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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: brawd houdini on Thursday 21 March 13 21:29 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I have query regarding the Parish of Pencarreg,does any one know or has heard of the de Crespigny family and it's connection to the above.Also any knowledge of Rhosduon Tower,built by said family in said parish?Any help gratefully received.
Regards,David
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Apparently the de Crespigny family came from France around the time of the Revocation of the Edict of Nantes.(Annals and Antiquities of the County Families of Wales,page 707 at www.archive.org)
The ancestral line can be viewed on FamilySearch,genealogies tab,using search term "William" "de Crespigny"
Regards
Roger
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Hello David
You can read about the Family in the book Historic Carmarthenshire Homes & Their Families.
Kind Regards
omega
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Thank you both for your prompt replies,Omega-I have ordered a copy of the book and allthough I have already have the Cardiganshire companion volume never thought that this book could be useful too.Roger,again an useful reference at archive.org,it really is amazing what's out there in the blogosphere. Looks like I have some serious reading to do.
I feel I should underline though that it is the connection to Rhosduon Tower and the Parish of Pencarreg that intrigues me,as I believe that Rhosduon Tower[now demolished] was built on or near to farms that belonged to my ancestors. Further there is a tale that one of my ancestors was the illegitimate son of a De Crespigny! Lady Sarah de Crespigny has a memorial plaque on the wall of St. Patrick's church in Pencarreg and I believe that both her and her husband are buried here,but not funnily enough in a tomb.
Regards,David
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This reference,which you have probably seen,says Sarah's husband built Rhosduon Tower circa 1820.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0t9q/
Regards
Roger
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Hello David :)
I wont spoil things by telling you what is in the Book,but i know you`ll be thrilled :).Happy Reading.
I am greedy & have the Cardiganshire & Pembrokeshire Books :)
They have helped me with my research,especially my Posh Phillipps line
Kind Regards
omega
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Thank you Roger,yes I had seen the reference,there are a few things on google but nothing you can get your teeth into.Lady Sarah's husband left instructions in his will apparently that he should be buried in St.Patrick's but not in a tomb or anything grand but with a modest gravestone the same as most of the others.This strikes me as curious,on 2 fronts- firstly why did he want to get buried here and not where he had other lands and secondly why the plain unadorned grave?
And thank you too Omega,looking forward to the book,as you say they are addictive reading,especially if you have any family connections that are mentioned in them.I noticed you have Gibby listed in your family connections,there were Gibby's around Lampeter,Ceredigion at one time.I believe they lived in Llanfair Clydogai though not certain if this.It was a very unusual surname to have in that part of the world.
Regards,David
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Hello David
I have got back to 5xGreatgrandfather( Gibby Line ) from Wiston,then New Moat & llangolmam,Pembs. :)
There were a lot of them,went forth & multiplied :)
3xGreatgrandfather is mentioned in the Pembs Book.
I hav`nt as yet found any in Lampeter,but you never now.Found some in America.
Thankfully they were Anglican .
Hope you Book comes ASAP
Kind Regards
omega :)
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Thank you Omega,
The book has arrived,and as you say very interesting,next step,trip to Pencarreg church I think,as last night I also found out that my G. grandfather was buried there also,I doubt in the vault next to Lady Sarah but maybe out in the graveyard next to her husband!
The exciting thing about the Evans family in Pencarreg is you don't know what will turn up,and all kinds of odd things have happened.Still,I suppose that's true of most families.
Regards,David
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Hello David
Thank you for letting me know,i had wondered if the Book had arrived.Just knew you would be thrilled.
I love Grave Hunting,some of the Headstones are so informative.
On my 3x Gibby Greatgrandparents Headstone,it had her Dads name,daughter of the Reverand David Griffith of Llanglydwen,i just jumped up & down with excitement ;D
Hopefully you will find more info on Headstones to.
Kind Regards
omega
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Hi Braud Houdini/David
Just seen everyone's correspondence. If you are still interested... I have been doing a little bit of research on St Patricks Church for a friend and for a small local museum and possibly, if you are still interested, I have discovered where both Sarah and William are buried. (Not in the same churchyard at all)... also I am trying to discover where Rhosyduon Tower (various spellings) was or is. Did you manage to track down a copy of Sir William's will. What brought them to Pencarreg ?
Was up near Blaenpadernin Farm today, and I am becoming convinced that Rhosydyon Tower is one and the same place - purely because a heavy hint is dropped in a sale advert dated 1830.
If you're still interested I would be happy to share this info. Re Sir William's will, would I be able to find it online.
Cheers, from very close to Pencarreg !
Jen
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Hello Jen,
Sorry for the late reply,i have not visited roots chat for a while and it seems I am no longer notified of new answers to my posts for some reason. Since my first post on this topic I have visited St.Patrick's but was unable to view inside the church where I believe there is a plaque on the wall in remembrance of Lady Sarah. As far as I can ascertain she is buried in the crypt,as for William I am uncertain as to the whereabouts of his remains.
They came to Rhosduon Towers initially as there were funds provided for establishing lookout towers around Britain. The property is no longer there but the stones were used in the construction of Tower Hill farm[next to Blaenbydernyn]
My interest in these properties revolve around the fact that my Evans family lived here after the De'Crespignys and also that there is some connection between the two families.My ancestor Timothy Evans owned the estate and supposedly had access to the De'Crespigny's library before his purchase of said estate. He was a Surgeon and Apothecary and I guess had attended to Lady Sarah before her passing.
If you are local to this area and are researching connections you might be interested in knowing that the stones used to construct Rhosduon Tower came from the same quarry as the stones for St. David's college buildings in Lampeter.
I would be interested in seeing the sale advert of 1830,is it available on-line? If you would like a copy of Sir William's will pm me and I can send you one.
Cheers from some distance from Pencarreg'
Dafydd
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Hi Dafydd
Not sure if Rootschat is functioning these days... so I have send you a private message ... please post a reply here if you don't get this. Dearie me, AND it is raining sheep and goats, never mind cats and dogs !
Jen
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Dear Dafydd, messages seem to be functioning this morning...
Here is the 1830 advert...
Yes, I did know the stones were also used for the college (but have a suspicion that they stopped using them) - I also have an alleged picture of the tower, but failed to make a note of where this came from.
Would love a copy of Sir Williams will. He was buried in Camberwell, also in 1830
Jen
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Hello Dafydd and Jen
I also have Timothy Davies / Blaenbydernin connections (Dafydd - I'm a cousin of Welsh Maid,and I think she passed on to you some of my diggings into Timothy's parents). I'm interested in several of the things you've discussed recently in this topic, and wondering if you have more information you could pass on. The first is Dafydd's reference to Timothy having access to the de Crespigny library - do you have any more information on that, and where that comes from? The second is about what happened to Rhosduon Tower. Timothy Davies is listed as living there in the 1841 census, but at Blaenbydernin in 1851. Does anyone know whether Rhosduon Tower became uninhabitable or what led to it being demolished? Jen - any chance that you can share the picture of Rhosduon Tower?
Thanks, Deborah
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Hi Deborah, As far as I can make out Rhosduon Tower fell into ruins and the remains were either used as walls or gate entrances etc. Blaenbydernin is alive and well - I drove past a few months ago. I managed to find the alleged picture of Rhosduon Tower, but it is very dubious, and I failed to note its provenance so I won't pass it on. Lloyd, Orbach and Scourfield in their book on Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion (Buildings of Wales Series) describe Rhosduon Tower as a “castellated toy fort, long demolished”. (p 363)
Elsewhere it is described as being part of Blaenbydernin, BUT the adverts appear to be describing a separate residence from the farm and Francis Jones also thinks it was a separate dwelling.
Not much help I’m afraid... Hwyl - Jen
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Thanks for passing on what you know! Deborah
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The London Gazette, 10 Oct 1834 - page 1815
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/19200/page/1815
Welshnewspapers online
The Welshman, 11 Dec 1857 records the marriage of John Davies, Esq, of Rhosyduon, Lower Pencarreg.
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Thank you for the 1857 reference - I had no idea they continued to call it Rhos(y)duon so late.
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Thank you all for your prompt replies and interest.
Deborah your cousin has mentioned you several times,we are indeed all looking for evidence linking Timothy Davies our common ancestor and the De Crespignys.There are some papers which might hold the key lodged with the Records Office of Carmarthenshire,sadly it seems the Office is in some dissaray following some flooding. The collection are known as 'The Vincent Evans Collection of papers' gifted by Vincent Evans,a Solictor from Lampeter on his demise.It is my understanding that these papers contain details of Pencarreg properties,etc. which might be of interest. Though Vincent Evans was alive in my lifetime he took over a practice that was long established in Lampeter.
Hanes teulu thanks for jogging my memory I did know of these articles but had forgotten their existence. Yes I am I'm afraid totally dissorganised,I guess my family history report would read-'tries his best but is without organisational skills and is tardy to boot!!'
Diolch i bawb,Dafydd
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Croeso a phob lwc.
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Late to the discussion .... I have found a photo of a pen and sepia and black in drawing of Rosydyon Tower. The original is, I believe, in the collection of Kelmarsh Hall where many de Crespigny family pictures are held. The inscription on the drawing is "Rosydyon Tower the seat of Sir William de Crespigny Bt." The drawing is said to be done by Mary Catherine Champion de Crespigny. Mary (1810-1858) was Sir William's daughter.
Somebody asked about the burial place for Sir William. It seems he was buried Sir Giles, Camberwell according to a record retrieved from ancestry.com : Board of Guardian Records, 1834-1906 and Church of England Parish Registers, 1813-1906. London Metropolitan Archives, London.
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Thanks for flagging this up Norderney would be interested in having a copy of this photo if you have this in your possession.
Thank you too for the information re. Sir William's last resting place.
Regards,David
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Thanks for flagging this up Norderney would be interested in having a copy of this photo if you have this in your possession.
Thank you too for the information re. Sir William's last resting place.
Regards,David
I have written about the drawing in a blog post today <a href="http://ayfamilyhistory.blogspot.com.au/2017/04/r-is-for-rosydyon-tower-seat-of-sir-w.html">R is for Rosydyon Tower the seat of Sir W. de Crespigny Bt</a> regards Anne