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Family History Documents and Artefacts => FH Documents and Artefacts => Topic started by: arthurk on Wednesday 27 March 13 12:03 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone tell me what this is, please? It's varnished wood, with the owner's name stamped and gilded, and as you can see from the lower picture, the end stoppers come out to give access to a hollow interior. This doesn't go right through - the compartment behind the narrow stopper (on the left) is about 8.5" (21cm) deep, and the one on the other end is about 1.5" (4cm) deep.
The man whose name is on it lived 1830-1906 in Otley, WRY; he was a textile mill owner and prominent in one of the local chapels. It has been suggested to me that this item would have been used to hold some kind of scroll, but I'm not convinced. Any other ideas?
Arthur
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I've no idea what it is - interesting that the knob of the smaller stopper is small and the other is larger - ruins the symmetry of "the thing"
But my suggestion is that you search the British Newspaper Archive/ Findmypast or the Gale Newspaper Archive (possibly accessible through your local library service) for his name and dates from say 1860-1906 in Yorkshire newspapers. There may well be a report of a presentation, and it may say what he was presented with.
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A scroll tube doesn't sound a bad suggestion. Alternatively, it could have been used to carry some sort of delicate instrument, maybe a thermometer or hygrometer or something of that sort.
Mike
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Oops, I hadn't read it properly - the two compartments would seem to rull out a scroll tube.
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But a carrying case for some 2-part instrument seems possible. I have something much, much smaller for carrying sewing needles.
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Thanks for the ideas - keep them coming!
I'd wondered about a container for something in two parts, such as some kind of pen holder and a selection of nibs, but the inside shows no sign of ink or any other kind of stain, so maybe he thought it was too nice to use - or it was something else entirely.
I think the person who suggested scrolls to me meant it was for holding/anchoring them while they were unrolled and read, but the pegs and holes seem a strange way of doing that, and would no doubt damage the scroll as well. Also, why different size pegs and different lengths of compartment?
Arthur
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Hi,
I keep wondering if it were a piece of kit for someone who wrote parchment documents, so that the parchment were weighed down whilst being written on, and then rolled round the main thing to travel, and the nibs were stored in one end, and the quills were stored in the other - so it made a tidy and portable kit?
Best wishes,
Copperbeech5
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Sounds a feasible suggestion but where would they keep the ink? And if it is an object used in conjunction with the writing of scrolls, I would have expected it to have at least a few ink splashes on it. I wonder if it has any religious significance.
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A wild shot it the dark here but could it be a Masonic artefact?
Maggie
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A wild shot it the dark here but could it be a Masonic artefact?
I'd have thought someone of that kind of background could quite easily have had masonic links, but I haven't found any evidence of them. Nor do I know anything about masonic artefacts, but maybe someone could enlighten us...?
Arthur
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That was what I thought arthurk - a Yorkshire textile mill owner was quite likely to have been a Mason.
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My ten cents worth .... quill pens dont have nibs; you cut a 'nib' onto the end of the quill.
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If it was masonic it would most likely have the square and compass symbol on it I would have thought.
Carol
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The wider stopper on the right.... does that completely fill the 1.5" hole - it looks like it is almost that big? Is the stopper solid?
Milly
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Both stoppers go in about 0.75", and they themselves are hollowed out, so the wood forming the stopper is only about 0.1" or 2mm thick.
I said before that there was no sign of any ink on the inside, but looking at it again, there are some black marks and fainter red ones on the outside of the cylinder, which do look a bit like ink.
Arthur
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My first impression was art related...a holder for paint brushes or charcoal.
Carol
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So the stopper could in theory have a rolled up document secured in the stopper and then placed inside? So you pull out the stopper and the doc comes with it.
Not sure what the other end would be for though.. powder for sprinkling to dry ink?
I'm just making this up as I go along - I am not even convincing myself here.
Milly
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Or what about something like this - a sealing wax vesta holder. It has two compartments in it..
http://www.steppeshillfarmantiques.com/silver-and-porcelain/d/victorian-silver-combination-sealing-wax-holder-vesta-case-go-to-bed-seal/121665
Milly
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It is more like this circular ruler with pencil holder http://www.richardmole.co.uk/prodimg/TB104_01m.jpg
Stan
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Some really good ideas here. I liked the one about the sealing wax holder, but unfortunately the long compartment seems narrower to me than sticks of sealing wax usually are. Also, I'm not convinced about a wooden match holder - though I believe the chap may have been a smoker, so if he had his matches elsewhere...?
The circular ruler is the nearest picture I've seen. I tried to find out more about it on the site the picture came from, but failed; however, I did find a ledger ruler and pencil set - http://www.richardmole.co.uk/viewprod.asp?p=732 This looks even more promising - off to explore some more!
Arthur
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Looks like it isn't listed on the site anymore but this is what was there before on the google listing
"Circular Ruler with pencil holder - Tunbridgeware - A very pretty circular ruler, an unusual desk item. One end opens out, on a screw fitting, to hold a thin pencil."
He says that is what it is but we don't know he was correct - although he looks like he knows what he is talking about. Also we don't know how big it is.
That other ledger ruler thing you found looks interesting doesn't it? it only opens one end - I wonder what the other could be for?
Milly
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Another example here with a bit of info as to what a ledger ruler was....ie for underlining things in big ledgers (not for measuring things)..... which would make sense as it is heavy enough to hold the page down...and as a mill/businessman he might have had use for such an item.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0tkq/
and another that says it was for rolling down entries on the page to help with reading along lines (which perhaps makes more sense that the underlining thing)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0tkr/
Milly
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If it was a ruler I would expect it to have calibration marks. It could be a measure, ie; a specific length but you would need to know what length and what for. If it was, why the hollows and stoppers?
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Thanks for all the ideas - they've really got me thinking, and I'm now pretty sure it's a rolling ruler, or a ledger ruler. There are no calibrations, but if it was simply for ruling columns or other parallel lines, this might have been unnecessary.
I've now found a couple more pictures, which are so similar as to be uncanny:
http://agarichouseantiques.com/antique/product/unusual-victorian-rolling-ruler-reserved/
http://www.belowstairs.co.uk/acatalog/Measures.html - near the bottom of the page with the caption "Cedar Rolling ruler with Pencil and Easer R36" (sic - should be Eraser)
Mine doesn't have the eraser, but there is a stock of pencils with the same name stamped on them. If/when I find them, I'll see if they fit, and whether the name stamp is identical.
Anyway, thank you very much, everyone who has contributed. I'm going to mark this completed, but that won't stop any further comments if anyone has any.
Arthur
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OK - just found the pencils (well, my wife did :)). The name stamp on them is identical to the one on the roller, and they fit the tube perfectly. When unused they're a bit too wide to fit the hole in the stopper, but they could easily have been shaved down a bit to fit.
Job done, I think.
Arthur
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Excellent!!
You can now imagine him at his big desk working away at his ledger totting up all the profits!
Milly
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That does look very similar Arthur. Another mystery solved.
Maggie
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Excellent! What a satisfying result.