Woods born 1878 died 1899.
I can only find the one birth of a John Woods in Wales between 1871 & 1873, that being March 1872 Merthyr Tydfil (on the 1881 census John was shown born Merthyr). There are 3 births of a John Wood (June 1872 Caernavon; Sept 1872 Merthyr; Dec 1872 Cardigan).
I can also only find 2 births for a William Woods in Wales - April 1877 Cardiff; March 1878 Swansea. There were 3 births for a William Wood (June 1877 Cardiff; March 1878 Swansea; March 1878 Cardiff).
If the 2 did died we know that Mary Ann and Elizabeth were living together at that stage so the two youngest children; James (17 in 1901) and Jane (15 in 1901) were probably living independantly or living with another family.
Ray
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Hi Ray. I picked up on those deaths too and retraced the family back from Swansea to Merthyr in 1871, found the first born children's births in Merthyr, then the parents' marriage also there in 1866, and then discovered that the wife Catherine Welsh who once claimed she was born in Ireland, was actually Cathereine WELCH, born in Merthyr in 1849. Before going further back in time though, I have to sort out this anomally and verify whether I have homed in on the correct Woods family who are known to have remained in Swansea up until WW2.
The FreeBMD indexes for Swansea confirms an entry in the family bible saying George Woods was born in 1896, but there being no baptismal record on the IGI, I would need a copy birth certificate to verify that the bible is also correct by listing no father alongside his mother Mary Ann Woods, 'reputed' to be very young and unmarried.
FreeBMD have only two Swansea based Mary Woods marrying between 1895 & 1920 (1899 & 1907) and intuitively I opted for the earlier of the two whose partner was either Charles William Jones or Elias Davies. A family member says he recalls Great grandpa Charlie Jones and aunt Lili which lines up with the Jones family Ray found, although Mary's age is marginally out. Alternatively, there are Swansea entries for the Davies family on the 1901 & 1911 censuses which have data giving Mary her correct age, showing a Sister in Law Elizabeth Woods also of the correct age and gives a marriage year of 1899 and therefore dovetails far better.
I think the former Welshman for whom I am doing the research now needs to start buying copy certificates. Is it Welshmen or Scotsmen that have deep pockets and short arms? Roy G
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Roy
It looks like this must have been a very unlucky family. Have found the death of young Jane in 1898:
Jane Woods Born abt 1886 died Jan 1898 Swansea 11a 579. There is only one Jane Woods born in that period in Swansea.
Have also found the death for James Woods:
James Woods born abt 1883 died Sept 1899 Swansea 11a 658. There were 2 James Woods born in that period in Swansea; Dec 1883 & Dec 1884. However the second James Woods is on the 1901 census with his mother Sarah Jane Stephens RG13;5069;78;43.
I think you should assume that young George was in childrens home somewhere?
And us welshmen do have short arms - but definetely no money in our deep pockets!!
Ray