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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: cockney rebel on Thursday 24 January 13 14:58 GMT (UK)
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Hi there
I have an elusive Catherine Maria Storm b 1839 probably Cardiff . In the UK 1851 Census she is a pupil at an Orphan School ...which indeed she was...and there the trail ends.
A bit of searching the newspaper archives at Trove refers to a courtcase (theft ) in 1859 where somebody of the same name living in Port Adelaide is sentenced to 3 months hard labour
This I believe could well be the right person..it's a fairly unusual name, the age cited is about right and also ahe is nowhere else to be found!
Has anyone got access to passenger arrivals 1851 and 1859 ? I'm wondering whether she was "exported" by the Orphan School ?
And where could I possibly find any prison record for this period ?
Grateful for any pointers
Rebel
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Ref 1 > Catherine Maria Storm married Thomas Coate in Victoria in 1869
(Registration number Victoria 1869 1032)
Ref 2 > Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists suggests >
Catherine Storm born abt 1830 aged 24 Arrived 25th April 1854 at Portland, Australia Departed from Liverpool aboard the vessel Almora of Irish / Scottish nationality
furthering that South Australia was part of Victoria at one stage and as much as I know the event happened my old history teacher would be dissappointed as I cant remember the year in which the seperation of Sth Aust happened....
Almora was a noted vessel in Australian history and following that vessel will give you extra background information.
I am not seeing any on line issue for this couple, but they might very well have had issue. Check historical bmd Victoria / Sth Aust and see if there is any mention of children....
best I can offer at present , but , this needs contact with State Archives of Victoria and someone local to do a Post Office Directory search etc
:)
fastfusion
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P.S. I think this lassie lied about her age to get into the immigration programme ... which wasnt uncommon and given initial records are not firm in DOBs I think u have the right lass.
:)
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Hey FF
Thankyou for that.
I think the marriage looks good....just seen there's a death reg for her ,also 1869-
Not sure that the passenger records refers to the same woman...one is an infant and one is about 24. My girl was definitely born in 1839. At that age, ten years makes a lot of difference! Pity Ancestry only has transcripts...original image might really show a nine as a zero!
Mind you ,she had a scottish father and a welsh mother, so maybe the of scottish descent bit fits...
And is "Portland" the same place as "Port Adelaide" ? I know very little about Australia, certainly not that SA and VIC were once united.
Rebel
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yes i agree the original may show a 0 instead of 9...
Name changes in Sth Australia were like fox hunting ..twas a national sport... I do recall something about Portland, maybe worth a google....
heres something on tangent about Sth Australia and their racist natures in early days
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_place_names_changed_from_German_names
to indicate the attitude of the white australia policy which preceeded "multiculturalism"
At best South Australian records are vague and non discript.... However, in saying that, a lot of movement of vessels otherwise known as the packet ships were reported from South Australia and telegraphed to melbourne to be entered into the newspapers.
:)
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Hi again, I've just been through the passenger lst for the Almora on that date.400+ passengers with very,very Irish names ! It also showed a Patrick Storm, presumably husband and father of Cath., Cath the infant and also a Bridget aged 2....so that sadly rules this family out.
Why is never anything easy ??
Just keep on looking I guess....
Cheers
Rebel
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ok thats good to know ...... you can have some of my family tree if you want I got some shockers and I cant find squat on them
:)
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Hi Rebel,
What were the names of Catherine's parents?
Debra :)
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furthering that South Australia was part of Victoria at one stage and as much as I know the event happened my old history teacher would be dissappointed as I cant remember the year in which the seperation of Sth Aust happened....
fastfusion
I think your old history teacher would be very disappointed ;) :P Back to the history books for you. The Colony of SA was never part of the Colony of Vic.
Marriage in Victoria
STORM Catherine Maria born Kingston
COATE Thomas born Somersetshire
1869 Reg#1032
Death
COATE Catherine Maria
Father James STORM Mother Margaret UNKNOWN
24 years Born BRIS 1869 Reg#3372
This may be her buried at the Ballarat Cemetery as...
COATES Catherine Maud 24 years 14 May 1869
Wife of Hill Street, Ballarat
Area Church of England Section 13 Grave#15
I have found errors in the Ballarat Cemetery online database so you would need to ask the administration to have a look at the Burial Orders to see if there has been a mistranscription. Errors will exist with the transcribing of paper based records, many with almost illegible script.
Viewing the online passenger index at PROV suggests that Catherine 24 years was the wife of Patrick and mother of Catherine and Bridget all with reference Book 10 Page 227
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=24
Arriving on the ALMORA Apr 1854 Book 10 Page 227
STORM Bridget 2 years
STORM Catherine 0
STORM Catherine 24
STORM Patrick 27
Lying at anchor in Portland Bay - Victoria
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0sqq/
Portland/Portland Estate was formerly in the Port Adelaide district in the State of South Australia
The South Australian Register 13 Apr 1859
FELONY Catherine Maria Storm, a girl of 17 or l8 years of age, was charged on the information of Police Inspector Reid on suspicion of having feloniously stolen a large number of miscellaneous articles, chiefly consisting of portions of ladies' dresses, and the fabrics of which they are composed, and including also a few gold stnds, photographic pictures adapted for the stereoscope, and some trifling drawing-room ornaments, the entire of them being the property of Mr. W. Wadham, land agent.
I wonder if Catherine Maria was honest with her age on her marriage certificate?
This appears to be her birth and the possible deaths of her parents as named on her death registration.
Births Jun 1839
STORM Catherine Maria Cardiff 26/345
Deaths Sep 1840
STORM Margaret Cardiff 26/233
Deaths Dec 1840
STORM James Cardiff 26/253
The 1869 marriage certificate would give you the names of Catherine Maria's parents, her age, place of birth and father's occupation.
Images of Victoria certs can be purchased online $AUD$20 and immediately downloaded
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Cando
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so begging to differ what was south australia prior to 1836 from 1790 Cando ?
it wasnt til 1842 it became crown colony and 1861 when its boundaries were formed???
:(
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If you feel the need to refresh your knowledge of the settlement of the Australian colonies may I suggest you do so in your own time and not here on this thread. The Colony of South Australia was never a part of the Colony of Victoria.
Cheers :)
Cando
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Rebel I have searched the assisted immigrant records at SA Archives and the available SA passengers records to 1859 but nothing for Catherine Maria STORM. I wonder if she emigrated with a family perhaps as their servant or nurse and they may have been unassisted immigrants. If so, I doubt you will find her arrival. There are many newspaper reports of her court appearance and one mentioned she "had been respectably brought up and he [His Honor] had no doubt was well inculcated in the principles of morality".
Cheers :)
Cando
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so begging to differ what was south australia prior to 1836 from 1790 Cando ?
NSW? :-\
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_evolution_of_Australia
Rebel, do you have a name for the Orphan School? Just wondering if there is any research that can be done from that end to see if they may have sent children to the colonies, or if any records survive. You are probably looking for the Welsh equivalent of the Old Bailey online records? It might be worth posting a query on the Welsh boards.
Do you have Catherine in 1841 with her parents? Maybe this will give you an insight into the circumstances of the family. Perhaps deaths of the parents? Apologies I see Cando has found likely deaths for the parents in 1840. In which case, do you have Catherine in 1841?
We don't know if she commited offences before arrival in Australia, or not until she arrived. Was she transported?
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I have had a quick look for Catherine in 1851 but can't see her. Can you provide the relevant details please Rebel. :)
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Forgive me if Im wrong, Victoria was part of the NSW Colony, so was South Australia. We were such a happy family. ;D Happy Australia day everyone.
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This looks like her...
1851 Census HO107/1942/382/7
Living at 12 Walcot Parade,Walcot, Somerset
NEAMES Catherine Jane Head Unmarried 40 years Matron of Orphan School Born Chippensosbey, Gloucestershire
STORM Catharine Scholar 11 years Scholar Born Cardiff
Cando
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uummm i know now i made a bbooo boo..... ok twas nsw ..i did say my ol history teacher would be dissappointed in me
happy australia day
m :)
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Rebel, do you have a name for the Orphan School? Just wondering if there is any research that can be done from that end to see if they may have sent children to the colonies, or if any records survive. You are probably looking for the Welsh equivalent of the Old Bailey online records? It might be worth posting a query on the Welsh boards.
Do you have Catherine in 1841 with her parents? Maybe this will give you an insight into the circumstances of the family. Perhaps deaths of the parents? Apologies I see Cando has found likely deaths for the parents in 1840. In which case, do you have Catherine in 1841?
We don't know if she commited offences before arrival in Australia, or not until she arrived. Was she transported?
Ruskie this appears to be the name of the establishment
Orphan School and House of Protection, 12, Walcot Parade, established in 1805 by Lady Isabella King
Cando
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Thanks very much for the references Cando. (I think I was spelling her name incorrectly ... opps :-[)
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Another reference is to House of Protection for Orphans and Destitute Females in Walcot.
Cando
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Another reference is to House of Protection for Orphans and Destitute Females in Walcot.
Cando
I've been googling but you're one step ahead of me. :)
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What do we make of this?:
Baptism in the Parish of Roath
1839 June 2nd
Catherine Maria daur of David and Margaret Storm
abode: Cardiff
Occ: Master Builder
Baptism in the Parish of St Mary Cardiff
1840 Aug 13th
Helen daur of David and Margaret Storm
Abode: Crabherbtown(?) [will need to look this one up]
occ: contractor
There is a death for a Helen Storm Sept 1/4 1840 Cardiff. :(
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Ruskie I had noticed this birth earlier ...had a search to see if there were any other STORM births registered in the district Cardiff.
Births Sep 1840
STORM Hellen Cardiff 26/331
I think it is the correct Catherine Maria STORM in the news item in SA marrying and dying in Vic in 1869 but would have to see the marriage cert to see if there was a reason to lower her age eg if Thomas was possibly younger. Of course her age may be incorrect on the death cert but parents are spot on. There is also the possibility that Catherine was unsure of her age.
Cando
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Oh heck just noticed father is David on the baptisms. Blast...back to searching. Of course Catherine made have made an error with his name. Need to see if David is on the 1841 census.
Cando
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Something odd...only three David STORM deaths in England to 1927.
Could his name have been David James or James David :-\ :-\ .
Cando
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I was just going to say that father is David not James. :)
It would be interesting to know what Catherine's father's name is on her marriage cert. There is a death in Cardiff for a David Storm in 1845 - year of birth estimated to be 1794 (too old?).
Of course Catherine was only young when 'orphaned' and may not have known or remembered her father's name.
David should be on the 1841. I can't see Catherine in 1841.
It might be that Margaret died in childbirth - looks like dates of death for Margaret and Helen tally.
Margaret Storm who died in 1840 St Roath - estimated year of birth 1801.
If these are the correct parents and correct burials, then I am thinking that there may be earlier children than Catherine and Helen ....
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Righto, I found two more possible children also christened in 1839 in Roath (job lot?) - David and Elizabeth.
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Oh dear. This is getting a bit confusing:
David Storm and Elizabeth Storm
baptised Aug 4th 1893 Cardiff
father: David, Master Builder
mother: Elizabeth :-\
I don't know what to make of that ....
I have found a David Storm marriage to a Margaret in Scotland, but I think I'll leave that out of the mix as it might just complicate matters further ....
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I cannot see anyone with the surname Storm in 1841 in Wales.
There are some Storms in England, and one of interest is a David Storm age 8 (born about 1833). He is at the Summer Hill Boarding School in St George Gloucestershire (not a million miles from Somersetshire where Catherine is in 1851).
Just above him on the census I see a 15 year old John Storm and an 18 year old James Storm, (none of the Storms are born in county) so unsure who these boys are and if or how they are connected.
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Ruskie I cannot find a death for a David STORM in 1845 at Cardiff. Probably me ;)
Is this the marriage you found in Scotland? I found it initially on Scotslandpeople by elimination but not the parish [don't have any credits at the moment] and then on IGI.
STORM David
HOSSACK Margaret
26 Dec 1828 Inverkip, Renfrew, Scotland.
A little more
Inquest Index
COATES Catherine Maria
Place Ballarat 1869 Ref#127
Cause Typhoid Fever
I notice her place of birth on her death registration is noted as BRIS. Could this be Bristol?
I wonder if Catherine was accurate with her parents on her marriage cert which was more than likely the source for the information on the death certificate. Perhaps she didn't know a lot about herself as her age is also inaccurate. I hope she had some happiness with Thomas.
Cheers
Cando
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Yes Cando, that is the marriage.
The surname Storm seems concentrated around Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, so I was expecting the search to lead there rather than Scotland.
I will send you a PM.
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It would be interesting to find the connection to Rebel's family.
The report in the Advertiser is also detailed but differs from the report below and is worth reading . Was it a coincidence that the other two servants had also left the employ of Wm WADHAM. Rather odd that an employer would treat a former employee whom he stated was not qualified for the position, as a guest and dine with her.
South Australian Register 13 Apr 1859
Catherine Maria Storm, a respectably-attired young woman, was charged with stealing a variety of articles, the property of William Wadham.
Mr. Atkinson appeared for the prisoner. The prosecutor deposed that the prisoner had been living at his house for about two months. The first three weeks she was there as nursery governess, and after that remained there as a guest until such time at she procured another situation. She left on the 23rd March. Had missed many of the articles now produced soon after she left. The witness then went over the articles produced, and identified as his property some photographic views, a set of gold studs, a blotting-case, some pieces of ribbon, and sundry other small things. He had never given her permission to take any of the things, and had no suspicion of her.
By Mr. Atkinson— A £5 note was missed in January, but he did not attach any suspicion to the prisoner. Had two servants in the house, neither of whom had caused any suspicion. Jane Wadham, wife of the last witness, also identified a quantity of fringe, some pieces of silk, a fan, a waistcoat-piece, piece of muslin, &c, &c. She also stated that she had missed other articles similar to some produced, but could not identify them. She said that she went to Brighton a short time ago. The prisoner went with her, and remained there for about three weeks, when she returned to town. The house was left in charge of the housemaid while she was at Brighton. The prisoner left the house soon alter witness returned from Brighton. Missed some of the things on her return, and spoke to her servant about them. Her suspicions were aroused, and she went to the houses of Mrs. Scriven and Mrs. Pepper, where she saw some of the things now produced. Agnes Shortridge, servant to list witness, also identified some of the articles produced. She said that one day she saw a night-dress with 'J. Wadham' on it hanging out of the prisoner's box. Told her she should tell Mr. Wadham, but the prisoner begged her not. Sarah Scriven said the prisoner brought a piece of white satin (produced) to her to make a bonnet. Some of the other things had been given to her as presents. The prisoner also offered her one of the gold studs, but she refused to take it. Witness had made the waistcoat-piece (produced) into a mantle for, the prisoner.
By Mr. Atkinson— Was a dressmaker and had done work for the prisoner. The prisoner stayed at her father's house for a few days. Did not know what her circumstances were. The prisoner owed her money for dress making, Jane Scriven deposed that the prisoner had given her as presents the blotting-case, lace scarf, fan and some other trifling articles. Anne Pepper stated that she had known the prisoner for eighteen months, but had only been intimate about three weeks. Some articles (produced) had been given to her for her child by the prisoner. Mrs Wadham called at her home and she gave the things to the police. Detective Brown deposed to having received the articles produced from the houses of Mr. Scriven aud Mr. Pepper. A police-trooper stated that he arrested the prisoner at Captain Lawson's, Cockatoo Valley. She said she was innocent of the charge. The prisoner, in answer to the Bench, repeated her statement as to her innocence. She was committed to take her trial at tho Supreme Court.
William WADHAM arrived in SA in 1850 was reported as a surveyor and land agent who was declared insolvent in the 1880's. He died in SA and his wife died in England.
Robert [farm labourer] and Jane SCRIVEN nee FOWELS with their two children Elizabeth and Sarah [a third Ellen,died at sea]arrived Adelaide 1858 on the MELBOURNE from Liverpool. They were from Somerset. Their marriage in 1854 was registered in the district of Langport.
According to John PEPPER’s obituary in 1928 he was born c1836.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0sqw/
and Annie’s death reg in 1926 she was 86 so born c1840. She arrived in SA with her parents in 1849 on the SIMLAH and he arrived with his parents and siblings in 1849 on the NAVARINO
PEPPER John Full age Status not noted Father John PEPPER
BAMFORD Annie Minor Status not noted Father John BAMFORD
22 Apr 1858
At St John Church [Adelaide] Ade 34/442
This would be the child referred to in the newspaper.
PEPPER Ann
28 Sep 1858
Father John PEPPER Mother Ann BAMFORD
At Adelaide Ade 11/400
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0sqx/
Captain LAWSON’s of Cockatoo Valley obituary in Jul 1859. He died as a result of a fall from his gig in Apr 1859. Connections to the mining trade in Wales. He was a councillor and involved in local affairs.
I was hoping to find some sort of a connection to those mentioned in the news report.
Cheers
Cando
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The Post Office Annual Directory
1823
STORM David
No 3 Bread Street, Edinburgh Builder
1824
STORM David
No 2 Lothian Road, Edinburgh Builder
1825, 1828, 1829
STORM David
No 2 Downie Place Edinburgh Builder
Cheers
Cando
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1834 Pigots Directory
Builders
STORM David Southgate Street, Hartlepool, Durham
Cando
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I am back on the desktop PC now so can reply properly. Wow Cando, you have dug up some fabulous information!
So that Renfrew marriage is looking a bit more likely even though it happened on the other side of Scotland to where David was working (still not too far away in the great scheme of things ;))
David moved around a lot .... :-\
I hope Rebel returns soon to give some feedback.
(regarding the BRIS/Bristol - I suppose it must mean Bristol :-\)
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hey cando well done on that court case article...
something popped into my mind when i read it... i know its a little off base but there was an Atkinson chap in convict Tasmania who was an overseer, and as things goes was held to randsom by some escaping convicts, but Atkinson surname is fairly popular in UK ... wonder if the Atkinson in your article is related to the overseer Atkinson..... (probably not but ??) ... Atkinson family went on to own one of the largest cattle stations in North Queensland called Gunnawarra outside of Mt Garnet.
anyways.... probably all just in a name
::)
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Hi All
How can this be ? Three pages of answers that I haven't even seen ??!!
Firstly, thanks for all the digging and delving you've been doing on my behalf.If I'd got my notification of answers received , I could have cleared you all up on a few issues a little earlier!
Catharine Maria Storm born 1839 : her parents are David and Margaret but Margaret is his second wife, and the children baptised in Cardiff with the mother's name "Elizabeth" are his children from first marriage. Elizabeth's already dead at this point.
Catherine's mother dies in 1840 and she is "lent out" to a childless couple called Evans who are related in some way to Mr Storm.Then her father goes bankrupt and dies (1845) and she lands in the Orphan school. She has no full blood siblings. All the children of her mother ( my direct line via sibling) from first marriage and to Mr Storm die either as infants or young adults and all without issue. This is why I am so interested in Catherine.....if she had issue or not.
The marriage for Catherine and Thomas Coate looks good.....except the father (or is that the death cert?) states the father as being James and not David. Or maybe the new husband didn't know any better ?
My gut feeling says that the Cath.Maria in Australia is the right one but I'd just like to be sure!
Rebel
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I am sure this is your Catherine and the marriage certificate would have the names of her parents including her mother's maiden name. However as Catherine's parents died when she was so young it would be understandable if they were not accurate on her marriage certificate and therefore on her death certificate.
What was Catherine's mother's maiden name?
You can purchase and immediately download images of certificates in Victoria [AUD20].
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Victorian certificates contain a wealth of information. Perhaps take the time to read this link.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
Her inquest file should be at the Public Records of Victoria. There is no research or copying service available as you need to visit or engage a research agent.
Inquest Index
COATES Catherine Maria
Place Ballarat 1869 Ref#127
Cause Typhoid Fever
There is no birth registered to Thomas COATE/S and Catherine STORM and as both her marriage and deaths were in the same year with her burial in May I doubt there were any. Her death certificate would note any issue to the marriage.
Marriage in Victoria
STORM Catherine Maria born Kingston
COATE Thomas born Somersetshire
1869 Reg#1032
Death
COATE Catherine Maria
Father James STORM Mother Margaret UNKNOWN
24 years Born BRIS 1869 Reg#3372 [added - ?Bristol]
This may be her buried at the Ballarat Cemetery as... [added - it is her as there are no other deaths registered in that name on the indexes. Maria has been mistranscribed as Maud]
COATES Catherine Maud 24 years 14 May 1869
Wife of Hill Street, Ballarat
Area Church of England Section 13 Grave#15
Cheers
Cando
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Hiya
Thanks for your response.
Catherine's mother was born Powell widowed Morgan died Storm.
I've tried tricking the system and Powell shows as a name.
Are you sure that the images are instantly available and downloadable? I thought they still had to be ordered or "requested!....
I still can' t fathom why a young , orphaned girl would end up in Australia. My thoughts are that she would have been sent via the school. She came from "a good house" and the court case implies she was working in an affluent and well placed household as a child nurse /governess.
But nothing backs this up ! No passenger record, no other source...And heavens! If this is the right girl, where was she between her 3 months hard labbout in 1859 and her marriage 1869 ?
The burial age doesn't fit at all, but hey , not a lot of a lot of things is reliable!
Loose ends eh?
Rebel
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May I please re-assure you that in past years I have immediately downloaded images of bdm certs from Victoria's website that Cando posted for you. It is a simple process and requires your plastic card details. The info available on Vic certs is as good or better than the depth of info available on Scottish certs .... in other words, in my view, Vic certificates are the best in the world for giving up info for family history research ;D
Cheers, JM
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Are you sure that the images are instantly available and downloadable? I thought they still had to be ordered or "requested!....
Of course I'm sure. Please give me some credit for researching in Australia. I have spent a lot of time trying to help you with your request.
Why shouldn't she emigrate to SA. She may have gained employment as a servant with a family and the family emigrated and you will not find a passenger record if they emigrated as an unassisted emigrants.
Her death certificate would detail her time in Australia and in which Colony ie South Australia and Victoria.
Cando
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Oh dear. This is getting a bit confusing:
David Storm and Elizabeth Storm
baptised Aug 4th 1893 Cardiff
father: David, Master Builder
mother: Elizabeth :-\
I don't know what to make of that ....
I have found a David Storm marriage to a Margaret in Scotland, but I think I'll leave that out of the mix as it might just complicate matters further ....
Oh well that all makes sense Rebel, now that we know David married twice. I take it you already had details of children born to David and both wives? :-\
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Hi
Have now successfullly downloaded the death cert. for Catherine Maria but it leaves me with the same amount of doubt as I had previously.!
The age is wrong (states 24 when she would have been 29), the father's name is wrong (states James not David).It does state that she had been 8 years in Victoria..which at least ties in with the courtcase..and that she had had no children.
So, no real clarity and still the question of how to find any.
Her entry into Australia : if she travelled as an unassisted passenger ,she wouldn't necessarily be on any passenger list?
The courtcase and the hard labour sentence : do any gaol records exist ? court proceedings ?
Otherwise I'm lost as to where to go next..
Rebel
PS what useful thing can I do with the other 4 names listed on her death reg page ?