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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: natp_70 on Saturday 09 February 13 16:50 GMT (UK)
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Ok, so this may be a long shot but I am desperate to find the connection between Admiral Sir George Somers and George Bellamy MD of Plymouth. I have found reference to them being connected through a 'collateral descendent' but cannot actually find the connection.
All and any help very gratefully received!
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You may have more success if you give some idea of dates and details of the reference you have located.
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Well, Admiral Somers 1554–1610 was born in Lyme Regis Dorset and deemed to be the founder of the British colony on Bermuda. I have found numerous references to a portrait purchased from "Miss E. Winifred Bellamy, of Woodside Cottage, Plymouth, Devon, England, a descendant of Sir George ... [the portait] which Miss Bellamy inherited from her ancestor, Dr. Bellamy, MD, connected with the Somers family". Now there have been a couple of doctors in this branch of the Bellamy family, but I am pretty confident it's George Bellamy MD (1773-1863), who fought at the Battle of the Nile, served under Nelson at Trafalgar and went on to become Mayor of Plymouth (1811-1812).
Hope that helps ???
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If you just google george bellamy 1773 you find stuff. ;)
http://genforum.genealogy.com/bellamy/messages/1055.html
says that Winifred Wilhelmina was the daughter of Rev George who was the son of George MD 1773, but she married John Thomas Dixon in Northumberland (marriage 1855 in GRO index). They had a daughter Wilhemina Elizabeth who married James Bellamy Higham.
So certainly there was a Winifred in the story and the reference could be to her -- grdaughter of George MD -- before her marriage?
That person (gr-grson of Rose, a granddaughter of George MD) might have more information; there's an email address there.
... I love sources, and full info.
http://www.bermuda-online.org/sirgeorgesomers.htm
The portrait was purchased in 1932 (or 1937) so obviously the E Winifred Bellamy in question was not a granddaughter of George MD 1763.
"The Bellamy family, direct descendants of the Admiral"
This would make George 1773 Bellamy the Dr Bellamy in question, if a male ancestor of George Bellamy 1773 had married a female descendant of George Somers 1554, presumably.
That is, in order for the line to go
George Somers 1554
George Bellamy 1773
E Winifred Bellamy
(Elizabeth Winifred Bellamy 1846-1929?? purchased from her estate?)
there had to be a Mr Bellamy + Ms Somers marriage between the 1575ish and 1770ish. And there would presumably be at least five generations in that 200-year span!
Is this academic interest, or are you connected with one of the families? Are you in touch with any members of the Bellamy family, for instance?
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Hi Janey
This is actually a very specific project for my grandfather's 95th birthday (though at this rate it may be his 100th!! ;D). I am the greatx4 granddaughter of George Bellamy MD (born 1773) though not through the Highams but the Bellamys (my mother is a Bellamy) and I'm trying to go as far back as I can through time as I know he would be fascinated.
So any and all help from anyone out there, Bellamy or not would be hugely appreciated!
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Aha, a time-sensitive question then!
So for starters, have you ascertained who the parents of George MD 1773 were?
Work backwards from what you know, and all that. ;)
Or forwards from George Somers ... and hope to meet in the middle!
http://www.chrisrobinson.co.uk/places/bellamyclose.shtml
"Born in an old house, close to St Andrew’s Church, in 1773, he was brought up by his aunt (his mother died in the act of giving birth)."
Baptism and burial records for Plymouth 1773 for starters ... there's nothing at FamilySearch.
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Thanks Janey - great minds obviously thing alike and that's how I'm working at the moment. I was just hoping that someone out there might already have this info as I'm very new to this genealogy stuff and I know there are a lot of experienced and knowledgeable people out there. :D
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FS was being temperamental - "Geroge Bellamy" 1773
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC9N-M3X
You can see the details at findmypast for a fee, to get parents' given names, or someone reading here may have access to the parish register info for you.
There's a George Bellamy + Mary Burrow marriage 1771 ...
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC9K-9P3
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Hi Janey
Thank you so much for helping out :D
This is as far as I've got ...
- George born 1773
- His parents: George (1749-1804) and Mary Burrow (1749-1783) - though I think his mother's date of death is incorrect as I have found another source that states she died giving birth to George.
- His grandparent: George (1713-1798) married to Mary Winnefred Forster (1712-1789)
- His great-grandparents: Josias Bellamy (dates unkown) married to Gathred Mitchell (dates uknown)
After that I'm a little bit stuck (and that's assuming the info I have is correct LOL!) - as I said, I'm a novice at this (though finding it very compulsive ... and fascinating!)
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You are now officially hooked.
There was a bit more re George MD 1773 at the site I linked to earlier (not tested, of course):
http://www.chrisrobinson.co.uk/places/bellamyclose.shtml
"A descendant of the Captain Bellamy who served Queen Elizabeth against the Armada"
Unfortunately for googling, there was a Captain Bellamy in Pirates of the Caribbean ...
The Armada thing was 1588. So that would make him pretty much an exact contemporary of George Somers 1554.
So at some point between those two men born c1550+ (if we assume the Capt Bellamy info to be correct) and Josias Bellamy (born late 1600s sometime), the lines were joined by marriage. Capt Bellamy himself could even have married a Ms Somers.
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Uh oh.
http://www.bermudabiographies.bm/Archive/index-nov08.html
"His nephew and heir Matthew Somers ignored Somers’ dying wish for the Patience to complete its mission by returning to Virginia. He had Somers’ heart and entrails removed and sailed to England on board the Patience with Somers’ embalmed body. Somers was buried in the Church of St. Candida and Holy Cross in Dorset on July 4, 1611. His heart is buried in Somers Gardens, St. George’s."
If his nephew was his heir ... maybe he still had a daughter ...
And actually, my original algebra was off. A Ms Somers could have married a Mr Smith and had a daughter who married a Mr Brown who had a daughter who married a Mr Bellamy ...
First job is to find whether George Somers had any children at all, I think!
You might end up being related through his nephew, as is the case for all the people in the US who claim to be descended from Gen George Monck, Duke d'Albemarle, and are really descended from his nephew Christopher ....
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bmuwgw/seaventure.htm
"Admiral Sir George Somers (1554-1610) was born near Lyme Regis in Dorset, England of modest circumstances. At an early age he took to the sea, and as a captain of the "Flibcote" he captured Spanish prizes, bringing them back to Dartmouth. He was to become a large landowner by his early thirties. In 1609 he received instructions to command an expedition to Virginia, mortgaged his property and outfitted the 'Sea Venture'. Legend has it that his heart was buried in St George's at his death November 19, 1610. He left no direct descendants."
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Oh yes, I am most definitely hooked! ;D
To be honest at 95 my grandfather has pretty everything he could want (including 5, soon to be 7, great grandchildren) so I thought a properly prepared and researched family tree would be a great gift.
LOL - yes and as well as the Pirates of the Carribbean reference, there's also Sam Bellamy the pirate (who may yet prove to be a relative!)
How funny - I found the Chris Robinson website too and I've emailed him to ask him if he would be prepared to share any information. Cheeky I know but he is clearly a man of knowledge!
Looks like, with Josias, I'm heading off into Cornwall!!! I don't think my grandfather ever knew he came from so many points of the compass!
Thanks so much for your help :D
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I knew that Somers had no issue - it's something i'd already stumbled across but I strongly suspect a connection somewhere as the name Somers crops up frequently as a middle name all down the generations, even to my great-great uncle and there has always been a family 'legend' of the relationship. I guess with the documentary evidence that I have found
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=T_kVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA271&lpg=PA271&dq=George+Bellamy+MD+Mayor+of+Plymouth&source=bl&ots=tWfT9Uol_x&sig=dgqQMlI3h80gXCYLnRTYqFwv4Ss&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cZQWUd2bM4uR0QWko4GYBg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=George%20Bellamy%20MD%20Mayor%20of%20Plymouth&f=false
the family legend is true ... now to find the connection ... still working back from Josias but looks like I may have to take a trip to Plymouth!
Any more info very gratefully received
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/index.php
An excerpt from Geoge Somers's will in response to a query about
"A 'Martha Somers,' said to be a descendant of the Admiral's, married a 'Thomas Penny,' July 23rd, 1764"
It quotes:
"Nicholas Somers, gent., his cousin and heir, aged 26 or more. Lady Johanna his wife still living at Whitchurch"
(who apparently gave the inventory of his estate)
-- ah, I had interpreted this as meaning Johanna was George Somers's wife, but I think it must mean Nicholas's wife?
"I, the said Geo. Somers, do give and bequeth to Mathew Somers and his heirs all that ..., and all other lands not bequeath, to Mat. Somers and his heirs for ever".
So it's not looking good for being a direct descendant of Admiral George Somers. ;)
http://www.thebermudian.com/past-issues/678
"There is one loose thread left to tie up in Sir George’s story: Matthew Somers, troubled teen and protégé, who carted his uncle’s body back to England to prove he was dead and thus claim his inheritance. Somers’s will left most of his property to Matthew, but a 1612 document reveals that Matthew’s older brother, Nicholas, was then in possession of most of the estate: apparently, doubts had cropped up about the authenticity of the will that Matthew had produced. ..."
"Nathaniel Butler apparently took Matthew Somers’s self-serving spin on the relationship between Sir George, Carter, Waters and Chard at face value, though, and allowed it to shape how he portrayed Somers as he wrote his history. We last hear of Matthew in February 1624 when, still in jail, he asked for his half of the £470 that the Virginia Company admitted Sir George had invested. The company told him that the investment belonged to Nicholas Somers, the 'right heir'; Nicholas was two years Matthew’s senior, and primogeniture in intestate cases bestowed all of Sir George’s assets upon him. In the end, Matthew got nothing. From beyond the grave (or rather, graves), Sir George no doubt approved."
So now where is this history written by this Nathaniel Butler ...
It's also looking like Matthew didn't have descendants either, but perhaps Nicholas?
You posted in between -- yup, I had got to Sam Bellamy the pirate from the Jack Hawkins wiki page, too. ;)
I have a great Armada tale a well -- my Bonds of Cornwall, apparently the ancestors of 007. (The motto Orbis Non Sufficit was theirs, along with a coat of arms involving a wingèd Pegasus, all allegedly lifted from a mural in Granada ... and of course we all know that is the Latin for The World Is Not Enough! Ian Fleming knew his Bond stuff, although he probably didn't know that the motto went back to Cornwall. Which it did, only if Victorian genealogists are to be trusted. ;) )
Ah, and a new post -- I'll have a look at your link!
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So we have Nicholas Somers being described in a document as George's "cousin and heir", but cousin could mean anything. He is also described as Mathew Somers's brother.
And Mathew Somers, pretty definitely his nephew.
And in the document you linked to (the footnote), John Somers is George's brother and executor.
So perhaps descent from John via a female descendant of John or Nicholas marrying a Bellamy?
All that FS has to offer are
Martha Summers marrying John Bellomy, Bristol 1733
Mary Summers marrying John Bellamy, Portsea 1719
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Gosh - talk about turning detective!
Right, well looks like a road trip is definitely in order as I have found a reference in the National Archives to a collection of documents relating to the Bellamy family, especially the good doctor, including ... and this is where it may get interesting ... a genealogy illustrating the connection between George B and George S!!! The documents are held at the Plymouth archive office, so in the infamous words of someone ... "Go West!"
I may also visit out local LDS family search centre as I should be able to gain access to the microfilms there which would have more details than they show on the website.
Wow ... it's all quite exciting really ... a surgeon in Nelson's army on one side and a pioneer in patent law on the other!
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Let's just hope it isn't one of those Victorian "genealogies" -- they really can get quite fanciful. (I have an electronic copy of The Bonds of Earth, actually written in the early-mid 1900s I think, and while it's fun, it isn't history. ;) )
But yes, it's your absolute first stop, I'd say.
Meanwhile, FS does have baptisms that could be relevant. Do an exact search for
surname s*mers
birthplace Devon
year 1550 to 1650
father nic*
and you get five baptisms for children of a Nicholas Sommers (too early for mother to be recorded) all in St Andrew except one:
Richard 1603 Ottery St Mary (quite possibly a different father)
Christopher 1616
Cicily 1619
Andrew 1620
Katherine 1627
You'll tell us what the tree says when you get a chance to see it?
Maybe someone here taking a trip to the DRO will be curious enough now to volunteer to check it out. ;)
(I'm on the other side of the ocean, or I'd be there checking out stuff of my own.)
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I am sure that there is someone out there with the information ... just a case of them seeing this thread!
Out of interest are you a bellamy too? Or just a very helpful person? ;D
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I'm just a very nosy person. There are many of us here. ;) (but I may be one of the more curious)
There's a learnèd journal article:
"Sir George Somers and his Family" by F. J. Pope
Bermuda Historical Quarterly 4, No. 2 (1947): 57-61
http://books.google.ca/books?id=lpv6uT4k47kC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=%22Sir+George+Somers+and+his+Family%22&source=bl&ots=u3ARs9iRTg&sig=uqwoCkVoy3RR-NSjxF121IejewY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YsAWUb2GIOzh0wGhq4CoBw&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22Sir%20George%20Somers%20and%20his%20Family%22&f=false
Index to the journal: http://www.angelfire.com/ny3/desltd/bmhq1.html
Snippet only: http://books.google.ca/books?id=vVIYAAAAYAAJ&q=somers#search_anchor
"Whether this John Somers was Sir George's father or not, there is at least something to be told about the mother. The will of Alice Somer, of Lyme Regis, widow, dated 1590, and proved in the Court of the Dean of Sarum in 1591, mentions as her sons or grandsons many of the persons described by Sir George in his own will as his brothers or nephews. It is plain that Alice was not in good circumstances. ..."
This digital library: http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/005615366
says Vol 4 is not available online due to copyright restrictions:
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015070279693
but click "find in a library" and enter United Kingdom for location, and there are five libraries that have it. Interlibrary loan? This link may work directly:
http://www.worldcat.org/title/bermuda-historical-quarterly/oclc/02386396
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Just to sum up what we do know, your Bellamy line is:
George born 1773
George (1749-1804) and Mary Burrow (1749-1783)
George (1713-1798) married to Mary Winnefred Forster (1712-1789)
Josias Bellamy (dates unkown) married to Gathred Mitchell (dates uknown)
Per the 1861 census,
Elizabeth Winifred Bellamy 1846-1929
(E Winifred Bellamy who, or whose estate, sold the George Somers portrait) was the daughter of
Peter Franklin Bellamy, baptised Plymouth 1804, and Mary A
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC9J-MH8
So Peter must have been a son of George 1773 (and Peter is or isn't your own ancestor, you don't have to tell us - if he isn't, he had a brother who was, presumably).
I see at FS there were quite a few Somers/Summers Bellamys ... including some who wandered off to Brazil. ;)
I had missed your reference to Cornwall re Josias - what is that connection? Cornwall is way easier to research than Devon, although before 1700 things may get spotty. The earliest Bellamy baptism showing at the OPC site is 1707:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/baptisms/
It does show 3 Bellamey baptisms (use just BELLAM to search the databases) in the early 1600s, and a couple of Bellamey/Bellamee marriages and Bellamy/Bellamye burials around the same time.
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Peter Franklyn was indeed the son of George (bornn 1773), so he's kind of my great x ? uncle.
As for the Cornwall connection ... well it would appear that Josias BALLAMY was born in Landrake, which is just over the Tamar River from Plymouth in Cornwall ... though I've yet to prove that's the right Josias. I guess we're looking at a birth date of between 1670 and 1690 or thereabouts, given his son George appears to have been born in 1713.
And an update! I have found the marriage of Josias and Garthread (Garshead) Mitchell on a local OPC (Online Parish Clerk) for Charles The Martyr in Plymouth - may have to drop them an email and hope they're feeling friendly!
And there was me always thinking I came from London and Kent stock! LOL
Curiouser and curiouser said Alice!
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Heh, I was exactly the same. My mum's father was born in East Ham c1900 (family came to Canada when he was a young child) -- he always talked about being born within the sound of Bow Bells -- and we knew his mother's father was a copper in Romford in the early-mid 1800s. So we had always thought we were genuine East Enders. It took me a long time to figure out who his father was (including the fact that his surname was totally fake), but it turns out my mother's paternal line is actually Cornwall and Devon through and through. ;) Same thing, straddling the Tamar and back and forth. The Bonds of Earth -- St Stephens by Saltash by the 1700s for mine -- and their alleged wingèd Pegasus and Drake exploits and all being one line of them. Things like a woman who was born in Lamorran and married in St Columb Minor, Cornwall, then had a child in Tamerton Foliot, Devon, who had children in Devonport and then settled back in Linkinhorne, and his (Bond) wife and kids then wandered back to Plymouth ... before they all headed for London.
Josias Ballamy son of Daniell, 1680 Landrake
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1425938
There are 10 Balamy/Ballamy baptisms in Landrake 1657-1680, all the others being children of Paul/Paull. No birth or marriage or other children for Daniell.
- edit -- but his father seems to have been a Danll. as well: buried 1677 Landrake with St. Erney
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1224267
Hopefully, your Josias's marriage record will give some info like home parish/place of abode that will help.
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LOL ... it's great isn't it! ;D
Turns out on my grandmother's side I stem from a long line of Irish who married across the border (North and South) and then had to leg it out of Ireland to Scotland and Manchester and on my Grandfather's, well ... it would appear a combination of Cornish and Devonian mariners/doctors, Scottish episcopal ministers (descended from a carpenter!) whose descendants ended up in London, causing a stink by marrying someone of another faith and heading south of the river and a south American/Portguese viscount who seems to have bailed out the King of Portugal!
And that's just my mother's family. I'm steering well clear of my father's family for the time being as they are all French ... which might complicate the research a little! Think I stick with one country at a time! LOL
And I also know I have family scattered over the US and Canada and Australia (a lot of whom are still living).
Thanks for much for your help ... I so appreciate it and if anything else comes to light, I would love to hear!
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Not sure if I can help but my Grandad was a Bellamy and we have the oil painting of Dr George Somers and his uniform (well my brother has his full uniform) I have one of his hats. I also have one of his hand written books of surgical notes. I am sorry to say I do not know the connection between Somers and Bellamy, but my Grandad spent his life researching his family history and my brother has a copy of the family tree going back to Dr George. My Grandad also wrote a book about his family, but it didn't get published, I think my brother still has the hand written manuscript, I think there is even mention of the pirate Sam Bellamy. I will get my brother to give me more details and update you.
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Ok this first post is for Janey - as promised the connection between Admiral Sir George Somers and the Bellamys of Plymouth:
John Somers of Lime Regis married Alice
Issue 1: George Somers 1554-1610 married Joane Haywood (no issue?)
Issue 2: John Somers 1559-1625 married Jane
John and Jane
Issue: John Somers baptised 1579 married Winifred
John and Winifred
Issue: Jane Somers married William Lymbry
Jane and William
Issue: Joane Lymbry married Solomon Andrew 1640-1701
Joane and Solomon
Issue: Mary Andrew married Thomas Hayes of Plymouth
Mary and Thomas
Issue: Rose Hayes 1710-1752 married John Cremer (Rambling Jack) 1700-1774
Rose and John
Issue: Peter Franklin Cremer 1733-1808 married Mary Bellamy 1741-1802
And Mary Bellamy is the sister of George Bellamy (father of George MD) 1740-1804!!!
And there you have it! Now, there is one caveat ... this is taken from a tree which I think I have now found to have a couple of flaws and I haven't validated the information but hope it helps :)
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Hi JoF
Thank you for replying to my post ... I would indeed love to hear any details that you have on the Bellamys of Plymouth!! I've successfully got back as far as Dr George's great grandfather but any more information on the family would be wonderful! I am descended from the Doctor's youngest son, John Cremer Bellamy.
Best wishes
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Hi, so we are definitely related :) my family also have a large portrait of John Cremer (1700 - 1774) known as Ramblin' Jack and his handwritten diary of his time at sea, which has also been published. I have the paintings of John Cremer Bellamy and his wife Theodora Mariana de Castro, daughter of Dr Miguel de Castro.
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There is going to be a parade for George Somers in Lyme Regis on 31st July 2013: this link shows his portrait:
http://www.lymeregis.org/news/life-of-former-mayor-to-be-celebrated-with-parade-259/
The Capt Bellamy re Pirates of the Caribbean is probably reference to Captain Samuel Bellamy (c. February 23, 1689 - Hittisleigh Devon s of Stephen and Elizabeth Bellamy (probably)– April 26, 1717,(drowned at sea). Better known as "Black Sam" Bellamy, 18thC English pirate who died aged 28 and earned the title 'Prince of Pirates' .....
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Hi, so we are definitely related :) my family also have a large portrait of John Cremer (1700 - 1774) known as Ramblin' Jack and his handwritten diary of his time at sea, which has also been published. I have the paintings of John Cremer Bellamy and his wife Theodora Mariana de Castro, daughter of Dr Miguel de Castro.
Hello,
My husband is also descended from George Bellamy via John Cremer Bellamy, we'd love to see a portrait of Theodora if you'd be willing to share it. Indeed, any pictures you have of the ancestors, especially Ramblin' Jack.
We have been to the records office at Plymouth, so have an extensive series of images of pretty much everything they had regarding the Bellamys. We'd be more than happy to share what we have.
Melanie
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Thanks so much for your message, JoF200666, the system won't let me reply directly, I think I am too new :-(
Any help you or Nap70 could give me would be just wonderful, my email address is
Ytyynycefn@aol.com
Very best wishes,
Melanie de Castro Pugh
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Melanie, did you receive the photos I sent you?
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the somers bellamy cremer connection is fascinating
we have in the Higham family (descended from Rose Higham nee Bellamy grand-daughter of dr George Bellamy) a small picture of Rambling Jack Cremer striding along in a tricorn hat and flowing coat with a "bill of entail" poking out of his pocket
but I read that there is another big portrait of him
I would love to have a copy!!
and contacts with descendents of the Bellamys particularly George David Bellamy, engineer, brother of Rose. who started the eagle soap works with my great grandfather James Higham. The adventure in the soap works was a mystery until an accounts book 1857 - 1859 turned up in an outside shed, kept as a scrap book by Rose from 1863
Richard Higham
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pictures of John Cremer Bellamy (1812-1854) - Son of Dr George Bellamy
Theodora Marianna De Castro, wife of John Crèmer
Dr George Bellamy MD (1773-1863) Surgeon on the Bellerophon
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Hi, I've just tried downloading the image files you kindly posted (I've been away from the family tree for a bit due to illness and my memory is shot to bits, so please forgive me asking again), but they don't appear to be there. Would it be possible to repost them please? Thanks so much,
Melanie
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I`m a newcomer to RootsChat and fascinated by the Stuff re Sir G S, and the Bellamys(my mum was a B), etc.. What I notice is the lack of references to Books! Just as G--y has been rev`d, so has the 2nd hand book trade, so many books are available at the click of the mouse, eg the biography of Sir G Somers , by David F Raine changes a name into a real live person! Love and Hate in Jamestowne, David A Price, sets the scene, Ramblin Jack, R Reynell Bellamy, contains Family Trees and was Jack`s autob. Try Abebooks!
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I have a copy of Ramblin' Jack (bought from a seller on Abebooks). It's a great read :)
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Hi George somers bellamy is my GG granddad on my dads side.
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Hi
My gran was a bellamy and we are doing the bellamy tree id love to chat .
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Hi Fiona, happy to have a chat. My Grandad Richard Bellamy wrote a book all about the Bellamys, so I have lots of information.
My email is (*)
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hi Thank you
No email its been taken down
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You can send a message to JoF200666
Just click on the symbol under JoF's name - looks like the page of writing in the circle, if you hover over it it will reveal "Personal Messages". In that way you can exchange e-mail addresses.
Good luck!