RootsChat.Com

Family History Documents and Artefacts => FH Documents and Artefacts => Topic started by: Greensleeves on Tuesday 04 June 13 10:10 BST (UK)

Title: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Greensleeves on Tuesday 04 June 13 10:10 BST (UK)
I wonder if anyone has any idea where this little chap might have come from and what he is?  He was found on the beach at Felixstowe about forty years ago.  He looks as though he's been carved from wood but actually it feels more like pottery, although he is quite lightweight.  Anyone got any ideas?  I really like him - he looks so happy.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Maggie. on Tuesday 04 June 13 10:53 BST (UK)
What a marvellous find, GS. You do seem to have a lovely collection of these intriguing wooden figures.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Maggie. on Tuesday 04 June 13 10:56 BST (UK)
Something similar here:-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-hand-carved-wood-monk-w-violin-figurine-/200908961692

.... although this one is descibed as wood.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Maggie. on Tuesday 04 June 13 10:59 BST (UK)
Pic from above link.

Moderator Comment: Image attachment removed for copyright reasons. Please refer to http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php  A message has been sent to image owner (on ebay) for permission to post it.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Greensleeves on Tuesday 04 June 13 11:56 BST (UK)
They certainly are very similar aren't they, Maggie.  Fancy you finding that!  I don't think mine is wood though.  I can see that he might have been painted originally.  I see that ad you posted refers to him as 'antique' but doesn't offer any other information.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Maggie. on Tuesday 04 June 13 12:00 BST (UK)
I noticed that.

I wonder how old he is?  It's irritating that they say 'antique' without giving an idea on age.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Greensleeves on Tuesday 04 June 13 12:04 BST (UK)
I know - ever since he was found on the beach we have puzzled as to his function: whether he is ornamental, or a chess piece, or part of the decoration from a church.  And of course how he came to be in the sea.  There is a lot of erosion along the Suffolk coast so of course he could have come from a drowned church, I suppose.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Maggie. on Tuesday 04 June 13 12:09 BST (UK)
Is he about 7" tall?  The one at the link I posted is 12" tall.

There do seem to be quite a lot of monks playing the violin on the web.  A lot are porcelain, some are of wood. 
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: groom on Tuesday 04 June 13 13:04 BST (UK)
What a lovely find, GS and as you say, a strange thing to discover on a beach. I notice that the one that is for sale has a spike on the cross bit at the bottom, so something is missing.

Here is another  http://www.ebay.com/bhp/anri-monk?_trksid=p2047675.m2392  they seem to be Italian. Possibly washed up after a shipwreck?
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: still_looking on Tuesday 04 June 13 13:22 BST (UK)
ANRI carvings, lots of information out there

similar characters under buddy sets on this site
http://www.anricarvings.com/

S_L
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Maggie. on Tuesday 04 June 13 14:54 BST (UK)
Am I correct in thinking that what we are finding are all wooden monks? GS is pretty sure that hers is of lightweight pottery.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Greensleeves on Tuesday 04 June 13 15:40 BST (UK)
Thanks for those links Jan and SL.  One problem is that the little fellow isn't made of wood.  He looks as though he is but he is made of some kind of light ceramic, I think, or resin or .... I don't know what.  I must get a decent photo of the base and post it so you can see what I mean.  It is almost like larva!
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Maggie. on Tuesday 04 June 13 15:54 BST (UK)
Sincere apols for breaking a rule at #3 .......... must be all this sunshine  :-\
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: trystan on Tuesday 04 June 13 15:59 BST (UK)
Maggie - you're a star. :) Hopefully we'll get a response from the seller (they're more likely to sell it if there's a picture of it on here too)
Trystan
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Maggie. on Tuesday 04 June 13 16:12 BST (UK)
That's what I thought Trystan ........ thought I was doing him a favour  ;D  ;D  ;D

GS - am I correct that he is around 7" in height?
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Greensleeves on Tuesday 04 June 13 19:11 BST (UK)
He is fractionally under 5" in height, Maggie.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: youngtug on Thursday 06 June 13 07:55 BST (UK)
When you say the base looks like lava I take it that it as broken open bubbles showing. This usually means that the object as been cast, and in things like this it could be plaster or shellac and some other sort of resin. If it was plaster I would go with plaster being most likely as the resins are usually used to fake ivory. It could be bone, the end of the bone can become spongy to look at.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Greensleeves on Thursday 06 June 13 09:23 BST (UK)
How very interesting YT - thanks for that.  It certainly looks like burst bubbles to me but there is a lot of wear on the base.  I think if it had been plaster the sea would have finished it off since it was actually in the water when it was found.  Any idea what sort of period they used shellac/resins for casting?  It is quite light - as light as wood - but it certainly isn't wood.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Lydart on Thursday 06 June 13 09:40 BST (UK)
All the sites quoted say 'vintage' .... what is vintage ??    How old is 'vintage' ??   

If GS's figure had been in the sea for any length of time, its suprising it isn't abraided by the action of being rolled around with sand and pebbles, so I suspect he wasn't in the sea at all or not for long.  But then why would someone drop him on a beach at Felixstowe ?   

He's a mystery !
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: youngtug on Thursday 06 June 13 09:41 BST (UK)
Natural resins, including shellac have been in use for a long time. [back to things like arrow and spear head making in prehistoric times,] There are more modern synthetic ones. If you mix synthetic resin with plaster it will be waterproof, not sure wether natural resins will have the same effect.

Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: youngtug on Thursday 06 June 13 09:44 BST (UK)
All the sites quoted say 'vintage' .... what is vintage ??    How old is 'vintage' ??   

Not old enough to be antique, antiques used to have to be 100+ years old to be antique. So vintage sounds better than saying "this old bit of junk" when it's up for sale
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Lydart on Thursday 06 June 13 09:45 BST (UK)
Phew !     So I'm vintage and not antique as my kids sometimes suggest !!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: youngtug on Thursday 06 June 13 09:46 BST (UK)
Running down to it ;D
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Maggie. on Thursday 06 June 13 10:24 BST (UK)
Quote
All the sites quoted say 'vintage'


But my link at post #2 desribes that one as 'antique' :)
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Sinann on Thursday 06 June 13 20:48 BST (UK)
There was an Italian artist called Eugenio Zampighi 1859 to 1944, his paintings appealed a lot to tourists it seems. He did a painting of a monk playing the violin. I wonder if this steams from that. Searching for monks playing violin you can find similar on mugs and egg cups etc.

http://artsalesindex.artinfo.com/asi/lots/4558291
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Greensleeves on Thursday 06 June 13 20:59 BST (UK)
What a nice painting, Sinann - wouldn't mind having him on my wall!

Regarding the discussions about my little monk being in the sea or not, I have just experimented with him, and he floats...... head down, bottom up!
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Lydart on Thursday 06 June 13 22:16 BST (UK)
If he's not wood but made of some sort of resin, is he hollow ??
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: youngtug on Thursday 06 June 13 22:23 BST (UK)
Natural resins, such as shellac are often bulked out with the addition of sawdust or similar. If sawdust was used in this case then it would be likely to migrate to the top of the mould, ie; the base of the monk. This could account for the head sinking. It may be some other substance though.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Greensleeves on Thursday 06 June 13 23:12 BST (UK)
As far as I know he is not hollow.  He looks as though he's carved out of wood.  I am interested about the possibility of him being resin, YT.  That would make sense as he is much too light to be pottery or stone or suchlike.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: youngtug on Friday 07 June 13 00:03 BST (UK)
Resin melts. Poke a red hot bar of steel into the base and see if it melts, if it doe's then it's a good chance it is resin. [failing the acquisition of a bar of steel try a good sized needle]
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Greensleeves on Friday 07 June 13 08:12 BST (UK)
Thanks for that YT - I'll try that later when I've got a candle burning and a needle at the ready.  I will report back!
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Maggie. on Friday 07 June 13 08:29 BST (UK)
Ouch!  Please don't hurt the happy little fellow.  :'(
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Friday 07 June 13 08:51 BST (UK)
Poke a red hot bar of steel into the base and see if it melts..

That certainly worked on Edward II.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Maggie. on Friday 07 June 13 11:34 BST (UK)
Oh Mike  :o

Dastardly Deeds at Berkley Castle. I remember my father telling me of that gruesome story - it's what got me interested in proper History other than what they taught you at school.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Greensleeves on Sunday 09 June 13 23:35 BST (UK)
Have now had a chance to try the red-hot needle on my little monk.  Looks like he is made of resin as the base melts when the hot needle is applied.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: youngtug on Wednesday 12 June 13 10:01 BST (UK)
Being made of resin means he is probably of low monetary value but I am sure you will treasure him anyway.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: groom on Wednesday 12 June 13 10:51 BST (UK)
It would still be great to find his history, what a story that could make - what happened to cause him to be washed up on a Suffolk beach.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Maggie. on Wednesday 12 June 13 11:17 BST (UK)
Wonder how old he I - do we know that?
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: youngtug on Wednesday 12 June 13 12:04 BST (UK)
If it is made from a synthetic resin then probably 20th century. If however it was made from a naturally occurring resin then it could be much older, and also could have a much higher monetary value, depending on who made it and when.
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Maggie. on Wednesday 12 June 13 12:52 BST (UK)
So what's the test for synthetic resin?
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: youngtug on Wednesday 12 June 13 15:43 BST (UK)
Have no idea but it probably involves ££££££s
Title: Re: Happy musical monk.
Post by: Greensleeves on Thursday 13 June 13 09:32 BST (UK)
I think I will just have to accept that we will never know where he came from and how he ended up on the shoreline near Felixstowe Docks!  But thanks for your input everyone.  I have learnt that he is made of resin and that there are others about very similar to him.