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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: WilliamKane on Thursday 18 April 13 21:17 BST (UK)
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I'm having terrible trouble finding her birth/baptism anywhere. She is listed as being 7 years old in the 1861 census but that's all I know. Her father? was William Cane (spelling varies on census and baptism records) born c.1829 in Ireland and her mother was Sarah Hall born 1831 in Diss, Norfolk.
The conversation can be followed here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,643233.new.html#new as it would be easier for you (anyone) to look at this, than for me to go through it all again. I hope that's ok as I really do not wish to appear rude!
Any help anyone can give me would be great thanks! While I'm here, there is also Thomas Kane (spelling, who knows?) and his wife Margaret, I have no maiden name, who were William's dad and mam and thus born in Ireland, in Thomas's case in c.1801 and Margaret's well, probably about the same time. These are the first of my family to cross the Irish Sea but I have no information on them other than what I've given and the family lore that we are from Cookstown, Co. Tyrone. Again, any help would be gratefully received, thank you.
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Familysearch has a baptism at St Marys RC, Newcastle.
Sarah Kane, born 15 Feb 1854, baptized 26 March 1854. Parents William and Sarah Kane.
Also in same church :
Thomas Kane, born 11 Nov 1855, baptized 30 Dec 1855. Parents William Kane and Sarah Hall.
Maria Anna Kane, born 16 Sep 1857, baptized 17 Nov 1857. Parents Gulielmi Kane and Sarah Hall Kane.
A marriage on Familysearch at Christ Church Newcastle, 13 Nov 1872.
Thomas Hedderly, age 24, and Sarah Hale Kane, age 18. Parents William Hedderly and William Kane.
Alan.
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Hello William,
could the birth be:
Sarah Hall 1st quarter 1854 Newcastle upon Tyne volume 10b page 25
best wishes
heywood
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Well, well, well! This is a mystery! I have Sarah and William baptising their children at St.Joseph's in Gateshead. Of course that was a few years later. Mary Ann for instance, wasn't born until 1860. That means of course, she's a different Mary Ann. W and S have form when it comes to naming children the same as their dead siblings. I have two Rachael's, for instance!
That's it you know? William and Sarah had a family baptised, maybe born in Newcastle and then another one born and baptised in Gateshead! Guglielmi (sp?) is of course the Latin for William.
I can't wait to get to those archives on Tuesday!
As for the wedding, no, that's not any of mine! Never mind though! You can't "break the case wide open" every time! :)
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Hello William,
could the birth be:
Sarah Hall 1st quarter 1854 Newcastle upon Tyne volume 10b page 25
best wishes
heywood
Yes indeed, it seems it could be! They must've lived in Newcastle first and had children, who died, in Newcastle first! What a fool I've been but not to worry, things are all of a sudden, looking up!
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Looks like you have a lot of archives work to do.
I was/am thinking that the marriage of Thomas Hedderly and Sarah Hale Kane looks promising.
Who did your Sarah marry?
1881 has Sarah Hedderly born abt 1853, Gateshead. :-\
Looking for Sarah in 1871 when she is not with William and Sarah snr, I see a Sarah Ellen Hall born abt 1854, Gateshead, as niece to Mary Ann Signey.
You mention the name Signey in your other thread.
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Crumbs! ha ha I'll get in touch with my cousin and get back to you! :)
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Apparently, that Hedderly/Kane thing is kosher. My cousin has looked into it and she says, "that's her". :)
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It looked as though it should be - Hall probably transcribed as Hale.
Were the other children registered with William's surname? Wondering if William and Sarah snr never married therefore all children registered as Hall but father could be entered on birth certificate?
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William and Sarah (Hall's) other children were called Kane or variations of Kane. At least that's the name they were baptised with. Therefore, William and Sarah MUST have been married. We're talking about the Roman Catholic church in the 1850s here after all.
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I'm not convinced they did marry (see other thread).
Maybe William was already married or something?
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William and Sarah (Hall's) other children were called Kane or variations of Kane. At least that's the name they were baptised with. Therefore, William and Sarah MUST have been married. We're talking about the Roman Catholic church in the 1850s here after all.
They may have been baptised with their father's name, that would satisfy the Church but I meant are they registered in that name Do you have any of their birth registration certificates?
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If the children were baptised in Newcastle, then it is reasonable to assume they were born there. However, I think they state Gateshead, do they?
The birth I posted earlier, fits with the baptism of Sarah.
There is a birth - Thomas Hall December 1855 Newcastle T. vol 10b page 11 which would fit with Thomas.
I can't see one though for Mary Ann. :-\
It would be worth looking for Kane variations also.
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I'm not convinced they did marry (see other thread).
Maybe William was already married or something?
No record of the event doesn't mean it never happened though. It is strange however. :(
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William and Sarah (Hall's) other children were called Kane or variations of Kane. At least that's the name they were baptised with. Therefore, William and Sarah MUST have been married. We're talking about the Roman Catholic church in the 1850s here after all.
They may have been baptised with their father's name, that would satisfy the Church but I meant are they registered in that name Do you have any of their birth registration certificates?
I don't have any certificates, no. Sarah Hall is called Kane in the baptism records for Gateshead, the church's records I mean. Her maiden name is also shown. That suggests to me, that they WERE married. It's just a case of where? and when?
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Another Newcastle St Mary baptism for you to look up.
Joannes Cain, born 28 April 1871, baptized 18 Sep 1871. Parents Guilielmi Cain and Sarah Hall Cain.
Regarding some of the baptisms being at Newcastle St. Mary RC vs Gateshead St. Joseph RC. They were living on Pipewellgate on the Gateshead Quayside in 1861, same street as Williams parents 1841-61 census, which you probably already have. Newcastle St. Mary is next to the Central Station and was probably not much further for them than St. Josephs which is up on Gateshead High St. Also St Josephs was built in 1859, before that they would have had to cross the river.
http://sjosephsgateshead.co.uk/history/
William's brothers and sisters were all born Ireland, apart from the youngest, Margaret, aged 2 in 1841.
Another baptism on Familysearch at Newcastle (doesn't say which church) :
Margaret Cain, 12 Aug 1839. Parents Thomas Cain and Margaret Macasbury.
Worth checking the St. Mary registers to see if its there.
Alan.
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Another Newcastle St Mary baptism for you to look up.
Joannes Cain, born 28 April 1871, baptized 18 Sep 1871. Parents Guilielmi Cain and Sarah Hall Cain.
Regarding some of the baptisms being at Newcastle St. Mary RC vs Gateshead St. Joseph RC. They were living on Pipewellgate on the Gateshead Quayside in 1861, same street as Williams parents 1841-61 census, which you probably already have. Newcastle St. Mary is next to the Central Station and was probably not much further for them than St. Josephs which is up on Gateshead High St. Also St Josephs was built in 1859, before that they would have had to cross the river.
http://sjosephsgateshead.co.uk/history/
William's brothers and sisters were all born Ireland, apart from the youngest, Margaret, aged 2 in 1841.
Another baptism on Familysearch at Newcastle (doesn't say which church) :
Margaret Cain, 12 Aug 1839. Parents Thomas Cain and Margaret Macasbury.
Worth checking the St. Mary registers to see if its there.
Alan.
I'm on it mate. God. I'm so confused!
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All right, well here's the thing,...... I discovered with everyone's help, at the archives today, Thomas Kane, born 11th November, 1855. Parents, William Kane and Sarah Hall. I also found, John Cain, born 28th April, 1871, son of William and Sarah Cain (nee, Hall). Finally, there was Margaret Cain, born 20th or 26th July, 1839 and baptised on the 12th of August. Her mam and dad were Thomas and Margaret.
Is anyone following this? :) Does anyone care anymore? :) I'm sorry folks, I really am but it's just my nature to try to find my family and trace them back to the "old country".
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Hi William,
That's good news. Did Margaret's baptism have that surname for her mother-Macasbury?
Heywood
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Hi William,
That's good news. Did Margaret's baptism have that surname for her mother-Macasbury?
Heywood
Ah, well yes but I think it says "Macartney".
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I thought it must be a transcription error- couldn't find the name anywhere else.
So that is a bit more information for you :)
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Yes. :) Another piece of the puzzle.
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There doesn't seem to be a marriage though for William and Sarah :-\
I keep looking but no trace.
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Does "conjug" on a baptism record mean they were married? There are loads of them, "conjugs" I mean. That's proof of a sort I'd say. It's puzzling. :(
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A baptism certificate usually has dad's name and then mother's name with 'olim' which means formerly - with her maiden name and them 'conjugum' which indicates they are a married couple. I think. :)
It isn't, though, proof that they are married - just that they say they are.
There doesn't seem to be a civil record of a marriage, unless both names are badly transcribed or they are missing from the indexes.
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Oh go on, rain on my parade, why don't you! ;D
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Just to say that my grandparents married in 1940s. Their children were born 1903-1911!
We found grandma married to someone else in 1901 (quite a shock). Apart from the first child who was registered in grandma's first married name, the others were registered with grandfather's surname and mother's maiden name (no mention of that first married name).
1911 census, they say they had been married for 9 years.
They waited for first husband to die before they married - a long wait.
Not everything is always straight forward ;)