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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => Topic started by: emjayf on Wednesday 24 April 13 12:35 BST (UK)
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Well now I'm flummoxed! I thought I had my Great Nan pinned down but the censuses don't add up! For instances he 28 in 1911:
1911
210 Northfield Road, Crookes, Sheffield
Alice Maude Beaumont (Niece) 28 Domestic Sheffield in Yorkshire
but then the age changes so it's incorrect. So ones I have for 1901 1891 and 1881 have her at:
273 Shoreham Street, Sheffield.
1901 Alice Maude Beaumont (Daughter) 21 Domestic Sheffield in Yorkshire
1891 Alice Maude Beaumont (Daughter) 11 Scholar Sheffield in Yorkshire
1881 Alice Maude Beaumont (Daughter) 1 Sheffield in Yorkshire
This might be fine but the 1881 census was taken on 3 April and I can only find an Alice Maud born in sep 1881. So now I'm not sure that I have the right Alice!
Can anyone see another Alice Maude Beamont in the sheffield censuses that might be 18 in 1901 and 8 in 1891?
I'm quite confused this end!
Thanks all :)
MJ
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Hi,
I think the Alice you have found at 273 Shoreham Street in 81,91,01 is still at that address in 1911
so seems not to be the Alice you are looking for, will look again.
Best wishes
Cathy
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The only way to prove which one she is would be to get her and my great grandad's marriage certificate I guess!
Thanks for looking and anything you can add would be gratefully received!! :)
Cheers
MJ
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Hello,
yes you are right re the marriage certificate - it would be best.
There is this one in 1901 which is likely to be Alice
4368/ 66/40
71 Arundel Street Talbot (or Tolbot) Hotel Sheffield
transcribed as Alice M Beaumot 19 yrs born Sheffield with parents William H and Annie. Although Annie is 32 yrs so :-\ and a sister Flora.
Have you looked at this family in your searches?
regards
heywood
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In 1891 3822/ 50/ 2
the family are transcribed as Reawmont.They are at the same address as 1901.
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Thanks Heywood that sounds more likely!
I shall look at this later.
Thanks again!
MJ
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Hello again,
Yes I would agree. :)
You should get birth and marriage certificates to support your search.
The Talbot Hotel can be seen somewhere on a photo on here (http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/09405a2/752EEA6ACDA985BB115D5E282A8476A6CB9A55CD.html) and there is at least one more- just search for Talbot Hotel, Arundel Street.
Heywood
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I've gotten her! Can anyone help with some of the handwriting? I've put question marls where I can't work out what it says?
Alice Maude Beaumont Household 1891
71 Arundel Street, Sheffield.
Name Age Profession Where Born
William H Beaumont (Head) 39 Licensed ???? ???? in Yorkshire
Annie Beaumont (Wife) 26 ???? in Derbyshire
Alice M Beaumont (Daughter) 9 Scholar Sheffield in Yorkshire
Flora Beaumont (Daughter) 5 Scholar Sheffield in Yorkshire
???? Beaumont (Daughter) 1 Sheffield in Yorkshire
Also in 1901:
Alice Maude Beaumont Household 1901
“Talbot Hotel”, 71 Arundel Street, Sheffield.
Name Age Profession Where Born
William H Beaumont (Head) 49 Hotel Pub Proprietor ???? in Yorkshire
Annie Beaumont (Wife) 32 ???? in Derbyshire
Alice M Beaumont (Daughter) 19 Sheffield in Yorkshire
Flora Beaumont (Daughter) 14 Sheffield in Yorkshire
?????????????(Boarder) 18 Draughtsman Felling near Durham
?????????????(Boarder) 21 Tables Liverpool in Lancashire
I think I've got the rest correct but would be happy to be corrected!
Thanks for any help in advance! :)
MJ
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Well done :)
This is what I think re the poor handwriting in 1891
He is a Licensed Victualler born Yorkshire, Street
Annie born Derbyshire, Greenhill
And last child is possibly Evelyne
1901
Hoober?
Greenhill?
Ernest U Howe?
Thomas Atkinson ?
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1871 has a William Hy Beaumont born abt 1852 Street. He is a grandson to John and Ann Ashley, living in Brampton, Yorks.
Then it becomes complicated.
1861 3511/ 23/10
The Ashley's are living in Brampton Bierlow. There is a stepdaughter Sarah Beamont, unmarried and grandchildren William and Harriet Beaumont.
Free BMD has a marriage 1841 for John Ashley with an Ann Beaumont on same page.
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The Hoober part is strange!
I couldn't find a place called that! Apart from:
Hoober Stand - a 30-metre (98 ft) high building situated on a ridge in Wentworth, South Yorkshire
Then I clicked on a link for the "Hoober Observatory" and saw it is a privately owned observatory located in South Yorkshire, England near to the villages of Hoober and Wentworth! So there's my Hoober!
Another look showed that Hoober is perhaps more of an area than a village with Hoober Hall to the north and Hoober House and what passes for the village to the south. Hoober House, which is the headquarters of Huthwaite International is tucked away privately in woodland. This was at one time a girls' finishing school.
Thanks Internet!!
Why William changed his birth place on each census I do not know - maybe “Hoober" was more glamourous than Street! :)
Thanks again!
MJ
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Hi I am back to all my family tree stuff and have been using Family Search to help.
Now I have Alice M(aud) Beaumont (age 9) on the 1891 census living at 71 Arundel Street, Sheffield. William H Beaumont is the head and Annie is his wife.
Now I think the following is wrong, but I want to double check! Family Search is trying to say that my Alice might be another Alice who was christened on Oct 1881 at St James Church, Norton, Derbyshire. The mother is listed as "Sarah". Now my Alice was supposed to be born in Sheffield, however she could have been christened elsewhere. I also concur that Sarah could have died and William remarried Annie before 1891. That seems too much of a stretch!
So can anyone see a baptism listed for Alice Maud Beaumont in Sheffield, with parents William H Beaumont and Annie Beaumont? Maybe a marriage too?
Thanks very much, people!
MJ
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This appears to be her birth entry showing mmn NEEDHAM
BEAUMONT, ALICE MAUD mmn NEEDHAM
1881 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 411
and her sisters
BEAUMONT, FLORA mmn NEEDHAM
1885 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 441
BEAUMONT, EVELINA mmn NEEDHAM
1890 J Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 444
On the 1891 census you mention there is also an Alice Needham at the same address on the next page
This is probably the parents marriage entry
Sep 1884
Atkinson Charles Sheffield 9c 657
BEAUMONT William Henry Sheffield 9c 657
HILL Mary Sheffield 9c 657
NEEDHAM Annie Sheffield 9c 657
Edit to add
William Henry BEAUMONT of the “Talbot” hotel Arundel Street Sheffield licensed victualler
died 16 Nov 1902 Probate 21 Dec to John Henry Lewin and Henry Storrs Wright grocer.
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Can't find a baptism for Alice on Anc*y if someone has F M P this could be Alice's baptism record
Beaumont Alice Maud
1881 Sheffield, St James, Norton, Yorkshire (West Riding)
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This appears to be her birth entry showing mmn NEEDHAM
BEAUMONT, ALICE MAUD mmn NEEDHAM
1881 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 411
and her sisters
BEAUMONT, FLORA mmn NEEDHAM
1885 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 441
BEAUMONT, EVELINA mmn NEEDHAM
1890 J Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 444
On the 1891 census you mention there is also an Alice Needham at the same address on the next page
This is probably the parents marriage entry
Sep 1884
Atkinson Charles Sheffield 9c 657
BEAUMONT William Henry Sheffield 9c 657
HILL Mary Sheffield 9c 657
NEEDHAM Annie Sheffield 9c 657
Edit to add
William Henry BEAUMONT of the “Talbot” hotel Arundel Street Sheffield licensed victualler
died 16 Nov 1902 Probate 21 Dec to John Henry Lewin and Henry Storrs Wright grocer.
Ahh thank you. Yes, years ago a friend printed me the census image for 1891 but I don't think we realised it carried on to the next page! Thank you for the dates. I will try and add them in now!
Great work. I did wonder if there would be photos online of past landlords of Sheffield pubs (I am still looking to identify a lot of old photos!) But nothing came up.
Thanks again
MJ
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This appears to be her birth entry showing mmn NEEDHAM
BEAUMONT, ALICE MAUD mmn NEEDHAM
1881 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 411
and her sisters
BEAUMONT, FLORA mmn NEEDHAM
1885 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 441
BEAUMONT, EVELINA mmn NEEDHAM
1890 J Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 444
On the 1891 census you mention there is also an Alice Needham at the same address on the next page
This is probably the parents marriage entry
Sep 1884
Atkinson Charles Sheffield 9c 657
BEAUMONT William Henry Sheffield 9c 657
HILL Mary Sheffield 9c 657
NEEDHAM Annie Sheffield 9c 657
Edit to add
William Henry BEAUMONT of the “Talbot” hotel Arundel Street Sheffield licensed victualler
died 16 Nov 1902 Probate 21 Dec to John Henry Lewin and Henry Storrs Wright grocer.
Wait I have just reread what you posted and saw that Alice (born 1882) was born BEFORE the marriage of William and Annie 1884? That seems unlikely back then. So it might seem that maybe William WAS married to someone else before the 1891 census? I wonder if the 1881 census will reveal anything?
Thanks
MJ
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Baptism
Alice Maud Beaumont
born 20-6-1881
bpt 2-10-1881
Sheffield St James, Norton
parents William & Sarah of Sheffield
occ of father hotel servant
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Baptism
Alice Maud Beaumont
born 20-6-1881
bpt 2-10-1881
Sheffield St James, Norton
parents William & Sarah of Sheffield
occ of father hotel servant
Their marriage maybe
Jun 1881
BEAUMONT William Henry Ecclesall B. 9c 332
Elliott James Ecclesall Bierlow 9c 332
FISHER Mary Ecclesall B 9c 332
NEEDHAM Sarah Ecclesall B 9c 332
Could this be William's first marriage - perhaps Sarah & Annie were sisters :-\
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Did William Henry Beaumont possibly marry Annies sister in 1881
Marriages Jun 1881
BEAUMONT William Henry Ecclesall B. 9c 332
Elliott James Ecclesall Bierlow 9c 332
FISHER Mary Ecclesall B 9c 332
NEEDHAM Sarah Ecclesall B 9c 332
Death of Sarah?
Deaths Sep 1881
BEAUMONT Sarah 20 Sheffield 9c 218
John
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Sorry Ladyhawk, red message did not come up
John
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Did William Henry Beaumont possibly marry Annies sister in 1881
Snap John my thoughts too :)
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Marriage
22-5-1881
Sheffield St James, Norton
William Henry Beaumont 29 bachelor hotel servant Sheffield William Henry Beaumont carpenter
Sarah Needham 20 spinster Greenhill Benjamin Needham scythe grinder
witnesses Charles Needham & Annie Needham
Marriage
17-8-1884
Sheffield St Paul, Pinstone Street
William Henry Beaumont 31 bachelor hotel keeper Arundel Street William Beaumont deceased
Annie Needham 19 spinster Arundel Street Benjamin Needham scythe grinder
witnesse Wilfred Palmer & Hannah Palmer
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Burial
Sarah Beaumont
age 20
buried 19-9-1881
Derbyshire Lane Cemetery, Norton
residence Doncaster Street
relative's first name WH
relationship wife
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Marriage
22-5-1881
Sheffield St James, Norton
William Henry Beaumont 29 bachelor hotel servant Sheffield William Henry Beaumont carpenter
Sarah Needham 20 spinster Greenhill Benjamin Needham scythe grinder
witnesses Charles Needham & Annie Needham
Marriage
17-8-1884
Sheffield St Paul, Pinstone Street
William Henry Beaumont 31 bachelor hotel keeper Arundel Street William Beaumont deceased
Annie Needham 19 spinster Arundel Street Benjamin Needham scythe grinder
witnesse Wilfred Palmer & Hannah Palmer
Great Comberton - that looks to be a match
Looking to see if I can find Annie & Sarah Needham on the census with father Benjamin
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Here's Annie with father Benjamin on 1871 census
Piece: 4667 Folio: 32 Page Number: 16
Benjamin Needham 38 Scythe Grinder
Ann Needham 37
Jane Needham 19
Charles Needham 13
Hannah Needham 11
Ben Needham 9
Annie Needham 7
Alice Needham 5
Elizabeth Needham 1
All born Norton
I wonder if Alice Needham age 5 is the Alice Needham with William & Annie Beaumont on 1891 census
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This looks to Annie Needham & Alice's 's birth entry
NEEDHAM, ANNIE mmn HANDBURY
1865 M Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW Volume 09C Page 260
NEEDHAM, ALICE man HANDBURY
1867 J Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW Volume 09C Page 287
and also Sarah's same mmn
NEEDHAM, SARAH man HANDBURY
1861 M Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW Volume 09C Page 214
Edit to add marriage entry
Benjamin Needham
Jun 1852 Ecclesall Bierlow Volume: 9c Page: 193
female names on same page
Ann Handbury
Ann Witheford
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1881 census
Piece: 4629 Folio: 22 Page Number: 3
Benjm. Needham 49 North Derbyshire scythe grinder
Anne Needham 47
Charles Needham 23
Benjm. Needham 18
Sarah Needham 20 Norton, Derbyshire
Alice Needham 13
Elizth. Needham 11
William Needham 9
Rhoda Needham 5
added
1861 census Piece: 3467 Folio: 25 Page Number: 3
Benjamin Needham 29 Greenhill, scythe grinder
Ann Needham 28 Greenhill
Jane Needham 9 Greenhill
Charles James Needham 4 Greenhill
Sarah Needham 2 wks Greenhill Derbyshire
1851c Piece: 2336 Folio: 397 Page Number: 3
Benjamin Needham 20 scythe grinder
Ann Needham 29
both born Greenhill
Benjamin Needham
Birth 16 Feb 1831
Baptism 29 May 1831 Norton,Derby,England
Father: William Needham Mother: Anne
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Is this the correct marriage?
Marriage
18-9-1912
Oak Street, Heeley, United Methodist Chapel
John Gibson Fouldes 27 bachelor railway plate layer John Gibson Fouldes tram car cleaner
Alice Maud Beaumont 30 spinster William Henry Beaumont deceased hotel keeper
transcription only
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Is this the correct marriage?
Marriage
18-9-1912
Oak Street, Heeley, United Methodist Chapel
John Gibson Fouldes 27 bachelor railway plate layer John Gibson Fouldes tram car cleaner
Alice Maud Beaumont 30 spinster William Henry Beaumont deceased hotel keeper
transcription only
Alice Maud Fouldes of 3 St Giles Avenue Boston Road Sleaford, widow
died 14 Mar 1964
Probate 24 Apr 1964 to J G Fouldes British railways leading porter
(added) - John Gibson Fouldes of 3 Sharpes-passage Sleaford
died 13 Mar 1952
Probate 28 Apr 1952 to widow Alice Maud
They had a son JGF mmn Beaumont born Sept qtr. 1913 Sleaford
Alice buried at Sleaford Cemetery
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/122907287/alice-maud-fouldes
Edit to add if looking for them on 1939 register
Sleaford
surname FAULDES
Alice M 1881
John G 1884
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Burial of Sarah 19th September 1881, wifes relative's first name W H.
Derbyshire Lane Cemetary, Norton.
John
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I hadn't named John & Alice's son at reply 28 as I hadn't found his death entry but here it is
John Gibson Fouldes died age 86
Birth 19 Jun 1913
Registration Date: Jul 1999
Registration District: Boston Lincolnshire
Register Number: 78B
District and Subdistrict: 6101A
Entry Number: 58
John Gibson Fouldes Age: 16
Grade 2 Porter
born 19 Jun 1913
Residence Date: 22 Jul 1929
Station: Pinchbeck
Company: London and North Eastern
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Baptism
Alice Maud Beaumont
born 20-6-1881
bpt 2-10-1881
Sheffield St James, Norton
parents William & Sarah of Sheffield
occ of father hotel servant
Interesting. I have Alice's grave (photo attached) and she died in 1964 aged 82. 1964 - 82 = 1882. That doesn't quite match the dates you found so I am guessing, when they gave her the grave, they never knew her date of birth and maybe she never revealed her age. My own Nan was always coy about her age saying "I'm as old as my tongue and a bit older than my teeth!" But there is so much that matches up in what you have found!
Thank you so much! So much to take in! My head will be dizzy now!
MJ
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Alice M Fouldes dob 20 Jun 1881 (1939 register)
Alice Maud Beaumont birth registration Sept 1881
1912 marriage transcription posted by comberton her age given as 30 (born c1882)
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Is this the correct marriage?
Marriage
18-9-1912
Oak Street, Heeley, United Methodist Chapel
John Gibson Fouldes 27 bachelor railway plate layer John Gibson Fouldes tram car cleaner
Alice Maud Beaumont 30 spinster William Henry Beaumont deceased hotel keeper
transcription only
Yes that is the marriage. Both this John Gibson and my grandad, also John Gibson,worked on the railway.
Thanks I don't think I had a full date before!
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Alice M Fouldes dob 20 Jun 1881 (1939 register)
Alice Maud Beaumont birth registration Sept 1881
1912 marriage transcription posted by comberton her age given as 30 (born c1882)
Ahhh so "c1882" is a rough placeholder. So that makes a little more sense. What was the 1939 register? Was it like a new census?
Thanks
MJ
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What was the 1939 register? Was it like a new census?
From NA
The 1939 Register provides a snapshot of the civilian population of England and Wales just after the outbreak of the Second World War..........see link
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/
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On 1901 census her birth year given c1882
Alice M Beaumot Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation to Head: Daughter
Father: Wm H Beaumot
Mother: Annie Beaumot
Birth Place: Sheffield, Yorkshire
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1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWK4-T8Q
John
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Did William Henry Beaumont possibly marry Annies sister in 1881
Snap John my thoughts too :)
Was that legal back then? I had a previous family member, John Foulds, who married a Mary Birch. She is on the 1841 Census but is dead by 1851. On that census John is remarried to Martha Foulds nee Birch. My relative wondered if THEY were sisters but he also pointed out that it was illegal to marry your sister-in-law back then. So I wonder what the truth is?
Is it also not strange that for the marriage of William to Annie he is listed as "Bachelor" and not "Widow"?
Another query is Alice Maud has the dob of 20 Jun 1881 (according to that 1939 register) if Sarah Beaumont (nee Needham) died around September (if her burial was 19-09-1881) do you think she died from complications from child birth? I mean probably not if it was 2 or 3 months later but it is sad to think she would never know her mother.
These are unexpected turns!
I know it's not important but I have added a photo showing a younger and older Alice Maud (always known as just Maud). It's nice to have these images. Wish I knew who they all were!
Cheer
MJ
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Burial
Sarah Beaumont
age 20
buried 19-9-1881
Derbyshire Lane Cemetery, Norton
residence Doncaster Street
relative's first name WH
relationship wife
Sheffield indexer has grave number
http://www.sheffieldindexers.com/
Buried on September 19, 1881 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 15, Section K1 of Norton Cemetery, Sheffield.
Map of cemetery shows section K1
http://sheffieldindexers.com/images/Norton_Cem_1.jpg
if Sarah Beaumont (nee Needham) died around September (if her burial was 19-09-1881)
do you think she died from complications from child birth?
I mean probably not if it was 2 or 3 months later but it is sad to think she would never know her mother.
You would need to obtain a copy of her death certificate to confirm cause of death
BEAUMONT, SARAH age 20
1881 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 218
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Not 100% certain as you need b/c or baptism to confirm parents name but it’s possible
Annie Needham was expecting a child with William Beaumont
BEAUMONT, ANNIE mmn NEEDHAM
1884 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 477
Baby Annie born around 7th Sept 1884
William & Annie married 17th Aug 1884
address given on marriage certificate Arundel Street
Baby Annie’s burial doesn’t name parents but gives address 71 Arundel Street
Beaumont, Annie (Child, age 2 days).
Died at 71 Arundel St; Buried on September 9, 1884 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 11896, Section X of City Road Cemetery, Sheffield
Map of cemetery showing Section X
http://sheffieldindexers.com/images/CityRoadCemetery_t.JPG