RootsChat.Com

Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: MissyJ137 on Thursday 25 April 13 10:02 BST (UK)

Title: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: MissyJ137 on Thursday 25 April 13 10:02 BST (UK)
Hi All,

I'm trying to find out information about the parents Honoria Anna BENTLEY b.1833 in Limerick. I have information about her life in Australia but nothing before she arrived in 1849.

I know she died on 29th November 1902 from her probate documents and need to find the index number for her death certificate. She changed her name to Henrietta had married twice, first to Albert BALZARY, then William LOVETT.

Many thanks,
Mel
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: Dundee on Thursday 25 April 13 12:22 BST (UK)
Hi Mel,

Is there any particular reason that you want her death cert?  Her marriage in 1875 to William LOVETT would have far more reliable information aboout her origins.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: MissyJ137 on Thursday 25 April 13 12:36 BST (UK)
Thanks for the suggestion Debra. I'm just trying to get hold of any documentation that might lead me further into my search in Ireland to see why she was sent out on the ship as an orphan or if she did infact have a living parent when she left. I knew I didn't have a copy of the death certificate as I didn't have the index number so thought it might have been the next step.
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 25 April 13 17:20 BST (UK)
Age is out but time frame right;


Australia Death Index, 1787-1985 about Hetta Leonora Lovett
Name:    Hetta Leonora Lovett
Death Place:    Malvern, Victoria
Age:    59
Registration Year:    1902
Registration Place:    Victoria
Registration number:    14534
Estimated Birth Year:    abt 1843

Someone must have some Certs, from a Tree on Anc;
Quote from Tree
*Parents THOMAS and CATHERINE, nee RYE
Fathers Occp Coachbuilder (listed on Henrietta's 2nd marraige certificate)*

Trish :)
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 25 April 13 23:30 BST (UK)
I'm trying to find out information about the parents Honoria Anna BENTLEY


Some of the names dates and places here are not sitting well!

Marriage

BALZARY Vincent Albt (b. PORTLAND)
BARTLEY Honorah (b PORTLAND)
Year 1885
Reg 4040

Death

BALZARY Albert Viscent
Father Unknown
Mother
Age 51
Birth Place HUNG
Year 1865
Reg   6476

Birth

BALZARY Edwin Albert
Father: Albert Vinzent
Mother  Honoretta BENTLEY
Birth Place LAMP
Year: 1860
Reg 15699


Death

BALZARY Edwin Albt
Father Balzary Albt Vincent
Mother Hentta Lenora   BENTLEY
MVERN
Age 81
Year 1945
Reg 12635


Death

LOVETT  Hetta Leonora
Father Unknown
Mother Unknown UNKNOWN
Age 59
Death Place Mvern
Year 1902
Reg. 14534

Marriage

LOVETT William (b. Middlesex)
BALZRAY Henrietta
Year 1875
Reg Number: 985
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: sparrett on Friday 26 April 13 00:24 BST (UK)
 Death of a sibling of EDWIN ALBERT BALZARY

PECK Eleanor Albertha
Father Balzary Albt Vincent
Mother Henrietta  BENTLEY
Death Place DUNOLLY
Age 77
Year 1938
Reg  14157



Sue
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: majm on Friday 26 April 13 00:25 BST (UK)
search in Ireland to see why she was sent out on the ship as an orphan or if she did infact have a living parent when she left.

I think perhaps that the 19th Century meaning for "orphan" was broader than the 21st Century meaning......  I think you could well find that an orphan in the 1800s was simply a child who was not financially supported by either parents (I believe this was due usually to the parents deteriorating circumstances) ....   I have quite a few examples of children aged under 14 who were in Orphan Schools in Sydney NSW from the 1820s and who were admitted to those institutions by their mother or their father....

The following link should take you to the NSW State Records Office index for Child Care and Protection.   Use the keywords "John Smith" and notice that there's several by that very popular name who were admitted to the Orphanages.   For example, there's a John SMITH, aged 4 years  admitted to the Protestant Male Orphanage School just two days after Christmas 1864.   The names of both his parents are listed on the index, suggesting both parents were present at his hand-over.  It is a Very Sad reality, but I see no reason to believe the broad definition of Orphan was confined to the then Sydney NSW based government administration processes. 

http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/searchform.aspx?id=74

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: sparrett on Friday 26 April 13 00:35 BST (UK)
Death Notice for HENRIETTA LOVETT lists further children

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0tp0/ 

The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1957) Monday 1 December 1902

Sue
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: majm on Friday 26 April 13 00:38 BST (UK)
There’s a lass aged 16, listed as Honora BENTLEY arriving to Port Phillip on the Pemberton 14 May 1849.  She was a House Servant, from Limerick, a Roman Catholic and she could read and write.

http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.asp?Page=NRS5316/4_4816/Pemberton_14%20May%201849/4_481600248.jpg&No=2     That’s a link to the NSW SRO’s passenger list showing that Honora.   (In 1849, Victoria was still part of NSW).

I think you would need more than just that page from that passenger list to confirm that Honora BENTLEY as your lass.    Victoria's marriage certs have so much depth of information on them, including where born, names of the parents of the bride and groom, etc etc.   I think as you have her marrying several times, that you ought to work towards obtaining the first mc.   :) to see what information Honora provided initially.   

Cheers,  JM

Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: sparrett on Friday 26 April 13 00:50 BST (UK)
There appear to be transcription errors in the marriages.

As above

Marriage

BALZARY Vincent Albt (b. PORTLAND)
BARTLEY Honorah (b PORTLAND)
Year 1885
Reg 4040


Also

BARTLEY Honora
BATZANE Vincent Albert
Year 1853
Reg Number 4040
Denomination: Presbyterian
Parish: Portland
Fiche: 1143
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: majm on Friday 26 April 13 01:02 BST (UK)
Death

BALZARY Albert Viscent
Father Unknown
Mother
Age 51
Birth Place HUNG
Year 1865
Reg   6476

AIGS Cemetery Index has Albert Vincent BALZERRY, aged 52 DD 4 Jul 1865  interred at Dunolly Old Pioneer.   

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: Dundee on Friday 26 April 13 02:56 BST (UK)
From information in online family trees, it seems that the BALZARY/BENTLEY marriage took place in Feb 1853.  This was before civil registration commenced and so would be a church record and unlikely to show parents' names or place of birth.

If the death cert. does state that she was aged 59 in 1902 then the informant obviously didn't do their mathematics, but may have worked it out from the age of the oldest living child.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: judb on Friday 26 April 13 06:39 BST (UK)
The girl who arrived on the Pemberton into Melbourne (or Portland) is listed on the Irish Famine Orphan Girl database, but not on the actual memorial in Sydney.
There is quite lot of general information about the Irish famine orphans on the site.
http://www.irishfaminememorial.org/en/

Surname : Bentley [Bently]
First Name : Honora [Honoria]
Age on arrival : 16
Native Place : Limerick
Parents : Not recorded
Religion : Roman Catholic
Ship name : Pemberton (Melbourne 1849)
Other : To Portland.

Judith

Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: sparrett on Friday 26 April 13 07:01 BST (UK)
From information in online family trees, it seems that the BALZARY/BENTLEY marriage took place in Feb 1853.  This was before civil registration commenced and so would be a church record and unlikely to show parents' names or place of birth.

If the death cert. does state that she was aged 59 in 1902 then the informant obviously didn't do their mathematics, but may have worked it out from the age of the oldest living child.

Debra  :)

Yes, as Judith has shown, she was 16 on arrival in 1949  1849 so 20+ at marriage.

The birth certificate of the son EDWIN BULZARY will not show H. BULZARY's parents' names, but it should, if completed correctly show her birthplace and date.
Sue
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: majm on Friday 26 April 13 07:07 BST (UK)
http://museumvictoria.com.au/immigrationmuseum/discoverycentre/your-questions/earl-grey-scheme/

"The largest number of orphans arrived on the Pemberton in May 1849 as part of the Earl Grey Scheme. 305 orphans disembarked from this ship after a voyage of 113 days."

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: sparrett on Friday 26 April 13 08:17 BST (UK)
Henrietta. LOVETT's husband WILLIAM LOVETT was 52 at death in 1882. So younger than HENRIETTA. Women often fibbed about their ages when marrying a younger chap.

LOVETT William
Father: Timothy
Mother: Maria
Age 52
Death Place DUNOLLY
Year 1882
Reg  8384

He left a will which reveals he was a miner of Goldsborough. All was bequeathed to Henrietta Leonora.

The AIGS index shows a number of LOVETT's buried at Dunolly Old Pioneer Cemetery -Timothy and Maria amongst them.

I believe William is interred there also, but as there are inconsistencies in the dating between the details of the will and those at the Cemetery, I will not list the burial.

Sue
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: cando on Friday 26 April 13 08:20 BST (UK)
There is a headstone for a Wm LOVETT at Dunolly.  Photo sent on request.  Wonderful service by Carole Judkins.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausvsac/Dunolly.htm

Cando
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: cando on Friday 26 April 13 08:39 BST (UK)
Henrietta. LOVETT's husband WILLIAM LOVETT was 52 at death in 1882. So younger than HENRIETTA. Women often fibbed about their ages when marrying a younger chap.

LOVETT William
Father: Timothy
Mother: Maria
Age 52
Death Place DUNOLLY
Year 1882
Reg  8384

He left a will which reveals he was a miner of Goldsborough. All was bequeathed to Henrietta Leonora.

The AIGS index shows a number of LOVETT's buried at Dunolly Old Pioneer Cemetery -Timothy and Maria amongst them.

I believe William is interred there also, but as there are inconsistencies in the dating between the details of the will and those at the Cemetery, I will not list the burial.

Sue

LOVETT William Born England  38 years  Status Single
Hospital record  9 Mar 1869
Occupation Miner  In Colony 15 years  Religion C of E
Dunolly Hospital Admissions register 1860-1900.
Comment Discharged 06 Apr 1869
Left from port of LONDON

LOVETT William 38 years  Single  Occupation Miner
Hospital record 15 Apr 1869
Religion C of E
Dunolly Hospital Admissions register 1860-1900.
Comment Discharged 26 Apr 1869

LOVETT William
Gazetted 13 Sep 1872
Goldsborough, Victoria
Victoria Government Gazette Pge#1719
Gazette item sub title heading: Shareholders Arcadian Quartz Mining Co

LOVETT William
Gazetted 4 Jun 1880
Goldsborough, Victoria
Victoria Government Gazette Pge#1275
Shareholders Patterson's Reef Quartz Mining Company

LOVETT William
Burial 28 Jul 1881     Dunolly cemetery register 1864-1903   Pge#24
 
Cando
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: MissyJ137 on Friday 26 April 13 08:48 BST (UK)
Thanks everyone. My great aunt started the research into Honoria and her husband Albert about 20 years ago before we had the benefit of online indexes. She had recorded that she kept changing her name on the different documents, settling on Henrietta for the majority. Most documents collected went to her daughter and I don't have copies, so am trying to go a little further into her parents and to verify the information she had collected.

From Aunt Jean "Honoria, who was sixteen years of age at the time, came on the orphan ship the PEMBERTON which sailed from Plymouth in England on 29 January 1849 and docked at Port Phillip on 14 May. She was received into a government-sponsored immigration depot on 26 May and left Melbourne for Portland some three weeks later. There she met and married Albert Vincent Balzary at the local church of St Stephen on 14 February 1853. Albert was born in Hungary and is thought to have sailed from Bombay to Australia on the RUNNYMEDE, arriving at Portland on 3 June 1852" (Jean notes that a number of subsequent certificates state that Honoria and Albert were actually married in Bombay but believes that was not so).
 
I downloaded a copy of Honoria's marriage certificate to William LOVETT and that had her parents listed as Catherine RYE and Thomas LOVETT BENTLEY (Coach builder). In 1875 she listed her age as 34 so the problem with the death certificate might relate to this. We know that she had the first 3 of her children 1853, 1855 and 1857 (no births registered) and 2 more (registered) in 1859 and 1860.

I also started a thread on the Limerick board to see if there was any evidence of a christening in Ireland or evidence of her parents in Limerick but haven't been able to find any yet.

I'll look into the LOVETT burials at Dunolly. I agree that Carol's photo's are an enormous assistance in trying to sort out people and dates. I didn't have much on the LOVETT's as we are decended from Honoria and Albert's third child, Eleanor Alberta BALZARY.

Cheers
Mel
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: sparrett on Friday 26 April 13 08:52 BST (UK)
The inconsistencies I mention are that the index shows a burial year of 1862 and date of 28th July.  There were no WILLIAM LOVETT deaths in Vic in 1862. So an error I think in the index.  The Vic index show 1882. The will gives a death date of 27th July 1882.

Sue
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: sparrett on Friday 26 April 13 08:59 BST (UK)
I downloaded a copy of Honoria's marriage certificate to William LOVETT and that had her parents listed as Catherine RYE and Thomas LOVETT (Coach builder).  

You seem to be saying her birth name was LOVETT!!

Sue
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: MissyJ137 on Friday 26 April 13 09:02 BST (UK)
Thanks Sue  :) Tired brain!
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: judb on Friday 26 April 13 09:16 BST (UK)
You said you had information about her later life so you may already have these:

Death Notice for Henrietta LOVETT, 1 Dec 1992, mother of Arthur V and Edwin A BALZARY, and Mrs J W WILLIS, and Mrs J E PECK.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/9067337

I wonder if this is William LOVETT and perhaps is the precursor to his death.
15 July 1882, report of an accident at Queen's Birthday Mine, Dunolly where the mine captain LOVETT was buried by stone.  He seems to have survived the actual accident but was dangerously injured.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/86284779

Judith
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: MissyJ137 on Friday 26 April 13 09:24 BST (UK)
Thanks Judith. I hadn't seen the article on the mining accident. It might have been a result of these injuries that he died as it is close to his date of death on 27th Jul 1882.
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: cando on Friday 26 April 13 09:41 BST (UK)
Buried at Melbourne General Cemetery Methodist Section L

In loving memory of
Henrietta L LOVETT
who died 29 Nov 1902, age 59 years
also her grandchild
Norma Iris BALZARY
died 18 Jun 1905 age 7 months.

Cando

 
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: cando on Friday 26 April 13 09:44 BST (UK)
The inconsistencies I mention are that the index shows a burial year of 1862 and date of 28th July.  There were no WILLIAM LOVETT deaths in Vic in 1862. So an error I think in the index.  The Vic index show 1882. The will gives a death date of 27th July 1882.

Sue

It appears there is also a error in the Burial Register.  It may simply be a transcription error from the register.  Wonder what date is on the headstone?

Cando
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: tiggatha on Thursday 20 June 13 10:26 BST (UK)
Hi Mel,

I am also a descendant of Honora Bentley and Albert Balzary (from Emily Louisa). I have been trying to find out more about Honora's Irish roots too, without much success, but I would be happy to hear from you and maybe we'd have more luck working together?

I have only just registered here (so I could reply to you), so I'm not sure how to message you directly, if I can.

Tiggy
Title: Re: Honoria BENTLEY b.1833 Limerick
Post by: MissyJ137 on Thursday 20 June 13 12:56 BST (UK)
Hi Tiggy,

I've sent you a PM.

Cheers
Mel